Healing ninja woes.....GO!

I understand the Ninja class is new. There are many who do not understand how it works, myself included. What I do see though is in my runs, they are generally the first to fall. Multiple times. I have had a couple that really hold their own, but for the most part they just.......die all the time (i.e. not dodging anything).

When I see ninjas in my party, I generally dread it (last night though I had an awesome one that earned my comm at the end!). Any other healers have a similar experience with the ninjas currently here?

EDIT: The class is fine overall, as I have said I have seen a couple of awesome ninjas.

I really don't see the problem with the class. The players who happen to play the ninja class, however, seems to be a much bigger issue.

I've never really had an issue with Nin, well no more than other DD classes. If they are pants on the head stupid they will get destroyed if not then sit back and watch them melt face.

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Originally Posted by Rev1170

I've never really had an issue with Nin, well no more than other DD classes. If they are pants on the head stupid they will get destroyed if not then sit back and watch them melt face.

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Oh.....I do......

but that's really for any player with panty-head syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

I really don't see the problem with the class. The players who happen to play the ninja class, however, seems to be a much bigger issue.

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That's what I should have worded it like.....that's what I meant. Will edit

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Originally Posted by erkhardt

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I dunno if you are referring mostly at endgame contents or just dungeons in general...

but anyway, it kinda depends on WHO plays what.
I've seen so many players with so many different classes failing so miserabily that it hurts....
and I've seen players playing different classes with great skills and ability.

Ninjas have the negative point to attract every naruto nerds.
they are not better not worse then LOLDRGs.

Ninja job is actually fun to play..
I happened to solo something like the last 20% hp of Lady Amadine in Haukke Manor Easy, using the ninja xD
it's so good to jump around casters making them interrupt their spells, while still atttacking like crazy xDD

you just have to look at the screen and see that giant orange aoe, and dodge it.

Well, if anything is linked to the job itself, it's the aoe "rotation". Death Blossom requires you to be right in the middle of things, players inexperienced with dealing with that are prone to getting caught in aoe.

Players new the class will die every once in a while from assassinate and tunnel visioning their rotation. They have a really similar rotation to DRGs (for the most part) but have the added complication of using Mudras. When a NIN is focusing on completing Mudras and they are confident with it yet, they will tend to ignore the battle to make sure they get it off, as ninjitsu is a huge part of NIN dps.

Valid points guys, so it's in the design of the rotation that makes it difficult to dodge while in the heat of things. Just trying to understand it a bit, ya know? Maybe I should play it a bit myself to further understand it's inner workings as well!

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Originally Posted by erkhardt

Any other healers have a similar experience with the ninjas currently here?

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All.... the time...... just like you, I see a few here and there that don't have this sudden high rate of suicidal tendencies, but.... I always see them either taking massive damage all the time or are the first to drop like a sack of potatoes. Almost always.

Edit> I'd read down more - makes some sense

whenever I get into a roulette, esp trials, with nins I know it will be trying. I have yet to see a nin survive ifrit, garuda, titan or mog in my daily trials. In fact when I entered with 3 nins and myself on smn as the only dps I knew it was going to be awful and sure enough barely past heart phase on titan I was the last dps standing. I would love love love to see a nin survive a hm primal fight with no deaths...just once.

But that's FATE leveling for ya.

I never could get into the FATE leveling scene. It's just way too drab for me!

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Originally Posted by erkhardt

Valid points guys, so it's in the design of the rotation that makes it difficult to dodge while in the heat of things. Just trying to understand it a bit, ya know? Maybe I should play it a bit myself to further understand it's inner workings as well!

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Not just the rotation, what the last guy was saying is there's an animation lock for a brief moment in NIN's version of Mercy Stroke. If you hit that and right after an aoe indicator pops up, you're likely to get hit by it.

(Although there's a brief point in that animation lock where things will miss you like you're not there. It's more when that's passed and then the aoe goes off you get hit.)

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Not just the rotation, what the last guy was saying is there's an animation lock for a brief moment in NIN's version of Mercy Stroke. If you hit that and right after an aoe indicator pops up, you're likely to get hit by it.

(Although there's a brief point in that animation lock where things will miss you like you're not there. It's more when that's passed and then the aoe goes off you get hit.)

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Is it similar to DRG and the jump action?

Yes, except I haven't played DRG lately and they made it quicker so idk how current jump compares, and there was no point in jump where things would miss you.

Well no I haven't had any problems with them and I went in a Ninja only dungeon group and beat Wanderer's Palace with them (no proof but still) they just must have been a bad few that you got.

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Originally Posted by IceSpear

Well no I haven't had any problems with them and I went in a Ninja only dungeon group and beat Wanderer's Palace with them (no proof but still) they just must have been a bad few that you got.

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No proof then it is not true!

Having gotten my NIN to 50 I can honestly say most will go in guns blazing into the first pull. As any bard or black mage can tell you, this is idiotic and you will end up pulling hate because the tank has probably only hit the poor thing all of once. Initial NIN burst damage with cooldowns up, trick/sneak attack and their basic combo can do some nasty damage. At the same time it almost always mean they will pull aggro.

It's more or less the player though, they don't wait for the initial combo from the tank before they start attacking (other classes are known for this as well though). Since NIN is the new class, everyone is playing it, so you'll see a fair amount who could care less about aggro mechanics and just want to kill things as fast as possible, regardless how many times they die.

They really only have one move that would lock them in place so they couldn't dodge a Red Circle so to speak, but the cooldown is long enough that they should be able to dodge all the other things typical enemies throw out. I would chalk it up to inexperience as a melee dps more then anything. Those who weren't interested in playing a Monk or Dragoon, probably wanted to try out Ninja instead, and as is the case with most MMORPG's, melee dps get screwed heavily on most fights.

I'm leveling my nin currently, but been also helping my fiancee catch up a tank to it(stopped at 30) so been running healer. I've seen what your talking about OP, and as I ran MogHM and watched two nin drop like flies the first attempt (at least 60% of party had never done it before) it was a moment of ><


As leveling a nin, I can say there is a point for many who've never ran a melee class through content before, I'm one of them. I just commented yesterday about being afraid of Titan HM for my relic (as that thing murders me as sch/smn) I've noticed several easy mechanics/pulls etc that were more difficult because I wasn't ranged. Having just gotten my ninjutsu though, I can already tell there will be moments of attention pause at higher levels until the combos have been memorized for the murdas wanted.

I've also noticed many ROG/NIN hitting 30 on their first job; many I've seen later in towns/housing as 50s. This can cause the inexperience to skyrocket because most players expect that the content is on farm, when there are many people still trying to learn the mechanics to the bosses etc.

Just a few things I've noticed/experienced since nin came out, my lala (50brd) has actually watched NIN run into a boss while tank is casting stoneskin on himself (either healer wasn't/didnt have it available yet lol) and drop in a single hit. So, even still with everything else...there is a "unthinking" issue too.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Players new the class will die every once in a while from assassinate and tunnel visioning their rotation. They have a really similar rotation to DRGs (for the most part) but have the added complication of using Mudras. When a NIN is focusing on completing Mudras and they are confident with it yet, they will tend to ignore the battle to make sure they get it off, as ninjitsu is a huge part of NIN dps.

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When mudras/ ninjitsu activation lags... You know ur gonna have a bad time as nin.
"Hey yo buddy guy, what's with the bunny on ur head. Most importantly where the hell is ur mudra buffs? "
" sorry man i'm lagging "
( replenish ranks? 0/1 healer 0/1 tank)
( vote abandon? )
" you have left the dungeon "

The main issue with most ninja's survivability is overestimating our dodge ability (we get a permanent movement speed buff) and pulling too much aggro too fast (we don't have any aggro management skills, that coupled with high skill speed is bad news). As others have stated the animation lock from assassinate is also a killer for our kind, it's easy to get locked into a thought process and use it at a bad time resulting in you being locked in an AOE.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

As others have stated the animation lock from assassinate is also a killer for our kind, it's easy to get locked into a thought process and use it at a bad time resulting in you being locked in an AOE.

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Other than my own stupidity, that's the only time that I felt like there was a weakness in the class. Unlike most Ninjas, you won't see me standing at the beginning of a fight charging a mudra. I'm not even sure why most of them do that, because by the time most fight start, the timing of its use is gone and the cd period has begun. There's no right way to start every fight. If its a trash mob, I'll give the tank a second to round things up and hit it with Katon then drop DOT's and then focus on one target. I do this as a bard too. It works and I rarely pull aggro. Most of the time, by the time I get back to target one, it's near dead or I can drop another Katon and do a few basic attacks to finish things up. If it's a focus target event where a certain target is the healer or something can't be hurt until it's dead, I give everything I have to it, no differently than anyone else in the party/raid. More often than not, I see BLM's take aggro (if they are in the party) before I do.

I think the biggest thing is that many NIN players aren't used to being in a melee position. They were healers or ranged DPS, and they haven't really dropped themselves onto the nose of a boss. Take your trials for instance. If they hadn't really paid attention to what they should dodge before, they might not be ready to get out of the way when the time comes. Aside from Assassinate, there's really no reason for a NIN not to be quick on his or her toes. I know that my first time in ST as a NIN was an eye opener when attacking Schylla. I couldn't believe the amount of AOE in the center of that room! After a couple of OW moments, I got my crap together, and I've been commended several times as a result. I actually had someone type "You're an excellent Ninja, you know exactly when to stun" when taking out Tailspin in Sastasha hard. Like many of you might say, "Yeah, that's what anyone with stun is supposed to do", but I'm guessing they had seen too many misses or lacks of attempts in the past. The idea there is to wait for one or two attempts so that the scorpion is not resistant when things get tough on the healer toward the end.

Let's face it, I've seen many melee DPS go down as a result of not getting out of the way. That's why most people start as a tank if they want melee or go ranged.

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

I'm leveling my nin currently, but been also helping my fiancee catch up a tank to it(stopped at 30) so been running healer. I've seen what your talking about OP, and as I ran MogHM and watched two nin drop like flies the first attempt (at least 60% of party had never done it before) it was a moment of ><


As leveling a nin, I can say there is a point for many who've never ran a melee class through content before, I'm one of them. I just commented yesterday about being afraid of Titan HM for my relic (as that thing murders me as sch/smn) I've noticed several easy mechanics/pulls etc that were more difficult because I wasn't ranged. Having just gotten my ninjutsu though, I can already tell there will be moments of attention pause at higher levels until the combos have been memorized for the murdas wanted.

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Hey hey hey,

Finally a Levi player! Add me to your friends list, I would be glad to lend a hand, WHM or MNK!

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

I actually had someone type "You're an excellent Ninja, you know exactly when to stun" when taking out Tailspin in Sastasha hard. Like many of you might say, "Yeah, that's what anyone with stun is supposed to do", but I'm guessing they had seen too many misses or lacks of attempts in the past.
Let's face it, I've seen many melee DPS go down as a result of not getting out of the way. That's why most people start as a tank if they want melee or go ranged.

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Haha, I hear you. I am very quick to commend a NIN that never dies in runs that I heal, I understand that everyone will PROBABLY get hit with something, but if you don't drop before I need to scramble to keep one alive, I am impressed! The class is new and people are playing them that are not used to melee type classes. This is probably the closest statement that I feel is most true! When the ninja hype dies down a bit, I'll give it a go myself. Mained a MNK so I think I'll be good to go.

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Originally Posted by erkhardt

Hey hey hey,

Finally a Levi player! Add me to your friends list, I would be glad to lend a hand, WHM or MNK!

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Will do when I get home from work! :) I was gonna wait for nin hype to die down but was just starting a new class to level and as I keep battle classes to 15 instead of 1 burned ROG up and didn't want to stop >< there goes getting brd up next lol

I have had a few very good ninjas but most I've had to put some cure bombs on, I wonder why they take so much more damage than other melees when they don't have to be in position for a lot of things..maybe I'll learn that as I finish off my ninja.

Mudra lag can be a killer for NIN's when you are trying to aim for the right jutsu, you know you pressed it but it doesn't go off, it can throw off the flow and make them more prone to get hit.

Then also assassinate causing them to stay in place for a bit so if you use it just before an AOE odds are you are getting hit.

Other things are the eagerness to get the most out of the 10 seconds trick attack vulnerability or even being unaware as to what works and doesn't work with Perfect Dodge.

Overall it's a learning experience still, the job is new and of course players are going to die because mudras do throw in a dynamic that has not been seen in other jobs. No other job has a combo where if you don't do anything for 5 seconds you not only lose it but have to wait out the timer of 20 seconds before you can combo again, so wanting to get the jutsu done as quick as possible it crucial. The other reason is because as you perform a jutsu you can't be anything else other than mudras so during those 5 second windows all you can do is a mudra, when you're trying to run from an AOE and maximize dmg you try to cast mudra on the run and potential slip ups can happen cause you aren't use to the movement yet.

Also the way each person performs a mudra, if one uses an ctr+1 2 3, or alt+1 2 3 then it's harder for them to move their hands into being able to move their character away from combat plus they have the added disability of being unable to perform mudras on the move unless they switch to mouse to finish it or just use the mouse to perform mudras.

Personally I use mouse clicks to perform the mudras so I can move in case I need to while using a custom key ` to fire off the jutsu with ease. The only issue comes when a click doesn't register causing the flow of the jutsu to be off, sometimes casting the wrong thing and other times ruining the jutsu completely because I get to eager to go back to the attack rotation.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

I really don't see the problem with the class. The players who happen to play the ninja class, however, seems to be a much bigger issue.

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So are they the FFXIV version of WoW's huntards?

I honestly hated ninja's, and how squishy they were.... until today when healing Turn 7... we had 4 ninjas, 2 warriors, me (sch) and my friend (whm) 4 melee on that fight is fast as hell, and with fireball only hitting us and me kiting and healing it was easier to mitigate damage and did i mention the speed with ninjas? fastest one shot of my life.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

I really don't see the problem with the class. The players who happen to play the ninja class, however, seems to be a much bigger issue.

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This. So much this. Class might be new, but the principles remain the same. Stuff pops up on ground and Healer didn't put it there, MOVE! Everyone else taking cover behind crystal...nahhh. Cut chu with my knife, mang!