An idea to make echo better.

Instead of buffing players 5% or 10%.

Could we increase cast time on Mob attacks by 5%-10%.

This would solve lag issue for people that no matter how much HP you give them they still get hit by some attacks.

If you are talking about something like Titan EX... -> remember rotation. Start running 0.5 second before you see it casting.

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Originally Posted by Metabug

If you are talking about something like Titan EX... -> remember rotation. Start running 0.5 second before you see it casting.

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*creates Micky Mouse Plumes*

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Instead of buffing players 5% or 10%.

Could we increase cast time on Mob attacks by 5%-10%.

This would solve lag issue for people that no matter how much HP you give them they still get hit by some attacks.

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No, because that would completely throw off the rhythm of the fight for people who don't need a crutch to kill it, and you can't 'click off' the buff if its on the boss.

Why not a movement speed buff?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, because that would completely throw off the rhythm of the fight for people who don't need a crutch to kill it, and you can't 'click off' the buff if its on the boss.

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This.

Also, I've seen T5 runs where 4 dps in i100+ gear with echo have been unable to dps the snakes in time... Now try it without echo boosting their damage.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

Also, I've seen T5 runs where 4 dps in i100+ gear with echo have been unable to dps the snakes in time... Now try it without echo boosting their damage.

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That. . .that's just sad.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

That. . .that's just sad.

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Sad? why u sadden over such terribad peeps who gonna shout NERF x 1000?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

That. . .that's just sad.

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And extremely common.

Probably the best thing would be to remove OHNoKO cheap moves from bosses, instead, it reduces your HP to 10% and you can potentially die from the next hit if your healer is not fast enough. No more "ZINGBYE" leaping out from the platform out of reach from raise...

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Probably the best thing would be to remove OHNoKO cheap moves from bosses, instead, it reduces your HP to 10% and you can potentially die from the next hit if your healer is not fast enough. No more "ZINGBYE" leaping out from the platform out of reach from raise...

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Yes, put more load on the healers and then blame everything on the healers for not correcting your mistakes when you get yourself killed after screwing up a second time shortly after the first one. Exactly what we need in this game. More pressure on the healers instead of everybody having some responsibility on their own survival. We have too many healers and not enough dps anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Why not a movement speed buff?

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This would be a good addition to the Echo. Add a movement speed buff, and echo suddenly becomes more valuable for some fights (ie Titan).

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This would be a good addition to the Echo. Add a movement speed buff, and echo suddenly becomes more valuable for some fights (ie Titan).

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It's already plenty valuable, and all encounters with echo can have mechanics ignored already. Have you considered practicing and trying to dodge things, instead of waiting for the game to hold your hand?

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Probably the best thing would be to remove OHNoKO cheap moves from bosses, instead, it reduces your HP to 10% and you can potentially die from the next hit if your healer is not fast enough. No more "ZINGBYE" leaping out from the platform out of reach from raise...

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Which would just make bad DPS say when asked why they died, "No heals QQ"
Nope, as much as I detest the easy ways that you can be one shot killed by pretty much anything, leaving it to a healer to rescue them from even more mistakes is not cool.

Peeps need to manage themselves.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Yes, put more load on the healers and then blame everything on the healers for not correcting your mistakes when you get yourself killed after screwing up a second time shortly after the first one. Exactly what we need in this game. More pressure on the healers instead of everybody having some responsibility on their own survival. We have too many healers and not enough dps anyway.

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I hadn't seen this when I posted but Kaeren, you speak the words of truth!

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

It's already plenty valuable, and all encounters with echo can have mechanics ignored already. Have you considered practicing and trying to dodge things, instead of waiting for the game to hold your hand?

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This would be more for the people who still haven't beaten Titan EX due to not being able to dodge well. Trust me, I've seen a few of them and I feel really bad for them. Plus as is, in mechanic heavy fights Echo is pretty useless, it won't save you at all, because if you can't dodge fast enough you won't survive. With a 10% movement speed max on echo from the first stack, suddenly people will start dodging better, allowing them to deal with SOME mechanics, not all of them. If anything it just lessens the load, it won't get rid of it, because as we all know, stats won't save you from mechanics.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

With a 10% movement speed max on echo from the first stack, suddenly people will start dodging better, allowing them to deal with SOME mechanics, not all of them. If anything it just lessens the load, it won't get rid of it, because as we all know, stats won't save you from mechanics.

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Nah, I don't really think so on this one. I was super bad on the Titan HM fight. Like bad like whoa. The connection of a wireless combined with where I live did not make the fight easy for me. It wasn't lag, just a lack of being able to register my current position on the game.

The jump method was the only thing that saved me and having movement speed doesn't change the lack of positional update.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Nah, I don't really think so on this one. I was super bad on the Titan HM fight. Like bad like whoa. The connection of a wireless combined with where I live did not make the fight easy for me. It wasn't lag, just a lack of being able to register my current position on the game.

The jump method was the only thing that saved me and having movement speed doesn't change the lack of positional update.

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It took me getting a wired connection instead of wifi just to complete Titan HM, that's how bad it was for me with that same problem. The jump method couldn't help me, it seems to keep your relative position during the jump. However when I switched to Fists of Wind, suddenly my movement was being registered by the system a bit better. I was reacting about the same, getting out at the same time as when I was dying previously, but it was registering correctly now. That 10% movement speed buff helped me, it could possibly help others with the same problem. To this day I STILL think of Titan as the hardest primal due to that position registering problem.

Since most of the issues with raid content stem from people being unable to follow tactics, rather than meeting DPS checks (or failing DPS checks because people failed to dodge/etc and died), I've always thought it would be a fairly... Unique idea, if nothing else, to have Echo work as a ghost mode kind of thing. As in, you wiped, now this time you can see "ghost" version of a previous party that beat the content, letting you follow their movements and so on. Would help people get positioning down for things like t5, which is far more helpful than a solid stats boost, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Since most of the issues with raid content stem from people being unable to follow tactics, rather than meeting DPS checks (or failing DPS checks because people failed to dodge/etc and died), I've always thought it would be a fairly... Unique idea, if nothing else, to have Echo work as a ghost mode kind of thing. As in, you wiped, now this time you can see "ghost" version of a previous party that beat the content, letting you follow their movements and so on. Would help people get positioning down for things like t5, which is far more helpful than a solid stats boost, in my opinion.

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How about a working Latency Indictor so i can SEE when my ping is spiking all over the place instead of getting slammed by something i was well and truly OUT of and saying to the party, huh guess i had a lag spike, who knew?

3% increased movement speed per Echo stack would be PERFECT.

Let's not make content even more easier.

Isnt echo for those who cant beat it without? Why are so many posting here, who dont need echo because beating it normally?
It doesnt change anything for you if you can beat it normally but then why you are denying some help for those who cant?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

It's already plenty valuable, and all encounters with echo can have mechanics ignored already. Have you considered practicing and trying to dodge things, instead of waiting for the game to hold your hand?

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The whole point of Echo is to make the content easier on the players side without actually nerfing the content. Jump off your high horse and stop thinking about yourself. If people can't dodge, then a movement buff would help them.

I really like the idea of the movement buff that is better then the OP. 3%/echo buff to cap at 15%/30% would make a big difference to counter lag issues preventing people from being able to beat content.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

The whole point of Echo is to make the content easier on the players side without actually nerfing the content.

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I actually thought, that echo is to artificially boost player's gear stats without altering the mechanics of fight. Just like if it was a player with better gear.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

I actually thought, that echo is to artificially boost player's gear stats without altering the mechanics of fight. Just like if it was a player with better gear.

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But the problem is all those boost don't really help you on mechanic that simply one shot you, and you cannot get raised afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

I really like the idea of the movement buff that is better then the OP. 3%/echo buff to cap at 15%/30% would make a big difference to counter lag issues preventing people from being able to beat content.

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You do realize with higher movement speed you can straight up kite the boss?

The point of echo is to give you a little push to beating the fight without being held back by other reasons besides the mechanics of the fight, Bad dps and being under geared might prove to be barriers for clearing hard encounters, which is why there is echo to make that part smoother. It's not there to help you ignore the boss mechanics the developers spent so much time creating for the enjoyment of their players. :I

By the way, all the HM primals can give upwards 50% echo, and all the EX primals, minus shiva, are mostly done for both their loot and challenge. So again, do we really need Echo to be better?

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Originally Posted by Coatl

The point of echo is to give you a little push to beating the fight without being held back by other reasons besides the mechanics of the fight, Bad dps and being under geared might prove to be barriers for clearing hard encounters, which is why there is echo to make that part smoother. It's not there to help you ignore the boss mechanics the developers spent so much time creating for the enjoyment of their players. :I

By the way, all the HM primals can give upwards 50% echo, and all the EX primals, minus shiva, are mostly done for both their loot and challenge. So again, do we really need Echo to be better?

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No, the point was to give less skilled players the chance to beat end game content without actually nerfing the content. Ignoring a mechanic would simply mean you stand in place because you're over flowing with health and defense which is how it's designed right now. Adding a movement speed buff would still require players to dodge and move out of the way of AoE.

Let's talk about loot though, Primal EX give you what, i95 weapons and some crafting stuff? Coil is i95 / i115 and we are on i120 from expert dungeon drops. If you want to maintain the challenge then beating it the first go round wouldn't give you a buff so that's a moot point.

With echo buff the only thing you need to pay attention to is mechanics, you could face-roll your rotation and probably still out DPS the original numbers of people who cleared those fights prior to echo (Or just tank hits like Death Sentence without cooldowns up because your VIT pool is so high). If you can't deal with mechanics, then learn them or else you're just going to get stuck again, and again, and again in future fights. Mechanics -are- the fights in this game, I can understand and accept why echo buff exists. It's for people who aren't able to execute optimal rotations, heal/cooldown timings to give them a chance in fights with role checks. That doesn't mean that SE has any responsibility to make the fights easier mechanically, because it just gets harder from there on out. If someone got stuck on Titan Hard Mode for long enough would it make any sense to say "Man sorry you're stuck on Titan Hard Mode, we'll just let you skip this fight and head on to Titan Extreme - I'm sure you'll do better in there". No, it wouldn't. No matter how old or irrelevant content becomes if you can't clear it with the help SE is providing you then maybe you deserve to be stuck back there.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

you could face-roll your rotation and probably still out DPS the original numbers of people who cleared those fights prior to echo

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No. You grossly underestimate how utterly atrocious some of the player base is at DPS. With i110 and +20% echo, they are doing less than i85 players in 2.0 in T5. Conflags are still somehow dangerous even though the potential damage output by players is more than double with current gear cap and echo in there.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No. You grossly underestimate how utterly atrocious some of the player base is at DPS. With i110 and +20% echo, they are doing less than i85 players in 2.0 in T5. Conflags are still somehow dangerous even though the potential damage output by players is more than double with current gear cap and echo in there.

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Maybe he never tryed T5 with DF...

How about increased limit break generation with echo?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You do realize with higher movement speed you can straight up kite the boss?

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The point is to move out of Marked AOE attack The boss could move at the same seem, Just the AOE attack/ Marked attack you would have a chance to move out of range.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

How about increased limit break generation with echo?

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This would also be very useful.

Here's an idea: go play NIN it has an innate movement speed buff. Or play tank so you can not care if you get hit by extra stuff.