DRK Lore Suggestion

Hi. I've been playing FF games since I was a little thing with my first nintendo. Due to the "stunted" releases of Final Fantasy in the states, I went directly from 1 to 4 (II on the SNES). I was absolutely obsessed with DRK/DRG and FF4 my entire adolescence (and adult life). When I started playing XI, at NA release, the first social linkshell I made was named "Knights of Baron". Everyone on Ragnarok knew me (Ashman) for my obsession with perfecting DRG (until abyssea era when the poor weapon assignments to drg forced me to move to a more "weapon versatile job") and later DRK.

Anyhow, I know that development for the expansion is probably already very far underway. I still would lose sleep at night if I didn't air out my idea for DRK storyline in the expansion.

I started playing XIV and from day 1 told my friends "when drk comes out, i have dibs on playing it". I've been tanking for our Free Company so when I heard that DRK was going to be a tank i was overjoyed instead of disappointed. I feel this fits right into the whole concept of Cecil having to choose between the Dark Knight, and the Light Knight (Paladin). :cool:

So here's my idea: The name of the expansion is "Heaven Sward". I think we could play into this heavenly sward in the storyline. During the storyline we find out that the [spoiler]corruption within the paladin storyline goes deeper than originally thought.[/spoiler] You learn that if you are going to continue down your current path, you will eventually become corrupted yourself (dark knight).

Introduce Seraph (an esper/summon in previous titles) as a primal. Seraph brings a mighty sward with her from heaven. In the cutscenes after the Seraph Storymode fight, you can use the holy power of the sward to cleanse the evil from your order and continue as a real paladin. Your other option is to give in to the might/power of the dark and corrupt the sward along with yourself. At this point, at least if i were the writer, Paladin and Dark Knight would be mutually exclusive on the job list. This would explain why DRK didn't have a "class", because it would require an already leveled "job" to use. It also agrees with the lore from IV: Cecil had to cast aside his dark knight ways and embrace paladin. This obviously should be reversible somehow (like talking to an NPC to re-enable pld instead of drk etc) but i like the idea of PLD/DRK being unable to be selected out of the armory list without a special flagging to reflect your choice.

For hard mode/extreme Seraph fights, you could make the rewards fit in a slightly loose manner. Obviously, options for a Heaven Sward / Heaven Sheild. You could also fit in the storyline's evil version of the heaven sward (maybe Hades Great Sward?).

I think something else will also need to be done to alleviate the bandwagoning of leveling DRK. It's currently like a 3 day queue to do anything on ninja. Top that off with the gross deterioration of server integrity since 2.4 and you're more likely to get 90k'ed than to actually get into a daily roulette. Maybe work something out as an alternate addition route for exp with seraph and the sward? Maybe like a "low - mid level beast daily" option?

It's good to see someone so enthusiastic about Dark Knight! Still, a couple of things you should know...

First, as a new poster here's a trick you can do to avoid having to post multiple posts in a row. If you're going to write a long post, write it in a notepad and then post only the first paragraph. Then, edit your post, and copy the rest of of your post into the edit window and repost it. This will get around the 1000 character limit and allow you to place your entire text into one post. It's what I did with this very post, which is 1913 characters long.

Secondly, a Sward is not a Sword. A sward is a grassy stretch of land, not a bladed weapon. Heavensward doesn't refer to a weapon. It probably doesn't even refer to a grassy stretch of land - they probably mean Heavensward to mean "in the direction of the heavens" or "toward the heavens". The idea of DRK using a special sword is a good one, though, and very much in-keeping with the lore of Dark Knights in some of the prior Final Fantasies, such as Cecil's dark swords in IV, and the Deathbringer granted to you by Zeid in FFXI.

I think that making Paladin and Dark Knight mutually exclusive will be a tough sell. Folks already whine loudly about having to choose which way to distribute points when playing Scholar and Summoner; I can scarcely imagine what the backlash would be like if everyone who has leveled Paladin would have to throw all that away just to play Dark Knight!

Lastly, I wouldn't be too concerned about DRK-bandwagoning making it tough to queue. The fact that it is a tanking job is going to scare a LOT of people away from playing it! While it may spark enough interest that many players who normally don't want to tank will try it out anyway, I very much doubt that there will be enough such people that we actually wind up with more tanks than can be supported by the groups seeking parties in the party finder.

Considering there'll be a floating continent, Heaven-Sward could as well be a grassy stretch of land... In the sky ;)

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=sward

Yoshi P has said the name is a reference to the fact that we are heading into the sky, moving heaven-ward, but since there are multiple heavens it's heavensward. The s is there to pluralize heaven, not form the word sward. (Double meanings always possible tho)

you guys are ruining my fun.

*edit* i had actually assumed it was "heaven's ward" as in:

verb
1. archaic

guard; protect.
"it was his duty to ward the king"

Hi "ashman". I have a huge problem with all of your posts. It greatly offends me. I have self-diagnosed pretentious-self-entitled syndrome, and if you post multiple things in a row, I'm going to have to say something about it. I really am also offended by your post because it's oppressive. Why? Because I said so. I really hope you don't think you're smarter than me, because you sure are acting like it. Heavensword is not a sward. You obtain the sword by defeating Bahamut in Minfilia's private chambers. If you are going to act like such a fool here on the forums, I best hope you get the right idea on how to post about swords and heaven. You're offending me greatly just by being here on the forums. Please stop. You aren't smarter than me. We're a tight-knit community who are very opinionated and your words are destroying our thin wall of hierarchy. Thanks.

I am personally looking forward to the large amount of Dark Knights running around in the "Warrior of Light" set.. Just for the contradictory nature of such.

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Originally Posted by Malrend

I am personally looking forward to the large amount of Dark Knights running around in the "Warrior of Light" set.. Just for the contradictory nature of such.

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It's as contradictory as using egis to defeat primals :p You still serve Light, even if using the power of Darkness. Just like BLM, using the void.
However, Warrior of Lights actually refers to the "blinding white light" people experienced when trying to think about the adventurers in Carteneau.

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Originally Posted by PupC

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Was...any of that really necessary? Everyone who has posted here has done so in such a way as to help the OP, whether it be through bypassing ridiculous forum rules or by attempting to clarify the meaning of words and titles through publicly acknowledged and confirmed facts.

Take your sass and internet-fight-starting flame posts elsewhere, please.

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Originally Posted by Torquil

Yoshi P has said the name is a reference to the fact that we are heading into the sky, moving heaven-ward, but since there are multiple heavens it's heavensward. The s is there to pluralize heaven, not form the word sward. (Double meanings always possible tho)

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Yes, he made a point of saying there are multiple heavens in Eorzia, and we are heading to them, hence the title. It was during his opening presentation.

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Originally Posted by Ashman

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=sward

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hmm right, sward
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cVlPZiFWCp...1600/sward.JPG

but to your defense, many people misspell "sword" into "sward"

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Originally Posted by Ashman

you guys are ruining my fun.

*edit* i had actually assumed it was "heaven's ward" as in:

verb
1. archaic

guard; protect.
"it was his duty to ward the king"

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They said that it was skies and not sky for Souten no Ishard ( japanese don't have plural ) so I think it's Heavens ward ( to the skies )

Also DRK might be introduced in the world of darkness where we fight the Cloud of Darkness ( so 2.5 CT final part ), in FF3 we free ( wake up ? ) the 4 warriors of darkness so that hey can help us defeat the CoD and they all 4 are DRK.

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Originally Posted by Wolfandre

Was...any of that really necessary? Everyone who has posted here has done so in such a way as to help the OP, whether it be through bypassing ridiculous forum rules or by attempting to clarify the meaning of words and titles through publicly acknowledged and confirmed facts.

Take your sass and internet-fight-starting flame posts elsewhere, please.

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To be fair, none of this was really necessary. The OP was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek and humorous. Their post was one of the few "on topic" because of the obvious (maybe not that obvious i guess) sarcasm and silliness.

We joke in our FC because some people actually pronounce it "heaven sward" instead of heavens ward". The lore was half-joke and half-serious. I would genuinely like there to a be a tie in as far as pld vs drk ala FF IV. I still think the "have to go back to town to switch between pld and drk" thing is something I would enjoy. The rest of the OP was a goof on sward and such.

The big thing that i genuinely (all jokes aside) hope is that it has some of the "zeid" feel from XI. I'm hoping for a lore involving feelings of solitude, loss, anger, rage etc. I feel that a good dark knight lore should involve emotions ranging from "blue to red and everywhere in between"... like a sad/angry bipolar. You get mad and inflict serious damage. Then you come down from the adrenaline and have time to consider the atrocities you've committed.

I also would like my Apocalypse back. Man i loved Cata tanking <3

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Originally Posted by Ashman

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notbad.jpg

I rescind my previous comment!

I will level with you, though. FFXI DRK was best DRK. It had a pretty good flow of 'my despair-turned-rage is what fuels me,' despite Zeid not always living up to that in his dialogue/actions. However, I'm just wondering how that will translate to the player character, as your life as the WoL is just flippin' peachy.

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Originally Posted by Malrend

I am personally looking forward to the large amount of Dark Knights running around in the "Warrior of Light" set.. Just for the contradictory nature of such.

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It was said before, but just so people fully understand: Dark Knights are NOT evil. They may draw their power from a questionable source, but they still use their abilities for a good cause. And that's not such a far-fetched concept as it might seem.

Summoners use ancient Allagan summoning techniques that the Ascians are feeding to the beast tribes in order for them to summon Primals. The White Mages of Amdapor destroyed their civilization by taking too much energy away from the world, same with the Black Mages that were fighting against them in the war of the Magi (the scholars of Nym as well, but their civilization fell for a different reason).

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Originally Posted by Ashman

The big thing that i genuinely (all jokes aside) hope is that it has some of the "zeid" feel from XI. I'm hoping for a lore involving feelings of solitude, loss, anger, rage etc. I feel that a good dark knight lore should involve emotions ranging from "blue to red and everywhere in between"... like a sad/angry bipolar. You get mad and inflict serious damage. Then you come down from the adrenaline and have time to consider the atrocities you've committed.

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Now, if I was to take a shot in the dark as to how the Dark Knights would fit into the world come Heavensward, I could see them as being the secret army of the Holy See. The Dragoons are the public figures, the heroes in the limelight, but the Dark Knights would be the troops that deal with the not-so-heroic jobs. One might think of them a bit like the Iscariot Organization from the anime Hellsing.

If there are any "atrocities" to be done as a Dark Knight, it'll probably be against some truly evil parties that seriously have it coming (such as the Dravanian Hoard).

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Originally Posted by Nahara

It was said before, but just so people fully understand: Dark Knights are NOT evil. They may draw their power from a questionable source, but they still use their abilities for a good cause. And that's not such a far-fetched concept as it might seem.

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Hey you won't get any complaints from me. The original artwork of the "Warrior of Light" (Once again, I'm talking the armour set that references the very first Final Fantasy, not the title bestowed upon us PCs), has him wielding a single longsword/bastard sword, and no shield.. If the DRK end up of getting some smaller/thinner greatswords, they will probably better reflect the original "Warrior of Light" than the PLD ever could or will.

Nonetheless, their names still have a contradictory nature.. I suggest that any DRK that wears the "Warrior of Light" set, shall henceforth be referred to as a "Twilight Soldier" or some other variation thereof, just to reflect the meeting between light and dark.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

It's as contradictory as using egis to defeat primals.

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I like to fight tempered Amalj'aa and Ixali with Ifrit-egi and Garuda-egi, respectively. Just to, you know, rub it into their faces, the fact that they're the slaves of my slaves. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Now, if I was to take a shot in the dark as to how the Dark Knights would fit into the world come Heavensward, I could see them as being the secret army of the Holy See.

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Actually, given the traditional rivalry between dark knights and dragoons, I wouldn't be suprised if the dark knight job originated from the Dravanians, or perhaps from the heretics.

It can fit. We've learnt from Patch 2.4 of the heretics' bitterness against the Ishgardians for suppressing the "truth" about the Dragonsong War. We've also learnt from the MSQ about their hatred of the Inquisition, of the many injustices it had brought about.

It won't take much a stretch to imagine all that bitterness and hatred being moulded into a new form of martial dedication, aka, the dark knights. And I wouldn't be surprised if we were to later find a sympathetic faction among the heretics that would join the Alliance, and thus impart knowledge of the discipline to their new allies.

For all we know, the dark knights could be the fallen versions of Ishgardian dragoons, rather than fallen paladins.

As I said in another thead

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Originally Posted by Keisatsu

It's a stretch but maybe us, the PC's will become the vessel for Zodiark and then be purified of it whilst retaining some of the dark energies from Zodiark..

Thus leading into Drk lore and how we'll learn to wield Zodiark's darkness whilst not necessarily being evil. (Again..it's a stretch, but possible?)

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I think it's far more plausible for Dark Knights to be Ishgard's black ops unit, given the medieval theme of the expansion. This team has done a good job so far of separating FFXIV job lore from the other games. I doubt Dark Knights will have beef with any of the existing jobs, Paladins included.

But then how do you explain that Dark Knight doesn't have a a base class? If it were a secret military branch of Ishgard it, I'd think it would be more like the Rogue Guild in Limsa Lominsa.
I'm more in favor of Keisatsus idea. Well not going so far as to say we become a vessel for Zodiark, but a closer connection with the Ascians that let's us wield a fraction of their "void abilities".
And like we unlocked more of our Echo abilities with the crystals after the Primal Fights, we could gain new abilities for the Dark Knight by beating certain bosses.

Just my two cents on the matter^^

Hmm.. It would certainly be a unique take on the Dark Knight if it were to become a "Magitek Knight" and I really do want a class that relies on Magitek in some fashion or other..

That said, I'm not sure that the use of Magitek would give the proper self-sacrificial abilities that have been common to all Dark Knights in the series so far.. But perhaps my imagination is lacking in this regard.

As much as I hate bursting the speculation-bubble and as cool as the idea is, I'm trying to be realistic. As far as DRK (or any future job) not having a base class, it's simply that the team doesn't want to use classes anymore. The only requirements that are likely are lv50 in a battle class and have access to the expansion.

So far, NIN is the only job that's been involved in the main story and at that, they were only showed/mentioned in a handful of quests. I see the same thing happening with DRK and any other jobs that are released in the future - mentioned in the patch missions in which they're implemented and left to have their own separate, unique story. No jobs thus far have been so complex in their origins. I doubt we'll even see the end of the Ascian plot or Zodiark in 3.0, let alone early enough in the story to unlock such an anticipated job.

Think simple and keep it accessible from the get-go of 3.0. Dark Knights will likely be either an underground order of rage-filled vigilantes, flirting with dark arts or Ishgard's secret police/division of the temple knights used to silence those who would speak against the Holy See. Something along the lines of a much darker Knights Templar.