I have Verizon FIOS and live on the east coast. I lag nearly every night during primetime unless I use WTFast. It's probably not your servers, however, it is affecting your game.
From what I understand, there is packet loss concerning how Level 3 routes this data. Last night, many other players reported lag. It seemed to be affecting about 50% of the players in my free company. A wide variety of reports were documented here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...nd_unbearable/
So I ask, what can be done to resolve this? It seems unfair to have to pay an additional monthly fee to play this game. Verizon (or most other ISPs experiencing this) tells you that it's not their problem. However, I suspect it's not SE's problem either. So how does the player resolve this issue? Is SE trying to work with providers to ensure this doesn't happen? Is this similar to the ISPs throttling Netflix? Is there anything we, as a playerbase, can do to help?
Official response concerning the lag plaguing this game?
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11-13-2014, 01:30 AMTurinOfficial response concerning the lag plaguing this game?
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11-13-2014, 01:32 AMRecaldy
inb4 Tuesday excuse
Then again I rarely lag and it was pretty bad last night. -
11-13-2014, 01:35 AMTurin
This thread was started in 2013, but the issue still hasn't been resolved.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...P2P-throttling
Another thread concerning lag during peak hours.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-at-Peak-Hours -
11-13-2014, 01:36 AMCodek
I believe Verizon FIOS actually has it's own issues on top of the Level 3 routes.
All ISP's travel through the Level 3 nodes cause problems for players around patch releases.
I recall Verizon for some reason sends all or the New England connection to a routing station located in New York before heading to Canada. The New York node is also a highly congested one that causes even more problems for those particular players. Add both these issues together and FIOS users basically get the shaft... -
11-13-2014, 01:43 AMCluebilly
I've been getting some pretty bad lag myself. And I had zero issues prior to this patch.
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11-13-2014, 01:43 AMClavaat
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-at-Peak-Hours
I posted this awhile ago which has some more info. I appreciate that you're actually doing the research. I posted some contact info for Verizon in that thread as well, if you want to look into it. I have had no success. Last night was particularly bad, but that seemed to be for everyone. The traceroute I ran actually had congestion on Ormuco's end (the ISP SE's servers are using). It's quite possible Ormuco was having a hiccup. Verizon in particular is a weird case because we (such as myself) don't always pass through Level3, but Alter.net, which is owned by Verizon itself. Like I said, last night could very well be a separate issue, but in general Verizon customers will probably still have problems.
EDIT: In addendum, the reason there has not been a direct "the fault is with X" response is probably due in large part to contracts. SE cannot badmouth Ormuco, Ormuco cannot badmouth Level3, etc etc down the line of bullshit that is sad but true. Doing so could cause them to lose their provider, which knocks everyone completely out until they find a new one. SE honestly has been pretty open about issues involving the game itself, but this goes a bit further than that. I'd like to believe that if the problem was the server itself, we would know about (they have come clean about this in the past).
EDIT again: Also, I have personally made SE aware of the issue with throttling and I would like to believe they are doing all they can. Big companies like Verizon have big egos, so they are quick to say "It's not my fault, it's yours!" There is a possibility that it is a similar issue as Netflix, what with packetsniffers looking for game data and saying "fuck that, who cares?" I'm not positive, my theory is that it's simply Content Delivery Networks being absolute shit in the U.S. What I've done to help is post publicly all over the place, called Verizon many times, called SE many times, etc. AFAIK that's the best we can do. -
11-13-2014, 01:47 AMPureEclipse
Tbh I still haven't had any of these "lag" issues since the initial "launch" last year.
While I do sympathize with the people that are experiencing lag, I still don't think pointing the finger at SE is the answer. -
11-13-2014, 01:51 AMClavaat(The following questions are hypothetical, you don't have to answer)Quote:
Originally Posted by PureEclipse
Where do you live, geographically? Who is your ISP? How much bandwidth are you paying for? What server do you play on? What hops do you pass through? What are your PC specs? Are you on wireless? Are other people on your house online?
I don't say this to be facetious, but you have to understand that there are a lot of different issues that come into play when dealing with a game tied to an internet connection. It's not always a cut and dry, this person doesn't have it, so it doesn't exist, kind of thing. Or it's X's fault and not Y's. -
11-13-2014, 02:18 AMRaist
It is basically an issue with the peering/transit agreements that aren't providing sufficient throughput to avoid the congestion. More specifically, the ISP's in play not wanting to pony up the resources to upgrade things to offset the massive increases in their customers' usage.
It's less an issue with our bandwidth (the game requires very little bandwidth...an ADSL Lite plan is more then enough, provided latency is low and consistent enough), but it is more an issue of not enough throughput at the exchange points. Google can run all the dark fiber they want, but it does no good when their customers get routed through exchanges with only a few 10Gb cards (or worse, restricted by copper) that creates a massive choking point for their users.
We need to put the pressure on them to upgrade/reconfigure as needed to avoid the congested corridors. They have plenty of ways to remedy these issues...they are just choosing not to spend the necessary resources to do it--even when a partner offers to split the costs. -
11-13-2014, 02:35 AMClavaatLinks/sources/contact info? Would going directly to ISP's be the best route? I'm not sure there's a customer service rep category exactly for this haha. This is getting into territory I'm honestly not 100% sure on, so I'd like to know exactly where/how to make demands. I know I've wanted to make a point of contacting Alter.net or level3 directly, but I'll be damned if you can't get through to anything. I've been at it for months and any other help would be appreciated :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
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11-13-2014, 02:36 AMTurin"them" as in SE or the ISPs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
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11-13-2014, 02:40 AMClavaatCDN's and ISP's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin
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11-13-2014, 02:47 AMTurinWell, it seems we have little control or impact over that. Is there anything SE can do in the interim to prevent players from experiencing these issues? I've never gotten lag like this with any other game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavaat
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11-13-2014, 02:52 AMPureEclipseNo I totally understand and its why I sympathize to begin with, tons of factors involved, I just question the reasoning why it is something that SE is responsible for,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavaat
an analogy would be, the Air Force has jets, aircraft carriers carry jets, thus the air force should be in charge of aircraft carriers, and this is the way I see the argument spun every time this is brought up, its WHAT is SE going to do about it, not what am I going to do about it with the provider/location/routing/whathaveyou -
11-13-2014, 02:58 AMWizardShotTheFoodIs there anything the driver of a semi truck can do to stop tens of thousands of other vehicles from clogging up the highway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin
(it is a car analogy) -
11-13-2014, 02:59 AMClavaatI would recommend getting the IP address for said other games, run a tracert, and post the results compared to a trace route for FFXIV. Take those results next to each other, post them on the Tech Support section here, call SE and email them, call Verizon and email them. Be polite, informed and stern. Don't let them detract you with "uhhhh did you reset your router?" bullshit. Post information on facebook, twitter, etc. If SE can't badmouth Verizon/Ormuco/Level3/Alter.net, we totally can. Get the information out there as publicly as possible. The more people that see it, the more people will go "Oh wow, that sucks, I'm going to avoid that ISP." They lose money, they start working harder to fix the problem. Also, threaten to leave. It could be an empty threat (I totally can't leave my provider), but it makes them work harder as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin
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11-13-2014, 08:53 AMRaistYour ISP has different tiers in their organization. When you call in to the help desk and get technicians on site and such, you are pretty much just dealing with Tiers 1 and 2. They simply can't deal with this stuff. What you need is escalation to a higher tier. As we continually mention, you need to be dealing with Tier3. Don't get me wrong... I don't mean to disparage the guys working in these lower tiers. Many actually know what is going on, and may otherwise be able to help you address your problems--but the policies in place prevent them from taking the steps it would require. They are given limited tools/access/authority that just doesn't cover this scope of the diagnostics/resolution that is needed--so you need to push for a higher tier of support. You may need to ask for a supervisor to get the escalation, but it does exist and you need to demand it. Alternatively, you could go to their forums/twitter/facebook and push for the escalation as well. If all else fails, there are databases containing contact info provided when they applied for their IP addresses and domain names. This is publicly available at multiple sources. ARIN is a pretty popular one. Just plug the public IP address in the Search WHoIs box to get the information (can get yours from this tool). If the IP is for a region not maintained in their database, they will usually link you to the database that does maintain the data. Most of them will list the generic ones like postmaster, admin, or abuse @domain.com that get aliased to someone in the organization to monitor and forward emails appropriately. Even if you don't see the specific one listed for network admin (like the tech contact may say abuse @ispname.com), you can try using admin @ispname.com.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clavaat
The ISP's mostly. You pay them for the service. They set the policies in motion that govern how your data is routed. Thus, they are responsible for fixing things when they go wrong. Whether that involves splitting nodes, re-assigning channels, adusting metrics to switch you to an alternate exchange (or partner for that matter), upgrading the headends with more ports, or escalating the matter up the engineering chain to lease additional ports at the exchanges---it is their job to maintain, a job for which you are paying them a monthly fee to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin
They can ask politely for them to investigate the routing issues... but that is about it. SE is not their paying customer. We are. As such, we actually do have some measure of influence. It's basically the power of the purse. We pay the ISP for service. With that payment comes an expected minimum quality of service, even though there is no written QoS agreement, it is implied and fair practices philosophy should prevail. If it does not, you can threaten to pull the plug--whether you have an alternative option or not, the threat becomes real when you ask to be transferred to someone that can terminate the service. You'd be surprised just how many rules the retention departments are suddenly magically able to bend and break. You may also have consumer advocacy in your area, or there may be a local/regional regulatory authority you can contact. Contact info should be included with your bill if it is available. Last but not least, complaints can be filed with the Federal Trade Commission. Note they have oversight over mergers/acquisitions and such when it comes to telecommunications (as in , the most recent TWC/Comcast mess that is currently pending). As such, they do actually take complaints for unfair practices involving the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turin