Before Name Change, Fix FC Bank Thieves First!

The title implies and some friends made a very good point on this. Yes, some could make a rank to ensure they do not take from the chest, yada yada. But that fact does kind of remain. There are people actively going into FCs, working their way up rank or even right away if the FC rank lets them access right away--they go in, take all the gil and belongings in the guild chest and then leave.

Even if invited in, its still an act of thievery. SE hasn't done anything so people were left to let people know behind the scenes. Now with this name feature, they can easily change their name and continue to take advantage of the system.

I don't mind name changes. I like name changes. Sometimes, using Fantasia makes the current name your using obsolete. I get that... but if your going to sneak in a feature, you'd better fix this first! If someone comes into a Free Company with the intent to steal from everyone's hard work, whether they work up the rank to do it or join immediately, it doesn't matter. Its theft and SE, you got to do something about it before putting this feature in! Theft is theft, no matter what that Free Company did.

You gave them a tool to use to abuse it, and now its time to speak up and, hopefully, SE does something about it. Its a real issue and this name change only empowers those people to continue doing it.

Too late, Namingway is here.

You cannot steal something given to you.

Also, the character ID number is the same. If you really are concerned about people taking things out of the FC chest, write down the ID numbers of these problematic people and check it every so often. Eventually if they change a name it can circulate around so people know who to run out for.

Or do not put extremely expensive items in a FC chest that is accessed by members you do not know very well.

Screen better, limit better. What would you propose SE do? They cannot have a "take items back from member" function, that would be silly.

So, what is your suggestion to "fix" the fact that people of a certain rank have the ability to remove Gil from an FC chest? I would genuinely like to hear what you think they can do to prevent this sort of thing happening in game.

Don't give bank access to people you don't trust.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

Yes, some could make a rank to ensure they do not take from the chest, yada yada. But that fact does kind of remain. There are people actively going into FCs, working their way up rank or even right away if the FC rank lets them access right away--they go in, take all the gil and belongings in the guild chest and then leave.

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So what do you want SE to do? Flick a wand and magically make all the bad people go away? Your solution works fine.

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Originally Posted by zar

So what do you want SE to do? Flick a wand and magically make all the bad people go away? Your solution works fine.

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I want SE to acknowledge the problem and actually, you know, punish the thieves when it goes reported. Suspensions, bans, just... anything. Saying who the thieves are isn't enough. They should be discouraged from doing it and the stuff stolen should be returned. Thats what I think should happen.

Because right now? There isn't. It could happen and its literally punishing the victim. That is all this is. Punishing the victim. The indifference to the problem is pretty bad, and its happening right now.

No, the FC I'm in never had this problem but I can imagine how everyone else would feel or how horrible they feel when something like this happens and everyone blames the victim, not the criminal.

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Originally Posted by Titor

You cannot steal something given to you.

Also, the character ID number is the same. If you really are concerned about people taking things out of the FC chest, write down the ID numbers of these problematic people and check it every so often. Eventually if they change a name it can circulate around so people know who to run out for.

Or do not put extremely expensive items in a FC chest that is accessed by members you do not know very well.

Screen better, limit better. What would you propose SE do? They cannot have a "take items back from member" function, that would be silly.

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That's like saying if you have a gym membership you can take the equipment home, cancel your membership and its not stealing. How well do you think that would go over? It's people like this who do the whole victim blaming that allow this to continue.

The least SE could do is fix the promotion issue that allows someone to promote another person above their own rank. This is continually used to steal things from FCs when ranks are put in place. A lot of people don't even know that it is possible for this to happen.

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Originally Posted by Kaeda_Valentyne

That's like saying if you have a gym membership you can take the equipment home, cancel your membership and its not stealing. How well do you think that would go over? It's people like this who do the whole victim blaming that allow this to continue.

The least SE could do is fix the promotion issue that allows someone to promote another person above their own rank. This is continually used to steal things from FCs when ranks are put in place. A lot of people don't even know that it is possible for this to happen.

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More like you have a gym membership, drink some of the free water readily-given to you in the gyms, and then cancel your memberships.

That person who drank the water was not stealing it, since at the time they had a valid membership and the water was readily open and available to them.

What most people off of Balmung don't realize is there is a few individuals active on our server that are joining multiple FCs and stealing what they can from their chests and then moving onto another. All of my linkshell's and even my FC was hit by this individual(s). Just report the user and move on. They will punish the user if enough evidence and reports are provided

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Originally Posted by Kaeda_Valentyne

That's like saying if you have a gym membership you can take the equipment home, cancel your membership and its not stealing. How well do you think that would go over? It's people like this who do the whole victim blaming that allow this to continue.

The least SE could do is fix the promotion issue that allows someone to promote another person above their own rank. This is continually used to steal things from FCs when ranks are put in place. A lot of people don't even know that it is possible for this to happen.

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No a better analogy is letting people stay at your house giving them access to your home safe where you keep your money and valuables. Moral of the story is don't give people access you don't trust.

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Originally Posted by Titor

You cannot steal something given to you.

Also, the character ID number is the same. If you really are concerned about people taking things out of the FC chest, write down the ID numbers of these problematic people and check it every so often. Eventually if they change a name it can circulate around so people know who to run out for.

Or do not put extremely expensive items in a FC chest that is accessed by members you do not know very well.

Screen better, limit better. What would you propose SE do? They cannot have a "take items back from member" function, that would be silly.

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Isn't the Character ID number only available among Playstation users? I swear that I had read something awhile back that mentioned Character ID numbers but that it was only visible among those who play via the Playstation 3 & 4.

He's talking about the Lodestone ID. That never changes. In any case, while I do agree the devs could make some adjustments to the permissions so you can set levels of Promotion permission, at the moment there's not much they can do to police the problem since it's very difficult to separate legit transactions from the thefts.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

He's talking about the Lodestone ID. That never changes. In any case, while I do agree the devs could make some adjustments to the permissions so you can set levels of Promotion permission, at the moment there's not much they can do to police the problem since it's very difficult to separate legit transactions from the thefts.

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I see. Now that makes sense. The Lodestone ID wouldn't change, though you would need to become a little stalker-ish and follow the offending character.

Though I do agree that the ability to promote someone to a rank above your own does seem like a bit of an oversight that needs to be remedied.

It's not stealing if you give them access to it.

There are ways to set levels.
My wife and I just joined a new FC and we asked if they had a rank to set us too until we found out if we where a good fit or not. It seems to be working out well, But I'm not going to ask for access if they feel I need or should have access I will take it.


The other option is to micro manage and let everyone see everything but need to ask if they want something.

What's worse than "thieves" raiding FC chests is the amount of people not cut out to be a FC leader, but do it anyway.

I wonder if the people who have this problem also leave their home's door wide open while away for vacation, then blame the government for not controlling thieves better after their place gets burglarized.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

What's worse than "thieves" raiding FC chests is the amount of people not cut out to be a FC leader, but do it anyway.

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There is no true definition of what a leader ought to be.

The solution.

• If you do not lead your FC, leave
• Start a new FC
• make so that only the leader (you) can withdraw from chests
• If you're unwilling to leave for some reason and are not the leader, ask your FC leader to so the above step

there, problem solved :^)

I know how SE could do this, just ban everyone and there would be no one stealing from any FC banks.

Why put money in the chest if it isn't going to be used soon?
Deposite it only whe you fc is about to make a collective purchase. Especially if u have.trust issues

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

I wonder if the people who have this problem also leave their home's door wide open while away for vacation, then blame the government for not controlling thieves better after their place gets burglarized.

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Not just that but also puts a sign outside that says
"Free, please take!"

This is why you don't give every shmuck access to the chest. Make it where only the top few who are trusted and are active can access items at all times. Don't promote more people to chest access level because you want to be kind to your FC. There's no reason to have so many people with chest access.

Permissions could be fixed to disallow individuals to adjust their own ranks, it's also true that people with a rank which has been given the ability to promote should be considered trusted before earning that rank. Some people are failing to realize that this isn't a matter of blaming people for stealing or bad management of current permissions, but that the current permissions could be improved.

I would like to see expanded permissions so functionality is much greater than currently set. Like, a setting for people to withdrawal up to a certain amount of money or a certain amount of items per bank slot per day.

I was robbed shortly after I first started a FC, but the only thing of consequence at that time was materia. Currently, with strict permissions, there are no robberies however the FC Chest functions more like a display case rather than something to be used as a central repository for everyone to benefit from.

I'm a pretty trusting person. So if I ever give someone access to our FC bank, I tell others I'll be responsible for anything that might go missing. Which isn't saying much cause all we have is 120k in gil and cheap housing items that our retainers have brought us that we put in a tab that anyone has access to.

Members understand that if they put something expensive in that tab and it goes missing, nothing will be done. No name shaming on our part.

It's like leaving a jar full of money in the window. You're just inviting trouble.

Just going to point this out since people seem to not know, but whenever you friend or blacklist someone or whatever it stores them by player ID not their name. So should they name change they are still on whatever lists you had them on and the name is updated. Even if they transfer servers then come back as long as you don't remove the (Deleted) entry it will be updated with whatever their current name is.

Our fc chest works like this: Leader and officers have full access. Only Leader has access to gil. Vip rank has access to first and second item chest slot levels. Everyone else has access to the first chest item slot level. I think almost everyone has access to crystals (minus the new people and low ranks) Anyone can donate crystals and gil. As you can imagine, third item slot is for the expensive items or rares and only the leadership has access. :P

That's why you have all the setting at your hand to allow which rank can access each slot tier or none at all.

Simple solutions is just don't rank them up unless they are active and been join for a long period of times. You can also do something like this...

1 weeks - Access to Tier 1
2 weeks - Access to Tier 2
3 Weeks - Access to Tier 3
One Month - Two Month - Access to Tier 4

Don't put anything valuable in Slot 1 - 3. Only Valuable at Slot 4. And don't let them access gil and crystals of course. This ways they can't jump from one FC to another to do the same to other FC.

Then if you know them really well, can let them take Crystal or Gils. But only recommend if you know that person really well or real friends. SE don't really need to fixed anything. As a players you have all the necessary tools to do this already. SE not there to babysit. People who get in invite and let them access all Chest is beyond me, and you are just asking for it. It like you're asking them to take advantage of you.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

Before Name Change, Fix FC Bank Thieves First!

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First off, it is not SE's problem if the people who made/run the FC are too lazy to set up ranks with different permissions. No access, view access, deposit access and all access.

Just give the "main members" access to deposit gil only with the admins you trust full access. You can give each chest tab different permissions as well. For example, Make one or two tabs have full access with the last tab (or two) with view access only. If your members see something they can use in the second or third tab, it can me moved to the first tab (or two) by people who have been given access.

I fail to see why you think SE should be responsible for a private FC's actions. Especially if you let them have access in the first place. Just because your FC doesn't want to take a little time for your own security that is built in just boggles my mind. The tools are already there.

This is a simple solution for dumb OP.

1. Lock Chest 2 and 3 for the highest Ranking Member, Chest 1 for the lowest.
2. Only put the highest Valuable items in Chest 3. Chest 1 for JUNKS and 2 for Medium Value.
3. Thieves are nice to clean the JUNK off Chest 1 that gives headache so I don't mind and give a fk.
4. Again like 1. GOD DAMN LEARN TO LOCK FC CHEST BY RANKS!!!!
5. Only FC Leader is allowed for Gil Withdrawn.
6. Shards/Crystal/Cluster, LOCK for Highest Rank only! or Medium and High Rank.

permission was given, it cannot be theft, the one that gave the permission is the guilty one. nobody else. When you do what you are allowed to do is not theft, morally is disputable but the mistake is on you, not on them...the solution simply is do not give access to the safe otehr then deposit stuff....if peopel want to withdraw they send a message to the leader and leader decides...

Why scream over this when is not their fault, morally it is, but moral has not the same meaning in everyone's mouth.

Mei

A simple solution would be adding also limits on how much you can take from a chest in a day - be it gil, shards, items... Idealy per slot limits would be best but even per row or column could work. Better yet... let us handle how many chest pages we have based off of the amount of slots we can have and be able to limit that way.

They are not thieves, if they were given rights to access it in the first place.

I think the only thing you could do as an FC leader now who wants to leave chest access mostly open is to have a "contract" in place. For example have all new people come in at a rank with no access what so ever and have them in a tell agree that they are not allowed to clear out the chest and leave. If they do so and you keep a screenshot of the tell you can report them for breach of agreement.
SE already enforces these agreements for gil loans of if you ask someone to make an item for you and you give them the mats. I don't see why this would be any different.

So stop promoting people you don't trust and leaving tabs open to just anybody...?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Don't give bank access.

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Fix'd for you.
Bank withdrawals are only on FC Master and if there is any reason to use, officers just can ask the Gil.
Then, until it gets fixed the part on which you can set other people to a rank higher yours, giving bank acces to any rank is same as giving it to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

I want SE to acknowledge the problem and actually, you know, punish the thieves when it goes reported. Suspensions, bans, just... anything. Saying who the thieves are isn't enough. They should be discouraged from doing it and the stuff stolen should be returned. Thats what I think should happen.

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Whats to stop someone from lying about that occuring? I could invite you to my FC say please take 20k gil all new members get that. Then kick you and tell SE that you stole the money. SE is not a criminal justice system its a game. There can't be blanket trials and accusations about things that happen with in game currency. Thats ridiculous. Stop putting money in your FC chest until you need to raise it for something. Theres nothing even to buy.

There is only two obvious approaches to this problem and the most obvious and one that applies common sense in do not put certain FC chest privileges to people you do not trust. The second being a limitation on the amount any specific rank can take out of the FC chest but you would still be left with your own judgement if you give someone access to a rank higher than they deserve which would allow them to take out things you do not want people taking out.

Just use common sense and stop giving people access to ranks with privileges they might abuse unless your willing to risk losing stuff that you should of known better than to give access to. Report people who abuse this to SE since they have access to a characters name history I believe providing they are competent in their system development so even if you report someone who has since changed their names SE would still be able to locate them, then cross your fingers when something bad happens in that SE would punish them but it is very unlikely SE will take action.