Hide + Sneak attack is a very clunky dynamic...

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11-06-2014, 04:57 AM
Yogarogue

Hide + Sneak attack is a very clunky dynamic...

I am a relatively lower level rogue so my judgement may be off here but I have been noticing that when attempting to use a Hide + Sneak attack in between encounters, it is a very clunky mechanic.

The reason why is because when using hide, sneak attack does not become immediately available, it actually takes a bit to register that we are hidden. Because of this, sneak attack is not available for a small amount of time after using the hide ability. It becomes very clunky and almost not worth the effort.

Looking for some feedback on this to see if any other rogues are feeling the same way.

I have not yet unlocked trick attack so im not going to quickly assume that the same issue would come up for it..
11-06-2014, 04:59 AM
SeraviEdalborez

At 45 you'll get Suiton which lets you use SA/TA without bothering with Hide.
11-06-2014, 05:43 AM
ShaolinMike

I usually hide well before the pull when I know I want to use Sneak/Trick attack. The only downside is that if the tank pulls the mob far from your current location, you have to creep over there lol.

One thing I noticed on accident: When you use Shikuchi it LOOKS like you can immediately cast Hide with delay. Going to experiment with this when I get home to see if you can Shikuchi to position after the pull and immediately Hide without being seen. I would feel sooooo much like a ninja if this works. Has anyone already tried it?
11-06-2014, 07:32 AM
FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Suiton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide.
11-06-2014, 07:37 AM
Yogarogue

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

At 45 you'll get Suiton which lets you use SA/TA without bothering with Hide.

What is Suiton? is it a passive ability you get?
11-06-2014, 07:43 AM
SeraviEdalborez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogarogue

What is Suiton? is it a passive ability you get?

A 3-step jutsu that will let you use TA or SA as if you had Hide activated, within like 5-10 seconds of activating Suiton.
11-06-2014, 09:08 AM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Suiton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide.

This won't work due to the fact that Suiton is actually an attack that hits an enemy, making Hide unavailable.
11-06-2014, 09:10 AM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

This won't work due to the fact that Suiton is actually an attack that hits an enemy, making Hide unavailable.

Those aren't meant to be an arrow, they're "greater than" signs. >_>
11-06-2014, 09:40 AM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Those aren't meant to be an arrow, they're "greater than" signs. >_>

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
11-06-2014, 05:15 PM
Jaykos

I agree its clunky.

Hide should be on a 3 sec cooldown like white mages cleric stance with the option of bringing up a new action bar for abilities to use from stealth. Trick attack and sneak attack should also be on a short 3 sec or so cooldown. Basically wows rogue which works flawlessly and feels great.
11-06-2014, 05:51 PM
Houston009

Id pull hate 100times over if SATA had a 3 sec cooldown lol
11-06-2014, 06:18 PM
Felessan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaykos

Trick attack and sneak attack should also be on a short 3 sec or so cooldown. Basically wows rogue which works flawlessly and feels great.

You do understand that you can just spam TA half of time if TA is on 3 sec cooldown? and all other jutsu will become pointless compared to Suiton.
11-07-2014, 12:47 AM
alsims2007

The skills are fine as is. Both hide and sneak attack are only good for dungeon mobs and solo content. Boss fights take you out of hide. Suiton is the go to skill.
For those that don't know yet, Suiton is a atk that grants the user the effects of Suiton for 10secs. I think the description should had said hide but you dont actually hide so maybe it's correct. Anyway you can trick attack multiple times throughout a battle because of this.
11-07-2014, 08:47 AM
Callinon

The change I'd make here is to make it so someone in the party engaging a boss doesn't immediately put YOU in combat and take you out of Hide.

I understand there might be a balance reason why opening a boss with trick attack would be bad, but it really feels awful to just suddenly not be hidden anymore because someone else poked the boss.

The cooldown on SA and TA is fine and keeps Suiton from automatically being the correct ninjutsu to use when you don't have to use Huton. Nothing wrong there. Just the initial opening on a boss, being pulled out of Hide feels bad.
11-07-2014, 01:12 PM
MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I usually hide well before the pull when I know I want to use Sneak/Trick attack. The only downside is that if the tank pulls the mob far from your current location, you have to creep over there lol.

One thing I noticed on accident: When you use Shikuchi it LOOKS like you can immediately cast Hide with delay. Going to experiment with this when I get home to see if you can Shikuchi to position after the pull and immediately Hide without being seen. I would feel sooooo much like a ninja if this works. Has anyone already tried it?

I also tend to hide long before I use Sneak Attack, especially since I need to maneuver getting in front of the mob when it tends to walk away just as I try to trigger the attack part. Still trying to figure out if its worth it to macro those two things considering the cd is always keeping me from using it in any sort of rhythm I can get use to.
11-10-2014, 11:29 PM
Gruntler

Never bothered hiding in dungeons--the time lost getting to the mob outweighed the 300 potency attack [500 from level 32-45]. It'd put me behind about 2/3s of the full combo and two mutilate ticks behind. It was a dps loss.

Did use it to sneak the occasional treasure coffer tho.

After a while, put hide on a secondar crossbar and NEVER regretted it. It's fun to go BLAP500potenceeeeee but not practical.
11-11-2014, 01:35 AM
SeraviEdalborez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruntler

Never bothered hiding in dungeons--the time lost getting to the mob outweighed the 300 potency attack [500 from level 32-45]. It'd put me behind about 2/3s of the full combo and two mutilate ticks behind. It was a dps loss.

Did use it to sneak the occasional treasure coffer tho.

After a while, put hide on a secondar crossbar and NEVER regretted it. It's fun to go BLAP500potenceeeeee but not practical.

If you let tank get initial pull you will only lose at most 1 GCD because you can just Hide in front of the mob's face.
11-11-2014, 05:38 AM
Gruntler

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

If you let tank get initial pull you will only lose at most 1 GCD because you can just Hide in front of the mob's face.

It later pulls you don't want to stand in front of a mob's face. Tank pulls mob, mob telegraphs cones, cones explode, now you hide and Sneak attack?
11-11-2014, 06:19 AM
ShaolinMike

There's no really to use Sneak Attack over Trick outside of solo content. The extra 10% damage increase for the entire far outweighs the extra potency.
11-11-2014, 08:46 AM
SeraviEdalborez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruntler

It later pulls you don't want to stand in front of a mob's face. Tank pulls mob, mob telegraphs cones, cones explode, now you hide and Sneak attack?

You're there for less than a GCD for only the Sneak Attack (and only pre-50; at 50 you do the same with TA from behind). Point being you don't need to Hide from 10 miles away.

What trash mob does an instant death cleave within 5 seconds of being pulled? Really. Waiting for it.
11-11-2014, 09:33 AM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

There's no really to use Sneak Attack over Trick outside of solo content. The extra 10% damage increase for the entire far outweighs the extra potency.

The 10% damage increase for yourself outweighs the extra potency, nevermind having a full party. >_>
11-11-2014, 12:25 PM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viridiana

The 10% damage increase for yourself outweighs the extra potency, nevermind having a full party. >_>

Agreed, but it takes .001% more effort to position yourself behind the mob when you're solo lol.
11-11-2014, 12:56 PM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Agreed, but it takes .001% more effort to position yourself behind the mob when you're solo lol.

Unless you just pull with it. :p
11-11-2014, 04:40 PM
Gruntler

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

You're there for less than a GCD for only the Sneak Attack (and only pre-50; at 50 you do the same with TA from behind). Point being you don't need to Hide from 10 miles away.

What trash mob does an instant death cleave within 5 seconds of being pulled? Really. Waiting for it.

Not worried about instant death cleaves. I'd be more concerned with the mob's follow up as you dump more enmity into it than most tanks can put out in a single GCD. Isn't there a thread about how ninjas keep gibbing the tank in dungeons? This might be why.