SE: Why give us Goad if we can't see other's TP?

The usefulness of the skill is rather lessened because we have to be told when to use it. I really don't think it should be needed for somebody to ask for Goad in a PUG.

Give us an option to be able to see other's TP, or possibly add a UI element to their name that activates when their TP is <50% or so.

Or just have MP visible for casters and TP visible for Melee in the party list. Keep them the same colors we have down at the bottom of the screen as well and you'd have easy checking.

I've wondered that myself but then again there is only so much room in the UI. A good measure is knowing what TP moves use up the most, I've mostly used it on Warrior tanks as after they have dropped a few Overpowers you can bet their TP is already nearing half or say a bard that just dropped 3 AoE moves in a row burning down a mob pack. It's not too hard to judge where the need might be greatest. However I do wish they could sneak the TP of other players in there somewhere in the UI.

Agreed, fortunately for me I always run with my fiance and she's capable of -telling- me when her TP is low, I could see it being encumbersome to use it in a pug group though, kinda silly tbh

If you're in a dungeon with a warrior/marauder tank, just give it to them halfway through big pulls so they can spam overpower. If you're doing raids, you probably have some kind of TS and/or a static and you'll learn when best to use it. Otherwise, it's not all that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Or just have MP visible for casters and TP visible for Melee in the party list. Keep them the same colors we have down at the bottom of the screen as well and you'd have easy checking.

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paladins would need both, but yeah, this

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Or just have MP visible for casters and TP visible for Melee in the party list. Keep them the same colors we have down at the bottom of the screen as well and you'd have easy checking.

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Originally Posted by bideogames

paladins would need both, but yeah, this

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Bards need it more

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Originally Posted by WinterSolstice

The usefulness of the skill is rather lessened because we have to be told when to use it. I really don't think it should be needed for somebody to ask for Goad in a PUG.

Give us an option to be able to see other's TP, or possibly add a UI element to their name that activates when their TP is <50% or so.

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Actually, even if i could see the Tanks TP, i still would prefer HIM to decide whether or not he needs the TP boost. Same for DPS. While sure, its nice to get a Goad as a Monk if im scraping the barrel, But if im down to half as part of my normal expenditure rotation and have Invig ready to go, well you just wasted your 3min CD.

Better for people to call a need for it, than to drop the responsibility of knowing when someone else might need a TP regen boost onto the Ninja/Bard, when they are most likely attempting to focus on doing their own DPS to the best of their ability. And damn me if not addicted to Mudras right now.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Actually, even if i could see the Tanks TP, i still would prefer HIM to decide whether or not he needs the TP boost. Same for DPS. While sure, its nice to get a Goad as a Monk if im scraping the barrel, But if im down to half as part of my normal expenditure rotation and have Invig ready to go, well you just wasted your 3min CD.

Better for people to call a need for it, than to drop the responsibility of knowing when someone else might need a TP regen boost onto the Ninja/Bard, when they are most likely attempting to focus on doing their own DPS to the best of their ability. And damn me if not addicted to Mudras right now.

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No reason you can't coordinate your goad use better by discussing it with your group if you're worried about wasting it. But in more casual content like t4 farming, CT/ST or regular dungeons it would be nice if we could see the TP of others so BRD/NIN can make informed decisions on their own.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Better for people to call a need for it, than to drop the responsibility of knowing when someone else might need a TP regen boost onto the Ninja/Bard, when they are most likely attempting to focus on doing their own DPS to the best of their ability. And damn me if not addicted to Mudras right now.

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I'd rather have both.

For comparison, I've seen healers asking for Ballad when they clearly still have plenty of MP. Similarly, I'm sure some people would be asking for Goad when they still have plenty of TP.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Actually, even if i could see the Tanks TP, i still would prefer HIM to decide whether or not he needs the TP boost. Same for DPS. While sure, its nice to get a Goad as a Monk if im scraping the barrel, But if im down to half as part of my normal expenditure rotation and have Invig ready to go, well you just wasted your 3min CD.

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Sure, however the fact that the option isn't there makes the skill, more often then not, go completely unused in pugs. Of course there will be people who waste their goad when the see a MNK with 50% TP and the trash pack is almost dead...however as of now the only viable options are:

1. Keep tabs on what skills the other party members are using, use goad when you think they might need it.
2. Have them type out in chat, during the middle of a fight, that they need goad.

Neither of those are even close to acceptable. I'd much rather be able to make an informed decision by seeing their current TP, rather than for them to stop what they are doing and type it out. I don't want a BRD to stop his AOE just to tell me he needs TP so he can AOE, I want to see it for myself and allow him to AOE without stopping.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Or just have MP visible for casters and TP visible for Melee in the party list. Keep them the same colors we have down at the bottom of the screen as well and you'd have easy checking.

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I'm surprised they haven't done this already. DRG, MNK, NIN, and WAR don't really use MP (unless the WAR has on Flash), so there's really no point in ever seeing their MP amounts, since it will pretty much never be used.

No where in my post did i disagree with the notion of having TP visible.

In fact, I'd very much like the ability to customize the MP bar to display either TP or MP based on a class filter we set in our character options. >_>

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm surprised they haven't done this already. DRG, MNK, NIN, and WAR don't really use MP (unless the WAR has on Flash), so there's really no point in ever seeing their MP amounts, since it will pretty much never be used.

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^ ^ ^ This^ ^ ^

I don't mind having TP displayed as well as MP. I mean, it's already the case for the PC. In the party list, you have your TP showing just fine, but no one else in the party has theirs showing, which is really weird.

I'd say they should split the MP bar horizontally in two and assign one to TP the other to MP and then you have the same amount of space used but it shows both.

As it is right now... I use Goad when I expect AoE fun!... For example, a drg,mnk,bard or other ninja is in my party and tank takes two or three groups?! Goad to my companion! (Funny thing with other ninjas, they see I use goad on them because my macro tells them, but they don't give me Goad back when it wouldn't be bad idea!)

If I'm in party with a caster but the tanker is a warrior I give goad to the warrior to abuse overpower during the AoE fun (I'd love to receive it when I'm with my warrior taking big groups so... I think on it when I'm in the DPS side)

When I'm in party with caster and PLD... Okay... I give it to PLD just for the lulz, and in lulz moments. But once in a dungeon a PLD asked me for "TP regen please". I shocked.

1. Open macro interface
2. /p I need TP nao <se.3>
3. ????
4. Profit!

People should be able to choose which resource (Mp or tp) they want to see for each party member or the bar automatically refreshes to the resource that is used

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Originally Posted by Velox

1. Open macro interface
2. /p I need TP nao (TP: <tp>) <se.3>
3. ????
4. Profit!

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This would be more informative ^^

despite the current system, if you're playing a class that uses a lot of TP (WAR, MNK, etc.) then, since it's now TWO classes that have the ability to restore others' TP, you really should make a macro for it.

The plugin API can't come fast enough.

Remove the Bard skill too then. gosh.

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The usefulness of the skill is rather lessened because we have to be told when to use it.

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No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

WAR spamming Overpower? BRD spamming Wide Volley? DRG spamming Doom Spike? There you go, use it on them.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

WAR spamming Overpower? BRD spamming Wide Volley? DRG spamming Doom Spike? There you go, use it on them.

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With the common tunnel vision syndrome, getting to see a bard to play songs on his own in DF is pure fantasy. Goad just falls into this category, just like summoners that actually use virus or eye4eye.

If mana is important enough that the rest of the team needs to be able to see it so is TP. It was dumb not to include its visibility at launch and it is equally so not to add it now. It is a vital aspect of any fight.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

WAR spamming Overpower? BRD spamming Wide Volley? DRG spamming Doom Spike? There you go, use it on them.

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You miss the entire point. I said the skill was lessened. Very few NINs are using it because they just don't know when they should.
I'm not denying that it's quite easy to tell when somebody might need TP if you pay attention to what they do, but to say that this feature is not needed is completely asinine. This very simple feature should have been in the game long before NINs came to be.

What you're saying is comparable to "A healer should know when to heal by taking notice when people get hit". While that is certainly true, would any competent healer only make use of that, rather then also taking notice of their HP bars? Of course TP isn't nearly as important as HP, but if we have a skill which replenishes ANYTHING, we need to be able to see what we're replenishing. Again, this is basic.

Your OWN TP displays in a position on the party list where it fits perfectly into the UI. It would fit in the EXACT same position on every other member's listing as well relative to their MP bar and buffs.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'd rather have both.

For comparison, I've seen healers asking for Ballad when they clearly still have plenty of MP. Similarly, I'm sure some people would be asking for Goad when they still have plenty of TP.

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I'm not saying people may not do this... But what do you consider "plenty"

If it is during meteors between golems on T9 and I'm at 80% mana... I'm asking for mana song. Why? Well it makes a WHOLE lot of sense to top me off during a phase it will not hurt dps than get down to 15% and I am screaming for mana because I'm at 200.

If they have 700 TP and their invigorate is down and there is no disconnect in sight.. It is a damn good time to get a goad.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

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You mean like those times the bard is ALSO needing the song? Wow aren't you good.

When an INDIVIDUAL (monk or drg) need TP on turn 8... Yes they call for it. The bard doesn't have some magical TP sensing organ that tells them it is time unless they have done the event 20 times and know exactly when the melee is going to need TP for that specific encounter.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

WAR spamming Overpower? BRD spamming Wide Volley? DRG spamming Doom Spike? There you go, use it on them.

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Can you see mana of party members? yes
Should you be able to see TP? yes
Why? same reason

If I ever play as NIN with a WAR, I would happily resupply their TP without being told, problem as it currently is some WAR would be afraid to say anything for the thought of being berated for not maintaining TP. You always run into assholes of those sorts. I mean, you would announce to group you're running out of TP? Or maybe I'm thinking too much into this.. ^^;

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm surprised they haven't done this already. DRG, MNK, NIN, and WAR don't really use MP (unless the WAR has on Flash), so there's really no point in ever seeing their MP amounts, since it will pretty much never be used.

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I always thought why hadn't they implemented like this. FFXI had it.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, you don't. Do you think BRDs should have to be told when to use Paeon, too?

It shouldn't be difficult to identify a party member using a lot of AoE attacks, and these are the ones likely to appreciate some more TP.

WAR spamming Overpower? BRD spamming Wide Volley? DRG spamming Doom Spike? There you go, use it on them.

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So you are against an overall beneficial indicator showing an actual value that should have been in the game at launch?

Your comment disturbs me, especially for new players trying to learn the game. A TP indicator is great reference to see how quickly a job or a player burns through TP.

As I play bard and ninja, both have TP regeneration skills for use on other people. With ninja just like on bard if they want TP regen then ask for it because it's so rare for it to be needed or even wanted that it is more efficient and quicker to press a one button/click macro which says "TP Please" or even just "TP" as opposed to me keeping track of everyone's skill use type, skill use count and skill description/TP cost...while at the same time having to maximize DPS through not just basic rotations, DoT's and CD's but also ninjutsu's odd and risky fail mechanics on ninja, plus as a DPS a need for high level of dodging and maneuvering.

While it might seem handy to dump the additional skill tracking and counting requirements on the ninja from another classes perspective, it is more beneficial, quicker and easier for a simple half a second click of a macro asking for TP given how rare it is that would even need to be used and how you can actually see your TP unlike the rest of us.

Until SE fix the UI and add TP bar for classes that use it as it's main resource then I am sorry but you will have to ask if you want TP regen from me whether I am on bard using peon or ninja using goad. SE decided to give us TP regen skills so it is SE's job to give us an easy and simple way to monitor and manage the parties TP via the UI just like they did for party MP bars.

It's funny how on bard hardly anyone ever asks for or wants me to play peons but all of a sudden people have began to moan and complain just because another class has entered the fray that also has a TP regen skill. People generally seemed quite happy without out it prior to ninjas and hardly ever asked for or said wanting peons played before when on bard which is party TP regen skill, so I have to wonder why making mountains out of molehills now? Just make a one click macro which asks for it when you need it, which to be honest is hardly ever at all.

http://i.imgur.com/xMghd87.png

hire me pls yoshi

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

http://i.imgur.com/xMghd87.png

hire me pls yoshi

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Do you even need numbers? you could just stack the TP/MP bars on top of each other.

They can make both TP and MP bars take half the space if they don't want to clutter the screen, but this should have been available from launch.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

I'm not saying people may not do this... But what do you consider "plenty"

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I'm talking things like Scholars at 30% MP on GX asking for Ballad during a burn phase. >_>

Your second and third paragraphs do make a lot of sense, but they also seem like something that would have been mentioned ahead of time.

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So you are against an overall beneficial indicator showing an actual value that should have been in the game at launch?

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No, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

When people here are saying it's impossible to know when to use Goad without being told, I'm just saying that's wrong. If you're observant enough, you should be able to tell when it would be useful without being able to see the actual numbers.

It might be more difficult to know if rogue is the only non-healer you've ever played, but basically speaking, anyone that's using AoEs frequently would probably like to get a Goad.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

No, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.

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My apologies.

As a BRD and NIN, yes I know when these other jobs would need it and work with what I have.

There are plenty of instances in Duty Finder where I do have to ask for stuff that has obvious indicators even.

My point is rather simple though:
- Not everyone is like me.
- If you aren't getting something you need in an instance and don't ask, you will never get it.
- A visual indicator is Beneficial to everyone, why its been asked for since Beta.
- SE's comment on it being "too much info for a new player" is an excuse IMO.
- MP is shown, yet the only job that can restore for others is BRD.
- TP isn't shown, yet we have 2 jobs that can restore it for others.

Yoshida was all about making this game approachable by all types of players to pick up. I feel not having a TP indicator is countering his vision and also counter to quality of life improvements.