Thief should be a subjob.

Rogue should be a starting class while Thief should remain as a subjob - akin to FFXI. Ninja aside, what kind of skills that makes Thief valuable and differentiate from Rogue? Throw some ideas, borrow some ideas from FFXIV.

I will scourge FFXI Wikipedia.

Specializing in covert actions, Thieves (THF) aim for the perfect opportunity to attack the enemy. Using Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, thieves can inflict massive amounts of damage while 'tricking' the enemy into thinking it was someone else. Thieves also have the ability to steal amounts of enmity from players in their party with the abilities Accomplice and Collaborator. These abilities help to control the party's enmity levels, and trick enemies into thinking that the party's tank is the primary threat. Players starting the game as a Thief receive an Onion Knife.

I will never understand peoples desire to get Thief into this game. Rogue is Thief in all but name.

Thieves also have many tools at their disposal to get out of sticky situations in the game. Not only do they possess the highest Evasion rating in the game, but they also have abilities such as Flee and Hide, which allow them to escape most dangers unharmed. Additional abilities such as Steal, Mug, Gilfinder, and Treasure Hunter, as well as their unique ability to pick Treasure Chests and Treasure Coffers with their thief's tools, makes the Thief the optimal choice for acquiring gil and items.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Thief

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

I will never understand peoples desire to get Thief into this game. Rogue is Thief in all but name.

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Rogue is classified as a scoundrel - a damage based class. Thief employs trickery, a trickster in itself and a mugger of treasures, also a damage based class as well.

I'm really liking Rogue so far. But I don't wanna turn Ninja. I don't like the stigma attached to it. I'd much rather play as a Thief. I really hope they introduce alternate job paths for each of the different classes.

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Originally Posted by Brightwizard

Rogue is classified as a scoundrel - a damage based class. Thief employs trickery, a trickster in itself and a mugger of treasures, also a damage based class as well.

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If you read the story at all, rogues are thieves.

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Originally Posted by Brightwizard

Rogue is classified as a scoundrel - a damage based class. Thief employs trickery, a trickster in itself and a mugger of treasures, also a damage based class as well.

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The problem is this; Naoki Yoshida (FFXIV's director) wanted to call Rogue, "Thief". However, the lore team said that that wouldn't fly because having a guild of thieves inside of a city state wouldn't make sense. Could you imagine down the street from your house are a bunch of blatant criminals who teach you that you should be robbing other people? So because of this line of thinking Thief was renamed to Rogue.

It also has Thief from FFXI's most known moves in it, as well as the iconic skill, "Mug". So unless they decide they want to add Thief as a secondary job to Rogue, we can just assume that Rogue is Thief and that's the end of the train of thought for the people currently working at SE. You don't have to like it but as per my sig, I perfectly understand why it'd be pointless (check that link if you want the full story).

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Originally Posted by Exstal

The problem is this; Naoki Yoshida (FFXIV's director) wanted to call Rogue, "Thief". However, the lore team said that that wouldn't fly because having a guild of thieves inside of a city state wouldn't make sense. Could you imagine down the street from your house are a bunch of blatant criminals who teach you that you should be robbing other people? So because of this line of thinking Thief was renamed to Rogue.

It also has Thief from FFXI's most known moves in it, as well as the iconic skill, "Mug". So unless they decide they want to add Thief as a secondary job to Rogue, we can just assume that Rogue is Thief and that's the end of the train of thought for the people currently working at SE. You don't have to like it but as per my sig, I perfectly understand why it'd be pointless (check that link if you want the full story).

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You don't have to indoctrinate me with your opinion. Your sig means nothing.

Except, aside from the sig, it was 100% fact.

I suggest a challenge!
Make a Thief Job with the 5 allotted skills all jobs get (minus any set up skills like Ninja's Mudras) using Rouge as a base, that isn't a carbon copy of Ninja.

What thief does
-Wear daggers
-Use steal
-turn steal into Mug with an accessory or after a few job levels

What rogue does
-wear daggers
-use mug
-have a ton of other abilities that actually make them useful

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Originally Posted by Exstal

The problem is this; Naoki Yoshida (FFXIV's director) wanted to call Rogue, "Thief". However, the lore team said that that wouldn't fly because having a guild of thieves inside of a city state wouldn't make sense. Could you imagine down the street from your house are a bunch of blatant criminals who teach you that you should be robbing other people? So because of this line of thinking Thief was renamed to Rogue.

It also has Thief from FFXI's most known moves in it, as well as the iconic skill, "Mug". So unless they decide they want to add Thief as a secondary job to Rogue, we can just assume that Rogue is Thief and that's the end of the train of thought for the people currently working at SE. You don't have to like it but as per my sig, I perfectly understand why it'd be pointless (check that link if you want the full story).

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But even so, the guild itself is hidden. I don't really see much of a difference lol.

This is a complete slap to the face for all THF players, we get no story past lvl 30, no AF, no relic, no THF specific abilities, and it seems trying to play it endgame isnt going to work. And dont give me that crap just use NIN, I want to main THF.... so get crackin Yoshi fix your mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Meier

But even so, the guild itself is hidden. I don't really see much of a difference lol.

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"hidden" haha

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Originally Posted by AkiraBeaty

This is a complete slap to the face for all THF players, we get no story past lvl 30, no AF, no relic, no THF specific abilities, and it seems trying to play it endgame isnt going to work. And dont give me that crap just use NIN, I want to main THF.... so get crackin Yoshi fix your mistakes.

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That would imply it was an accident.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

I will never understand peoples desire to get Thief into this game. Rogue is Thief in all but name.

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it's about identity

classes essentially don't exist after level 30, and people (like myself) prefer the aesthetic of thief over ninja

i understand that thief will never be a part of this game, but if i want to play a dagger-wielding job at max level i'll have to be a ninja

at any rate... threads like this don't really serve a purpose anymore, it's clear ninja will be the only dagger-wielding job in this game, and no amount of complaining will change it

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I suggest a challenge!
Make a Thief Job with the 5 allotted skills all jobs get (minus any set up skills like Ninja's Mudras) using Rouge as a base, that isn't a carbon copy of Ninja.

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Hmmm... I think it could be done. NIN gets its uniqueness from Ninjutsu, and while its true THFs abilities have been spread out over ROG, there could be a few things added.

Despoil - An attack with a potency of 100 with an effect that varies based on position.
Front: Inflicts Slow+20%
Back: Enemy damage dealt -10%
Sides: Inflicts a DoT. Potency: 40 Duration: 30s
Recast: 120s

Kiss of the Spider - Increases damage dealt by 15%
Allows Sneak Attack to be used without the aid of hide, but triples its recast time.
Shares recast with Kiss of the Wasp and Kiss of the Viper.

Rudra's Storm - An attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Ability: Gust Slash Combo Potency: 250
Combo Effect: Inflicts heavy gravity effect on target and reduces is
accuracy and evasion. Effect duration: 15 Seconds

Evisceration - An Attack with a potency of 100
Combo Ability: Mutilate - Combo Potency: 200
Combo Effect: Inflicts a DoT with a potency of 40, Evisceration has
an increased chance to critical hit when on the targets flank.
DoT Duration: 18s

Collaborater - Reduces the enmity level of target player by 25%. Increases
your enmity level by the same amount.
Recast: 120s

Ambush - Delivers an attack with a potency of 250 with an effect that varies based on your position.
Front: Enemy elemental resistance -10%. Duration: 15s
Sides: Player Critical Hit rate +10%. Duration: 15s
Back: Increases potency to 450.
Recast: 300s (Their final ability)

I mean, every DD is kinda a carbon copy of the other. You have your basic 1/2/3 set, your DoT/combo off set, and a few other unique things. So yah... positional stuff kinda sucks but it works for MNK and if done right is pretty awesome. Also, I wanted, for obvious reason, to name "Kiss of the Spider", "Kiss of the Shark", but... sharks aren't venomous ;; ... These are just ideas that were spitballed to show it is possible to make a THF job thats not a carbon of NIN.

HOWEVER - Its not to say I want that. Personally, ROG/NIN is good for me, I love the THF class in pretty much every game I play, I enjoy i thoroughly and in XI it was no different... NIN fills the THF void for me just fine, so I don't necessarily think THF needs to be added, but I'm saying it probably could be done.

Rogue, while it was meant to be named "thief", covers a different path than the traditional Thief class imo, being more like shadow-police than people who actually steal things. In terms of lore, adding Thief to the game would fit well in Ul'dah, where the rich seem to keep the poor down. That's an example, but it would work well in Ishgard as well I think.

Rogues could have just been "Assassin" and there would be little difference. A thief, on the other hand, would represent a more robin-hood style approach. Of course, there are bad thieves who steal from any easy target, but that's what would set the Thief's guild apart.

Soon there will be two knights who use swords and magic of some kind... Thief could wield a single dagger, holding it upright or something. These things are possible and worthwhile if you ask me, a bit of creative thinking could set them apart from ROG/NIN fairly easily too.

If one day they decide to put Thief as a job, i really hope they put some party enmity management back. Such a nice feeling to be your tank best Buddy :)

Glamour ilv110 then don't use ninjitsu. Congradulations you are now a THF.

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Originally Posted by Nama

Glamour ilv110 then don't use ninjitsu. Congradulations you are now a THF.

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Congratulations, you cant play endgame. After playing Rogue since 2.4 went out i can definitely say that is not Thief. You cant even stealth in combat, you have to use Suiton to use Trick attack or Sneak attack..

Speaking to lore. Rogue, or reformed Thief is about as close to actual Thief a job could get. Elsewise npcs would have to overlook the Warrior of Light being for lack of a better term a "bad guy".

Aside from that there really isn't a place for lockpicking or theft mechanics in FFXIV and Thief in combat would struggle to seperate it's self from Rogue/Ninja.

First, the classes are never named for common jobs from the FF multiverse. The only class in the game that even has another game with the same class name is arcanist, and that's fairly obscure.

So, the 'thief' class wouldn't be called thief any more than the class that uses elemental magic from the world around them is named geomancer. That's not how this game operates in terms of naming.


Second, the Rogue Guild is also called the Guild of Upright Thieves. They do the things that thieves do, just to pirates who break the code. That and outright assassination too. And they speak in cant. They're not only thieves by deed... it's in their NAME.

Finally, wtf is a 'subjob' in FF14? What does that even MEAN? Do you even play this game?