The current withdraw penalty is too harsh and it negatively effects partial groups a lot and users who are not trying to do anything bad get punished.
A lot of times parties that don't have a full 8 or 4 are punished because 1 guy is afk and you didn't know. Or someone hits cancel because they were checking their retainer. Got a 30 min cool down because the party lead queued and one guy withdrew because he was getting something from his retainer, the PT lead queued again and the same guy withdrew again because he still wasn't ready. 3rd time everyone clicked but one guy who apparently left for a bathroom brake and didn't say anything because he thought he had time because of the retainer guy. Needless to say everyone got locked out for 30 min and the group disbanded.
This also makes it so you can't go the bathroom or leave the room without the fear you will be penalized. Before I would go do other stuff if it was taking awhile like use the bathroom or get a drink and now I can't without risk of penalty.
Lets look at what causes the problem they are trying to fix. 1 person withdrawing a bunch of times. This is usually caused by a tank or healer trying fish for a run in progress for dungeons or crystal tower.
Now SE realized the reason people were doing this when crystal tower first came out the duty finder would tell you if you were going in to a in progress run and put like X/4 telling you how many bosses were killed. Later they changed it to always say 0/1 for all in progress runs. However this did little to stop people from withdrawing a bunch because even though the game told you 0/1 in progress it was still telling you that you were getting an in progress run and possibly closer to the last boss where you get the best drops and limited tomes. Also SE never changed the way dungeons in progress worked they still gave you 1/3, 2/3 ect bosses killed making people who wanted fish for runs cap myth or soldiery faster constantly fish for runs.
The very simple fix for this problem is to not show at all if you are getting a in progression run at all for all raids and dungeons.
I have played wow some and they had the same problem when with their dungeon and raid finder, it would tell you if a run was in progress and how many bosses were killed. People (tanks+healers) kept withdrawing resetting the queue a bunch in hopes of getting a run on the last boss so they could get their Valor points which are very similar to the limited tomestone in FFXIV. When Blizzard took out the indicator that showed if a run was in progress all the withdrawing nonsense pretty much stopped except for the very rare occasion which usually was because someone was afk or not ready. However constant withdraws were gone.
So SE its a lot better just to take away the in progress indicator which will fix the problem then to punish players who may not of been ready or if someone in your group was afk. Having a 30 min lockout cause your party mates were checking their retainer and hit withdraw isn't fun.
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11-01-2014, 05:30 PMZumiWithdrawl penalty too harsh, a better way to fix the mutiple withdrawls
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11-01-2014, 05:33 PMCedane
Except people are still going to do it. Even if it pops up, a troll is still going to withdrawal anyway. Thats not going to change anything at all.
And I don't think it needs to be changed. Its working as intended, and withdrawals have gone down. I've noticed it on my end and I can give kudos to SE. If you don't want to be locked out, be prepared first. If your locked due to a troll in the party and you know it, kick him, report him, and just wait it out.
Its perfectly fine and it doesn't need a change. Its not perfect but I'd rather have this. -
11-01-2014, 05:34 PMZumiExcept they weren't trying to troll they were checking their retainer, or were afk for bathroom without saying anything are the usual causes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedane
If you look at the problem is casued by people trying to get a run in progress more then anything else. Not some guy who says "I am going with drawl from CT 200 times in a row to screw with people" which could happen once in a blue moon but usually is not the cause. It's the people that want a in progress run that are doing it 99.99% of the time that cause mass withdrawls, -
11-01-2014, 05:40 PMLaerune
[QUOTE=Cedane;2552011]Except people are still going to do it. Even if it pops up, a troll is still going to withdrawal anyway. Thats not going to change anything at all.
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11-01-2014, 05:41 PMZumi
It worked in another game so it would work in FFXIV.
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11-01-2014, 05:55 PMSqua11_Leonhart
working as intended
ITS CALLED READY CHECK. use it people. -
11-01-2014, 06:43 PMkuikui
Don't blame SE and others for your own incompetence. If you are going to queue, be preparedn to hit accept. There simply is no excuse.
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11-01-2014, 06:45 PMNevaldus
I love this new withdrawal lockout, it's working perfectly, queues for CT1 -2 are not full of trolls anymore, if i am about to queue i always make sure no distractions wil come up, if someone is going to check a retainer or go bathroom while in a queue, it's their problem and their risk, also as someone said before me "Ready Check" is your best friend.
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11-01-2014, 06:58 PMxvshanevx
Nope. Loving it.
I have noticed much less "A player has Withdrawn..." recently.
Simply put, if you have more important things to do, then go do them.
Such as:
-Laundry
-Feeding the kids
-Having sex
-Middle of a fate as a ROG or NIN
-Being a Troll
-Drunk
-Microwaving some Ramen
-Taking a piss
-Taking a poop
-The list goes on...
What I do now... I "Withdraw" if I need to do something... and you should too. -
11-01-2014, 07:11 PMGralnahttp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/1...867d367c_o.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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11-01-2014, 07:26 PMCedaneTHIS. Right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart
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11-01-2014, 07:51 PMharriaal
Only problem is that a huge pile of Rogues/Ninjas makes queueing to low level dungeons last sometimes over an hour, sometimes 2. So excuse me if I dont withdraw for going to the kitchen for 30 sec (only to see the stupid "Locked out" sign after coming back)
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11-01-2014, 07:57 PMXine
Maybe I'm just too annoyed and irritated with dealing with having to click the "Commence" button 40+ times to get into a single instance, but I personally don't think the restrictions are harsh enough. However I don't foresee them adjusting the penalty to be any stronger than they currently are, in which case I'll gladly take what we've been given.
I've made a few posts regarding this very issue a few times in the past 6 or so months (when ever they added the Labyrinth of the Ancients) and have been asking for this to be added, however I recall asking for the restrictions to be quite a bit stronger myself, and would be more than happy to agree to deal with the exact same terms given I "accidentally" hit Withdraw myself. It can be annoying, but I'd rather have less problems entering a dungeon/instance than being forced to wait 2 hours to get into a dungeon that only takes about 20-40 minutes to clear. Inb4 "Gather an entire group beforehand and make a preformed", yea good luck gathering 24 people to go do Syrcus Tower in Party Finder. -
11-01-2014, 09:17 PMMarisela
One simple fix I don't know SE doesn't do is why doesn't SE just remove the window that show "In Progress." ONLY SHOW this Windows when you press Commence. There you go, problem is solved. No more Fishing.
The system right now is fine. But one thing I don't get and why they are making it more complicated is that why when someone don't press commence, the whole party get the Penalty? It does not make sense. Shouldn't it atleast make it the person that doing it is getting the penalty?
But I'm more of, just remove the window that show "In Progress." Only show when pressing commence. -
11-02-2014, 12:00 AMpageybear
I thought you only get penalized if you withdraw one time. So if you miss a queue for being in the bathroom or kitchen, shouldn't you be fine? I withdrew from one last night because i looked at the time and realized it was much later than i thought. I still was able to help an fc mate out with a primal real quick.
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11-02-2014, 01:39 AMRoris
The penalty is fine for people queuing solo or in premades, the problem is it shouldn't also apply to everyone in that party especially those who did click Accept, just the exact people who clicked Withdraw or didn't click in time.
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11-02-2014, 02:09 AMAsahinaMyLoveIts good at it is now! o.O
Im damn happy about the change!
So these trolls, wich want desperately join an active dungeon instance, are sortet out! :D
If you dont have time play - dont join duty finder.
For partys who want to join dungeon:
We have ready checks: if some1 dont react 3x during that checks, then dismiss that probably afking player so these other people left in the party dont get dungeon lockout becaus of an afk-player. o.o -
11-02-2014, 02:11 AMKimikryoif they are checking their retainer ... that is not an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
afk happens .... but not 20 times in a row.
There is however ONE thing, people seem to forget.
When the party leader forgets he still has another dungeon than he is queuing for with the group, and the wrong dungeon pops, it is either dismiss or do it so you don't get your first strinke :x -
11-02-2014, 02:22 AMAdeline
Obviously the OP wasn't Qing for Frontlines when it first came out...
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11-02-2014, 02:34 AMKaiKatzchen
I love it, been getting into thing first time with out playing 'Bingo' constantly with players flipping in and out. I think it's great and I don't think it's too harsh. People shouldn't queue up unless they are ready to go. Once I'm queued I don't get up and go get a drink or go to the bathroom etc, I do that all before hand. If it is a legit excuse such as an emergency, then that is understandable, but then that person will be kicked after the first time and won't get multiple hits against them anyway.
So I have no issues with this new set up, this kitty is a happy kitty! :3 -
11-02-2014, 02:38 AMMugiawara
I still wanna know if I had no strikes and I withdrawal once in my party, does anyone get a penalty.
Or do they on my 3rd? Not saying I'm playing Withdrawl troll, just wanna make sure if I HAPPEN to miss it once,
I don't get my party screwed.
This isn't clicking for me lol. Wouldn't that would mean everyone gets the heat from his then? Me withdrawnin' = his 3rd strike and he gets everyone penalizedQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Legacy
from just my one strike. xD! This is hilarious lol.
Yeebers, play safe guys lol. -
11-02-2014, 03:00 AMShadray
I think a better idea would be a shorter lockout without any chances but only applied to the offending person.
For example a10 min lockout if you push withdraw or time out. This would stop fishers and trolls without harming innocent players. -
11-02-2014, 03:05 AMDark_LegacyEach player get's it on their third strike, for example if you have no strikes and withdraw once in your party and someone already had 2 strikes they would get a penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
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11-02-2014, 03:18 AMAdeline
After reading over a few things, it does seem unfair to punish a whole party simply because one person is hitting withdraw. I think they need to implement it where the person hitting withdraw is being punished, not the whole party. Who know's when it will be fixed though.
Still at the same time, this is SE's first way of combating trolls. It's not perfect, but it gets the point across. Unfortunately (well fortunate too), you can learn who the trolls on your servers are if you are using PF to set up groups for DF.