Don't know why, but I was told to get the Ifrit-egi out, and then about twice after, during Brayflox Longstop, as it kept being knocked out.
I thought the Topaz would still be ideal, given the amount of HP its got, in the dungeon stages throughout the game.
Topaz or Ifrit-Egi, which is useful in dungeon areas?
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11-01-2014, 12:27 AM-DMR-Topaz or Ifrit-Egi, which is useful in dungeon areas?
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11-01-2014, 12:31 AMCorfish
Topaz/Titan-egi will have its use, but only if you absolutely need a second tank (which you shouldn't in 4 man dungeons), or while playing solo. Otherwise you should use Ifrit (higher DPS, which is the important thing for your class) until you hit level 40 when you will switch to Emerald/Garuda-egi. Use Sustain to keep Ifrit alive. It is extremely cost efficient, so pop one off if you notice him taking damage.
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11-01-2014, 12:31 AMAlberel
Topaz carbuncle (later Titan-egi) is a tank... it builds extra enmity with its attacks which is sure to annoy the rest of your party because it makes the tank's job a hell of a lot harder when the summoner's pet keeps taking aggro.
Topaz carbuncle also does inferior damage to ifrit and garuda so by not using the dps pets you're not fulfilling your role to the best of your ability. If your pet keeps dying then you need to use sustain more or learn to position your pets manually. -
11-01-2014, 12:32 AMLord_Zlatan
As a summoner Ifrit adds significantly to your DPS in that stage of the game. Eventually you will switch to Garuda who adds even more to your party as a whole.
Overall, Garuda is the go to summon for group content. Situationally Ifrit and Titan are useful. At 50 I don't think u will ever use carbuncle again. -
11-01-2014, 12:32 AMNajaraCan you explain why Topaz tanking would make the tanks job harder?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
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11-01-2014, 12:38 AMDelilyGouge and Shining Topaz both generate enmity. Plus, ifrit-egi's attacks do more damage..Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
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11-01-2014, 12:44 AMNajaraYes, they generate enmity. But enmity is only stolen if there isn't sufficient aggro on the mob in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delily
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11-01-2014, 12:49 AM-DMR-
Ok, I might have another go at Brayflox Longstop or a later dungeon, when I get round to it.
Is there a sustain option for Ifrit? Can't remember, but I only have it for the Topaz. -
11-01-2014, 12:54 AMEcks007It becomes a constant battle because, yes a tank can generate enmity enough to hold the monsters, but all of Titan-Egi's attacks generate emnity as if he was trying to tank. Tanks then have to put even more effort into making sure their enmity is the highest because they have a Summoner's pet constantly trying to battle it away from them as that is Titan-Egi/Topaz Carbuncle's job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
And as others have said already. It's quite easy to keep Ifrit-Egi alive. Use Sustain relatively frequently when you see it taking damage. Or do yourself a favor and level up Thaumaturge/Black Mage for Swift Cast so that if you aren't going to keep Ifrit alive with Sustain you can at least instantly re-summon him when he dies.
It makes no sense for a summoner to use their tanking pet unless it's some kind of already agreed upon strategy in party of abnormal make-up. (ie. no tank class/job)
Sustain is a lvl 18 Arcanist skill. It is used with all pets to give them a heal over time. When you get Rouse at lvl 42 it can be used before Sustain to boost Sustain's healing effectiveness (as well as Physick/Cure heals on your pet).Quote:
Originally Posted by -DMR-
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11-01-2014, 12:56 AMNajaraAnd I say people who make this argument are blowing it out of proportion. As if having Titan take damage for them is such a dreadfully awful thing. There is no battle, just ego.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecks007
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11-01-2014, 01:01 AMEcks007Um.. yeah. In case you hadn't noticed there's a threat bar by each player's name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
Having your tank pet out does pose problems for another tank. Now yes, a good tank can still keep aggro. But why are you as a Summoner lowering your dps for having a tank pet out when you already have a functional tank? (granted if you don't have a functional tank, or a terrible one, then that might be cause to have your tank pet out.. but otherwise.. no) -
11-01-2014, 01:02 AMParodineTo some extent, I agree. That a pet taking damage for the tank isn't a bad thing. But a Summoner's role should primarily be there to DPS, so unless the tank is inherently terrible, you're gimping your DPS output by not using a caster or attacker pet in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
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11-01-2014, 01:03 AMTeryaaniI'd be more annoyed that it's doing less damage and making the fight last longer than I would be about losing hate to it. Assuming the healer isn't healing it (and they shouldn't), the problem will solve itself as the mobs chew it up. Most tanks I've seen don't bother competing with it. If the SMN wants to keep using topaz or titan-egi, they can suck up the constant re-summons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecks007
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11-01-2014, 01:05 AMDelilySeriously, why is this a 'thing'? Garuda and ifrit do more damage than Titan; if you're having issues keeping either one alive, that just means you need to maintain sustain and cast physik on them. There is no ego at work, just that Titan isn't the best choice for groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
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11-01-2014, 01:10 AMNajara
The only point I want to get out there is that there are uses for him, especially in lower level dungeons, that no one ever wants to talk about. You don't fight a good tank for aggro obviously, but you don't neglect him just because there's a tank in a four man party either.
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11-01-2014, 01:12 AMkidvideo
Titan-egi in Aurum Vale... that's about for McNugget.
Efrit-egi is you're on a single target, stationary & minimal to no AOE worries...
Otherwise, Garuda-egi, which is 90%-95% of the time. -
11-01-2014, 01:33 AMKyrosIt disrupts the battle. As DPS, having the mob turn around is extremely annoying for position-based attacks. As a Tank, you can either fight the pet for hate or let it get it. If for whatever reason the pet has it and I have to move the enemies, typically the SMN won't move the egi, and now we have mobs split not getting hit by AoE's until I move them back to the egi (IF, too often its ranged mobs that wont budge).Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
Also, all this comes at the cost of... doing less DPS. There is simply no reason to do this unless your Tank is absolutely horrible, which is a valid excuse to get Topaz out.
Also for the OP. Do Ifrit till Garuda. Learn to use Sustain, and by the love of gods OBEY the pet. Ifrit will do its stun randomly if not obeyed and that will build resistance on the mobs (On top of doing less damage). -
11-01-2014, 02:22 AMNajaraI suppose the things you're mentioning is something that you can only learn by experience. Typically I know exactly where I can use my Titan-egi without it influencing anything, and I use it to benefit the less experienced tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyros
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11-01-2014, 02:31 AMRiceisNiceAs people have said, it's pretty annoying and detrimental to melee dps that requires the enemy to be stationary (which includes them not turning around) for positional bonuses. And speaking from a warrior perspective, early level fighting for aggro will take time away from me using maim combo, and even then you're lowering your overall dps to compensate (when you're going in as a dps role no less.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
To put it in perspective;
A. The tank and titan/topaz are fighting for aggro. This is not needed and best base scenario is that you're losing out on dps.
B. The tank can't hold aggro properly and they stay on the titan/topaz the entire fight. This is something on the tank's end...most of the time anyway.
C. The tank is undergeared and will die relatively fast tanking one pull, and you use titan to hold off aggro on one of them...in which case that's on the tank queuing into an undergeared dungeon to begin with.
In the case of B, there's better ways of them learning to tank without you having to interfere and stealing aggro off them...because really the important thing is that they keep aggro off of the dps and healer, not your tanking summon. -
11-01-2014, 02:57 AMApolloGenX
Yes, please risk spinning the mob to kill the group with a sub par dps pet. That is helpful.
Lower level tanks with fewer tools benefit from this the most. -
11-01-2014, 04:16 AMGilraen
I think the point here is that the tank has enough work cut out for them, they don't need another tank to make things any harder. So your pet dies (alot), just resummon it. No big deal. At least resummoning doesn't come out of the healer's MP like a dead party member would.
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11-01-2014, 05:24 AMLemuriaThe best help you can do for inexperienced tanks is to give them advice. They won't learn by having Titan tanking on their behalf, it's merely a crutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Najara
Topaz/Titan tends to do more harm than good when summoned in a party as it can turn the enemy around to face the summoner and mages. When this includes cleave based attacks, such as gigas' swings it can easily do a lot of damage to less armored players who may not realise to move out of the way due to the constant back-and-forth aggro. It's simply bad form to use it as standard, and even your starter pet Emerald Carbuncle is preferable to a Titan summoning.
I speak here equally as a Summoner, a Healer and a Tank. I've seen the best and the worst it can do and can honestly say it has no place in a party.