Warrior with Ninja- Slashing Debuff

I, for one, was very happy to hear that a dps class was getting a slashing damage debuff. Removing a combo from the rotation and keeping a higher up-time on Storm's Path sounds like a good deal to me.

Reading through the dps forums makes me think they intend to make us their buff-bitch, though... :confused:


While I do like to do more damage, IMO, it's more beneficial to the group to have War debuff damage and Nin debuff slash resist.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by TemariVtwo

I, for one, was very happy to hear that a dps class was getting a slashing damage debuff. Removing a combo from the rotation and keeping a higher up-time on Storm's Path sounds like a good deal to me.

Reading through the dps forums makes me think they intend to make us their buff-bitch, though... :confused:


While I do like to do more damage, IMO, it's more beneficial to the group to have War debuff damage and Nin debuff slash resist.

Thoughts?

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It's more beneficial to the group to end the fight as quickly as possible. Can't take damage if it's dead. Us using the slashing buff basically shoots their DPS through the roof.

Storm's eye all the way. I'll really only use Path if the entire raid is going down hill due to struggling heals. (Even then, that's mostly the raids fault if you're geared. >_>)

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Originally Posted by TemariVtwo

I, for one, was very happy to hear that a dps class was getting a slashing damage debuff. Removing a combo from the rotation and keeping a higher up-time on Storm's Path sounds like a good deal to me.

Reading through the dps forums makes me think they intend to make us their buff-bitch, though... :confused:


While I do like to do more damage, IMO, it's more beneficial to the group to have War debuff damage and Nin debuff slash resist.

Thoughts?

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Nah. War should do it. War should always be doing it. Ninja loses significant damage to do it. Though I wish they had made it 30 seconds. Upgrading to 20 doesn't really do that much for us.

I don't see it as making us a "buff-bitch". I see it as warrior getting some love. Ever run with a Bard and think to yourself.... man.. I wish I had a dragoon in the party for Disembowel? That's just one more reason to have a war.

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Originally Posted by Steady

Nah. War should do it. War should always be doing it. Ninja loses significant damage to do it. Though I wish they had made it 30 seconds. Upgrading to 20 doesn't really do that much for us.

I don't see it as making us a "buff-bitch". I see it as warrior getting some love. Ever run with a Bard and think to yourself.... man.. I wish I had a dragoon in the party for Disembowel? That's just one more reason to have a war.

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Actually upgrading it to 20s allows you to rotate all three combos without dropping any debuffs with some skillspeed

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Originally Posted by Fue

Actually upgrading it to 20s allows you to rotate all three combos without dropping any debuffs with some skillspeed

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Yeah... It's pretty nice.

What is the required skill speed for this?

It does allow a Warrior MT to completely skip using SE, and get more BB's in while keeping up SP. Which is more damage overall and both debuffs.

As an OT, rotating SE/SP/BB, without either debuff falling off, would require a little over 461(2.38 sec gcd) skill speed. Rotating all three as MT would require more than that accounting for IB. This is from a few minutes on a training dummy.

Overall, IMO, it's not worth it to even try and itemize skill speed, you lose too many other valuable stats. Without any skill speed, as OT your debuffs would be down for about 1 gcd.

I don't think it's even probable to weave all three combos in as MT, considering the loss of threat from fewer BB combos.

If you use all 3 combos, you'll lose uptime on the buffs for 1 GCD. Not a huge deal IMO, the SE buff duration to 20s is very welcome. War OT should probably use all 3 combos.

MT might need to prioritize BB a bit more in the beginning but once you get a big enough hate lead you should be able to use all 3 combos again as well.

The general thing is, there's 1 warrior tank rotation and there's 1 dps rotation...

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Originally Posted by Ojikuh

The general thing is, there's 1 warrior tank rotation and there's 1 dps rotation...

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Even in my tankiest of tank gear, I can effortnessly change to DPS increasing combo without any concerns of hate lost. Though personally, I like the fact that our buffs/debuffs don't generate additional enmity, makes it easier to contribute to damage without stealing hate as off tank.

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Originally Posted by Steady

Nah. War should do it. War should always be doing it. Ninja loses significant damage to do it.

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Just got my ninja to lvl46 and i must say that its pretty annoying to keep that up while maintaining 2 DoT's specially when other only lasts 18s, so if war can take that one debuff upkeep away it will make ninjas life alot easier :3

So, if your "Main Tanking", you should NOT be applying your Slashing Debuff as a WAR. it's NOT worth it in your rotations. If you're "Off Tank" on a single boss, then you should ALWAYS be applying both of your Debuffs. When you're MT'ing, tell your Ninja to not be a bitch and apply the Debuff whenever it comes down. The slashing debuff can buff 3 whole classes, PLD, WAR, and NIN, thats a nice boost across all three classes, which adds up to a nice chunk.

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Originally Posted by nijian

So, if your "Main Tanking", you should NOT be applying your Slashing Debuff as a WAR. it's NOT worth it in your rotations. If you're "Off Tank" on a single boss, then you should ALWAYS be applying both of your Debuffs. When you're MT'ing, tell your Ninja to not be a bitch and apply the Debuff whenever it comes down. The slashing debuff can buff 3 whole classes, PLD, WAR, and NIN, thats a nice boost across all three classes, which adds up to a nice chunk.

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ER what.... doing more damage is always worth it. If your main tanking, you have constant threat generation... and you should have more than enough to increase your own damage, i.e. Maim and Storms. It's damage left on the table otherwise.

The only time Ninja should need to worry about a slashing debuff when War is sharing the same mob is when there are more than one. Like Adds on levi or something.

I am probably going to switch to NIN in my static, and I will probably open with the slashing debuff combo to let my berserked WAR get a big enmity lead. After the first 20s wears off I will expect my WAR tank to keep up Storm's to help my dps.

Its going to depend on the group.

You need to do maim combos anyway as MT. You can get strength down from an OT paladin as damage reduction but not a slashing debuff. With a war OT the point is moot. With any 4-man there's never a reason to use path.

IMO, it's harder to make dps checks in most fights than it is to keep the tank alive. But you can have pretty high uptime on both anyway.

Pre-2.4 content, WAR should do SE since it's the higher DPS option. T10+, it's a different tune, Storm's Path is very useful in the new turns, bosses and mechanics alike can hit like trucks.

We're not running a NIN in raid (yet) but we'd have it use the slashing debuff combo in favor of perma-Storm's Path.

The increased duration on Storm's Eye allows you to comfortably fit 2 more GCDs in your rotation. As a MT, your best bet is to alternate SE and BB combos while fitting in Fracture and Inner Beast as soon as you hit 5 stacks. This is a fairly nice buff to WAR MT DPS.

If you're in a situation where you need to hold onto Inner Beast in anticipation of a big hit, then you likely want the SP debuff also. This is the situation where you'll want to alternate all three combos.

Also, an OT can now do SE > BB > Fracture easily for maximum damage instead of SE > Fracture > SE > BB.