What are the Pathwalkers

I wnat to know what the Pathwalkers are (besides being echo users and a 1.0 concept). I think they might have a connection to the Student's of Baldesion's disappearances.

Okay let me elaborate: I heard somewhere that some of the Pathwalkers sent on a journey and they won;t explain their experiences Where did they go and what do you know happened?

They're just the members of Minfilia's previous organization, the Path of the Twelve.

Yeah, it was just a term given to members of the Path of the Twelve ('path', 'walk', get it?), but it was also a term used by Minfilia in version 1.0 to describe the both metaphorical and physical journey undertaken by members of the Path to uncover the secrets of the Echo.

Minfilia actually remarked when a player first joined the Path that there were many Walkers (i.e. Echo users) who had set out to investigate the Echo, and that not only did many never return, every one who did had been changed by the experience, refusing steadfastly to reveal exactly what it was they had discovered, as mentioned here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Fade to White'

Minfilia: "Very good. I pray together that we can learn more of this gift... for though we have scoured the realm for nigh on ten years, I fear there is still little we understand."
Minfilia: "Scores of men and women have passed through our doors looking to find answers, and scores have embarked on quests to do just that... but their efforts have gained us little... and many have not returned."
Minfilia: "Of those few who have... not one is willing to speak of what they saw at the end of the Path. It is as if they all bore witness to a truth too terrible... or too shameful to be told."
Minfilia: "There are those here who would have me use the Echo to delve into the past of the returned. Yet it would be wrong of me to use my gift to tear that truth from them against their will. Were I to condone such an act of violation, we would be no different from the monsters people think us already."

---

In some respects the Path of the Twelve was run a little differently to how it's successor post-Calamity is operated - here the Path was very much a research Guild devoted simply to the study of the Echo and the subtle use of it to better the lives of the people of Eorzea. Minfilia adopted a strictly pacifistic approach when it came to interacting with the citystates - in fact, none of the citystates even knew it existed, other than the Ala Mhigan Resistance.

Additionally, a great deal of their members (the titiual 'Walkers') were ordinary people and not just adventurers, merchants, craftsmen, even young children), so Minfilia took great care to only assigning those who she thought could handle a certain situation to the most potentially dangerous tasks (which naturally ended up being the missions the player was sent). As a final safeguard, Minfilia would assign Walkers partners who would work together on missions given by the organization, whom were called 'Path Companions'.

In any event, this all became moot after the Calamity when a great deal of the Path's members were wiped out in the Battle of Carteneau, and thus Minfilia and the surviving members were sort out by the Circle of Knowing, who decided to pool their resources and amalgamate to form the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

So yeah, the term 'Walker of the Path' was basically version 1.0's equivalent of 'Scion of the Seventh Dawn'. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Minfilia actually remarked when a player first joined the Path that there were many Walkers (i.e. Echo users) who had set out to investigate the Echo, and that not only did many never return, every one who did had been changed by the experience, refusing steadfastly to reveal exactly what it was they had discovered, as mentioned here:

---

Yeah That's what I want to know about, the echo users that tried to investigate the ability

Well, I hate to say it, but you are out of luck sadly, as that quote from Fade to White was really all that was revealed on the subject. The Path of the Twelve storyline in 1.0 was sadly abandoned without being completed when Yoshi took over as producer as the storyline was repurposed for the Seventh Umbral Era.

I've heard that datamining of the 1.0 client however has apparently revealed dialogue glimpses of how the Path story was to continue after it's final completed mission Future's Perfect, where the player is sent to investigate the kobolds only to inadvertently stumble into Titan's very first summoning (and the resulting battle between Titan and the Company of Heroes), but nothing is known with certainty (and there was no further discussion about the 'shameful truth found at the end of the Path' either).

I could speculate of what it was exactly the 'shameful' truth that members of the Path of the Twelve inadvertently uncovered, but as I'm usually wrong when it comes to speculating on how the storyline turns out I'm going to keep silent for now. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I could speculate of what it was exactly the 'shameful' truth that members of the Path of the Twelve inadvertently uncovered, but as I'm usually wrong when it comes to speculating on how the storyline turns out I'm going to keep silent for now.

---

Well, whatever Iceheart discovered through the Echo was evidently shameful enough for her to believe in the need to become a primal to save Eorzea. And, more importantly, she believed that this is what Hydaelyn herself wants.

How Iceheart came to have the Echo is anybody's guess. The Ascians are involved, but I don't think it was them who gave her the power, but rather that they knew she had the gift and somehow manipulated her to where she is today.

Which leads me to wonder: What of the missing Pathwalkers, those who never returned from their journeys? Some of them are probably dead, but what of those who remain alive? Where are they now, and do they still have the Echo?

Iceheart is probably not one of the lost Pathwalkers, as Minfilia would probably remember her otherwise.

It also brings up another question: Has it ever been confirmed that the Scions also comprise members who possess the Echo, besides Minfilia and you, the main character? It seems to me that there are no longer any other known Echo-users, other than these "two" people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It also brings up another question: Has it ever been confirmed that the Scions also comprise members who possess the Echo, besides Minfilia and you, the main character? It seems to me that there are no longer any other known Echo-users, other than these "two" people.

---

It hasn't been confirmed that any members of the Scions have the Echo, but it's very likely. The Echo isn't as rare an ability as ARR implies. The Path of the Twelve was formed because there were suddenly so many people coming into the power in the years leading up to the Calamity. Iceheart is likely just one of those people who saw a meteor shower one day and started having Echo visions like so many others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sholah

Iceheart is likely just one of those people who saw a meteor shower one day and started having Echo visions like so many others.

---

Exactly. It has been heavily implied that Hydaelyn is "dead". Or, at the very least, she has gone silent and no longer speaks to her "children". The meteor shower may have been a "birth" event of sorts, with Hydaelyn seeding the land with as many possible Echo-users as possible.

Over time, some have gone astray. Others have died. And today, only two are officially known to remain.

Three, if we count Iceheart as well.


P/S: For some reason, I'm suddenly reminded of salmon. The fries that became the users of the Echo fought the circumstances of their time, seeking eventually to return "home". And now, only the two strongest remain. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Exactly. It has been heavily implied that Hydaelyn is "dead". Or, at the very least, she has gone silent and no longer speaks to her "children". The meteor shower may have been a "birth" event of sorts, with Hydaelyn seeding the land with as many possible Echo-users as possible.

Over time, some have gone astray. Others have died. And today, only two are officially known to remain.

Three, if we count Iceheart as well.


P/S: For some reason, I'm suddenly reminded of salmon. The fries that became the users of the Echo fought the circumstances of their time, seeking eventually to return "home". And now, only the two strongest remain. :p

---

True, but Hydaelyn has only gone silent very recently. Iceheart most likely had the Echo long before the battle with Ultima. There are also officially at least a few more Echo users. Early on when we have the vision of the mothercrystal, there are other adventurers there too.

Also, I just remembered. Louisoix saved a lot of people that were at Carteneau. We know at least one Echo-user (Derplander) was saved, so it's possible many others were too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sholah

It hasn't been confirmed that any members of the Scions have the Echo, but it's very likely. The Echo isn't as rare an ability as ARR implies. The Path of the Twelve was formed because there were suddenly so many people coming into the power in the years leading up to the Calamity. Iceheart is likely just one of those people who saw a meteor shower one day and started having Echo visions like so many others.

---

Actually, it's the opposite, at fan fest Ferne confirmmed that the other scions do not have the echo, they have other useful skills. I can't recall if it was the stream only lore chat or the lore cast from gamer escape.

I thought that everyone in the Scions that wasn't a Circle of Knowing member had the Echo (other than tataru). This is what distinguishes them from the Crystal Braves, because the crystal braves are neither.

I'll admit I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I'll double check the lore streams. It wasn't the GE one, that's been transcribed and I checked it.

Found it. At 10 minutes into the premium stream lore special guest segment, Ferne is asked

Do Scions such as Yda have the echo?

No, they do not. I would elaborate if I was allowed to, but he said not to elaborate. Most of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn do have the echo, but the Archons/Sharlayons don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grayve

Most of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn do have the echo.

---

Wait, what? That seems to contradict what you wrote earlier:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grayve

Ferne confirmmed that the other scions do not have the echo, they have other useful skills.

---

What were his exact words? Are the Scions, excluding the Archons, all Echo-users, or not?

And by Scions, I'm referring to members like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet the Cultured.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Wait, what? That seems to contradict what you wrote earlier:



What were his exact words? Are the Scions, excluding the Archons, all Echo-users, or not?

And by Scions, I'm referring to members like Hoary Boulder and Coultenet the Cultured.

---

Yes, sorry, i wasn't recalling the specifics right, and lumped the Scions and the Archons together. I'll get an exact quote

Q Do Scions such as Yda have the echo?


A No, they do not. I would elaborate if I was allowed to, but he said not to elaborate.

then the question was repeated, to confirm that they didn't have it, and he added this:

But the thing is, They are in the scions, because you know mostly, you have the scions of the seventh dawn, and... most of them have the echo right? and uh, why don't these guys? well, because they have other uses, yeah, right, they have all this knowledge about whats going on, um, being from the circle of knowing, and coming from sharlyan, you know, having all that knowledge there, um they were basically given, okay, you don't have the echo but you can come in because, you know, you're going to help out our group

Hmm... it seems that Fern spoke off-the-cuff, so I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I'll take him at his word. So, there are other Echo-users in the Scions besides Minfilia and the main character.

I know for sure that, before the massacre at the Waking Sands, there were at least three Scions who were former Pathwalkers. One of them, a miqo'te mage, was particularly frustrated that none of the other Scions remembered who they were. It's frustrating for her because she and her two companions were among the most senior of the Pathwalkers.

But that trio of Pathwalkers were killed when Livia raided the Waking Sands.

Since then, I haven't come across other Scions who appear to possess the Echo. Hoary Boulder and Coultenet are the only two regular Scions you see at the Rising Stones, and they don't appear to be Echo-users. Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

So, who are the "most of them" who have the Echo? Hmmm.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Hmm... it seems that Fern spoke off-the-cuff, so I'm not sure how reliable the information is, but I'll take him at his word. So, there are other Echo-users in the Scions besides Minfilia and the main character.

I know for sure that, before the massacre at the Waking Sands, there were at least three Scions who were former Pathwalkers. One of them, a miqo'te mage, was particularly frustrated that none of the other Scions remembered who they were. It's frustrating for her because she and her two companions were among the most senior of the Pathwalkers.

But that trio of Pathwalkers were killed when Livia raided the Waking Sands.

Since then, I haven't come across other Scions who appear to possess the Echo. Hoary Boulder and Coultenet are the only two regular Scions you see at the Rising Stones, and they don't appear to be Echo-users. Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

So, who are the "most of them" who have the Echo? Hmmm.....

---

What about Hoary Boulder and Coltenet doesn't strike you as echo users? Basically anyone could get the echo - their outward appearance doesn't matter. The Scions of the Seventh Dawn was made up of The Path of the Twelve (Echo-users, Minfilia's 1.0 organisation) and The Circle of Knowing (The Archons, Louisoix's Organisation). In 2.3, Alphinaud added a third group - The Crystal Braves, a grand-company type thing without borders and allegience. I'm not sure if it's supposed to serve as a "military" arm of the Scions or not ... but be that as it may, Coltenet and Hoary Boulder joined the Scions before it was formed ... and since they're not Sharlayan, it seems obvious to me that they have the Echo.

Of course, Tataru throws this into a little disarray. She clearly does not have the Echo (she couldn't see Elidibus back in 2.1). I think she's just a normal person ... but other than her, I think everyone else in the Scions falls into one of these 2/3 groups - depending upon if the Crystal Braves are actually a part of the Scions or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clawtooth

What about Hoary Boulder and Coltenet doesn't strike you as echo users?

---

Point taken. I feel the way I do because of the way the nature of the Echo has been completely re-written in ARR. The Echo used to be more mystical and spiritual in the original version of the game, and the Path of the Twelve often reminded me of real-world Freemasonry, a secret society with semi-religious influences.

But in ARR, the Echo has become a more overt kind of power. It's no longer something innate, but is rather more an explicit manifestation of Hydaelyn's blessing. To possess the Echo is to be specially marked by Hydaelyn for greater things, and it's the chief reason that you, the main character, is so exceptionally powerful.

Of course, it could also be rationalised that you just happen to be an especially adept user of the Echo. But, as of now, no reason has been given as to why you're so special.

So, I've come to believe that simply being blessed with the Echo itself makes you especially strong, a mechanic that shows up during Trials. And yet, none of the present-day Scions outside of the Archons are particularly noteworthy.

Yes, it's true that the Echo manifests itself in different ways in each individual. That was made very clear even during 1.0. But then again, ver1.0 also made it very clear that all the Echo-users in the Path were pursuing personal pilgrimages of one form or another. That distinction is no longer as clear in ARR, especially after the massacre in Waking Sands and the addition of the Crystal Braves, whom I do consider to be the military arm of the Scions, a development that my character, Lyland, is not completely comfortable with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Some Scions are still based in the Waking Sands, but they don't strike me as Echo-users either.

---

I'm pretty sure at least one of the scions that are still at the Waking Sands has the Echo. The half-Ala Mhigan mentiones that he was sent there, after telling someone about a strange dream he had, early in the story.

Most of the people that died in the Waking Sands in 2.0 had the Echo - if you talked to the NPCs between quests, they would mention things like "dreams" and "visions" etc. They also implied that their Echo was not as strong as the Player Characters. I would assume Hoary and Coltenet, as well as the remaining members still at the Waking Sands (excluding the female Roegadyn who is there to avenge her sister) have the Echo to some degree.

one of the things we have to remember too back from 1.0 is that its not just about having the Echo but also where the Echo in you focuses on. Not everyone has the same level of skill in the Echo. we as the Warrior seem to be the Exception with memory soul link and universal translator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctaruRavenbe

one of the things we have to remember too back from 1.0 is that its not just about having the Echo but also where the Echo in you focuses on. Not everyone has the same level of skill in the Echo. we as the Warrior seem to be the Exception with memory soul link and universal translator.

---

Elidibus also confirms it, when saying that due to the actions of Lahabrea, they were able to find an Echo user with such potential.

Hey, new to the lore thread so I may have missed some things but didn't Tataru say in 2.3? that many adventurers applied to join the Scions after hearing about your characters feats in saving Eorzea from the Garleans so they were having money problems. I doubt that all that joined (including Hoary Boulder and Coltenet) posses the Echo. The Scions were initially formed by The Path of the Twelve and The Circle of Knowing however the organisation has vastly changed from the beginning (they are no longer a secret organization and they lost many of their members) so I don't believe that it is far fetched that they would recruit strong allies even if they were not blessed with Echo or are from the Circle of Knowing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyle2006

...the organisation has vastly changed from the beginning (they are no longer a secret organization and they lost many of their members) so I don't believe that it is far fetched that they would recruit strong allies even if they were not blessed with Echo or are from the Circle of Knowing.

---

I agree. I don't think there are actually that many Echo-users left in the new Scions, especially after the massacre at Waking Sands. The impression I have is that the vast majority of the organisation is now made up of ordinary adventurers.