Soo... Sneak Attack(?)

Does anyone know how the skill will work in this game? If it's a frontal... then cleaves will be deadly yes? I guess that cuts it out of ninja rotation for actual content? :confused:

Edit: Nvm! A friend just pointed out hide! Forget ittttt >< useless thread! sorry! >.<!!

If a dev can delete or close this, that'd be great. Once again I apologize. :(

Perfect dodge just before using it.

Forgot to add, people will probably use Trick Attack anyway, that extra 10% damage taken from all party members easily outdoes the extra 100 potency you would get from sneak attack,

Sneak Attack and Trick Attack are moves that can only be used under the effect of Hide (which can't be activated in combat) or Suiton (Ninjutsu).
For smaller scale content like 4 man dungeons or solo play, Sneak Attack will be the skill of choice, for raids, Trick Attack will be, because;
1. It's infinitely safer to do
2. the 10% damage increase for 10 seconds is awesome.

Know when the boss uses a big frontal AoE and run in after and use sneak attack with perfect dodge activated, but depending on CD and TP cost as well as Trick Attack, Sneak attack might only be useable when doing solo content

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Originally Posted by Ghasto

Sneak Attack and Trick Attack are moves that can only be used under the effect of Hide (which can't be activated in combat) or Suiton (Ninjutsu).
For smaller scale content like 4 man dungeons or solo play, Sneak Attack will be the skill of choice, for raids, Trick Attack will be, because;
1. It's infinitely safer to do
2. the 10% damage increase for 10 seconds is awesome.

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Yeah, a friend pointed that out. ^^ sorry!

I did think it was amusing that they switched Sneak Attack up from its XI counterpart. In XI, Sneak attack was performed from the back of the mob, and trick attack from behind another player (any enmity generated from Trick Attack, was placed on the person between you and the monster).

It did confuse me at first when I read that Sneak Attack would be used from the front, until I saw that it required the use of Hide.

Hide cannot be executed in combat.
So you wouldn't want to put Sneak Attack into a normal combat rotation anyway since it receives a major boost from Hide.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

I did think it was amusing that they switched Sneak Attack up from its XI counterpart. In XI, Sneak attack was performed from the back of the mob, and trick attack from behind another player behind the mob (any enmity generated from Trick Attack, was placed on the person between you and the monster).

It did confuse me at first when I read that Sneak Attack would be used from the front, until I saw that it required the use of Hide.

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Yeah, that's exactly what happened to me. xD

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Originally Posted by Sagittarian

Hide cannot be executed in combat.
So you wouldn't want to put Sneak Attack into a normal combat rotation anyway since it receives a major boost from Hide.

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Suiton gives you hide in combat.
Rogues can't stealth in combat, ninjas can :D

inb4 bosses are immune to Hide.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Suiton gives you hide in combat.
Rogues can't stealth in combat, ninjas can :D

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The more you know. :o! (I'm just learning all the skills they will get so I'm sorta derp-mode atm.)

Thanks for all the info everyone. ;-;

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Originally Posted by Lillia

The more you know. :o! (I'm just learning all the skills they will get so I'm sorta derp-mode atm.)

Thanks for all the info everyone. ;-;

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You know just SLIGHTLY less than we do, since all most people have to go on are vague demo videos and the ability list in the patch notes until tonight/tomorrow

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Suiton gives you hide in combat.
Rogues can't stealth in combat, ninjas can :D

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Suiton:
Delivers water damage with a potency of 180.
Additional Effect: Grants the caster Suiton Duration: 10s

I wondered about that effect in the patch notes. Is it more obvious in Japanese?

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Originally Posted by Sagittarian

Suiton:
Delivers water damage with a potency of 180.
Additional Effect: Grants the caster Suiton Duration: 10s

I wondered about that effect in the patch notes. Is it more obvious in Japanese?

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"Suiton" just means "Water Element", but conjecture based on videos and such has indicated that it grants something akin to hide in combat. Which makes sense, otherwise Trick Attack and Sneak Attack would be completely useless in raids (since they're very likely able to see through hide and no DPS in their right mind would try to open a fight that way), and the "wind-up" required to pull it off is long enough to justify being able to use it.

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Originally Posted by Sagittarian

Hide cannot be executed in combat.
So you wouldn't want to put Sneak Attack into a normal combat rotation anyway since it receives a major boost from Hide.

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Maybe hide will get a trait to allow combat use, but i wouldn't know

im looking forward to play rogue/nin in Carteneau PVP ;)

I am kind of wondering if Trick Attack will stack with Storm's Eye. If so it might create some balancing issues.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

I am kind of wondering if Trick Attack will stack with Storm's Eye. If so it might create some balancing issues.

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Trick Attack does, and it's justified because it apparently has a long cooldown. Storm's Eye doesn't stack with Dancing Edge, though

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Trick Attack does, and it's justified because it apparently has a long cooldown. Storm's Eye doesn't stack with Dancing Edge, though

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Ah yea it was Dancing Edge I was thinking of. A constant 20% buff to your raid's PLD+WAR+NIN might be a bit to much (assuming you have all 3)

From the sounds of it, TA seems almost strictly superior to SA, i wonder if you'd even consider it for solo play. Maybe if you can one shot with it or the mob's going to die in less than 10 secs.

I think people are missing one big thing with Trick Attack. 10% damage increase for 10 seconds... can someone say LIMIT BREAK?

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

From the sounds of it, TA seems almost strictly superior to SA, i wonder if you'd even consider it for solo play. Maybe if you can one shot with it or the mob's going to die in less than 10 secs.

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I really REALLY wouldnt be suprised if sneak attack gained a passive later on that transfers enmity or has some extra effect since it requires you being in cleave range of bosses and no DPS in their right mind is going to willingly stand infront of the boss without some benefit being had.

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

I think people are missing one big thing with Trick Attack. 10% damage increase for 10 seconds... can someone say LIMIT BREAK?

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You know I was going to say something... but when it comes down to it... we'll only ever be using Trick Attack in A) Coil, B) Primals, and C) Once or Twice per Boss fight in dungeons.

That being said... Most valuable party skill in the game outside of tanking and healing much?

Yeah I thought so.

Sneak Attack is more that skill that you use to open and drop a target to 50% before it's had a chance to do anything. It will be OP as shit for solo play... but then again, who cares about that? lol.

I expect bosses to resist the additional effect of TA... wouldn't be the first time one of the more useful skills results to be useless in boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

You know I was going to say something... but when it comes down to it... we'll only ever be using Trick Attack in A) Coil, B) Primals, and C) Once or Twice per Boss fight in dungeons.

That being said... Most valuable party skill in the game outside of tanking and healing much?

Yeah I thought so.

Sneak Attack is more that skill that you use to open and drop a target to 50% before it's had a chance to do anything. It will be OP as shit for solo play... but then again, who cares about that? lol.

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And LB is not affected by damage modifiers afaik, just weapon item levels.

I'm thinking that other than Pugilist, NIN will draw from Archer. So the way I see it being used is, Quelling strikes > Hawk's eye > Hide > Sneak attack.

Since you're going to be opening with this hard hitting attack before the tank has much enmity quelling strikes will be good, hawk's eye will increase DEX 15% making it hit harder and since its a frontal attack the 100% accuracy will be helpful too so you don't have to gear for frontal accuracy for just 1 attack or risk it missing.

It was already announced that ninja draws from PUG and LNC. They have no enmity reducing qualities, just like monk...

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Originally Posted by Houston009

It was already announced that ninja draws from PUG and LNC. They have no enmity reducing qualities, just like monk...

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Really? Where was this said? I only saw that it will require PUG 15 to unlock.

Can't remember where it was mentioned, but yeah they get access to Blood for Blood and Invigorate (two necessary skills for melee DPS).

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Can't remember where it was mentioned, but yeah they get access to Blood for Blood and Invigorate (two necessary skills for melee DPS).

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It just seems silly to make it DEX based and then not make it draw from the only other DEX based class in the game, especially when it's a stealth class and archer has stealth moves like quelling strikes. Blood for blood can be made up for by hawk's eye and raging strikes, and as for invigorate, having a melee class that doesn't have it might make BRD's paeon actually have a use in the game.

In general Trick attack will be used for groups (due to easier positioning and most dangers being frontal).

Sneak Attack will be more for initial pull or solo as it requires you to be hidden which cannot be done mid battle.

There is a lot of potential for this job set if the game forms to a more flexible system. At this time it is more of a fun to have.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Suiton gives you hide in combat.
Rogues can't stealth in combat, ninjas can :D

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Where is the link where it specifies this skill does this?

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppn5aGLfxSk

They use suiton, and it is just a water attack.