To begin with, yes I know a question on this was just answered at Fanfest that "Amdapor and Nym teamed up against proto-Belah'dians". However, take this together with the following text from Gerolt during the Omnilex quest:
If Amdapor and Nym are supposedly allied based on the Fanfest answer, why are they seemingly pitted against each other in this in-game text account? Did they fall through after taking care of the proto-Belah'dians by arguing whether SCH or WHM is the better healer? Or the other way around, and they were at odds before having to team up once proto-Belah'dia arose as a threat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerolt
Or... is there simply crossed streams that blew up the consistency in the lore? >.>
It has always bothered me that it's assumed Nym and Amdapor teamed up. From what I can tell, this was only ever inferred from the War of the Magi also being billed as a "white vs black" magic type thing, and players therefore saying "since WHM and SCH are both healer classes, obviously they must both be on the side of light vs some unknown people on the dark side". I've yet to see any primary source confirm this aside from the Fanfest Q&A.
So... what's going on here? We have two seemingly conflicting sources on the War, both of which could be considered canon (in-game and from Ferne's mouth). Anybody know of other in-game text that could reconcile this? Do we need to invoke the voidsent summoning ritual?
War of the Magi - Who's side are you on anyway??
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10-23-2014, 12:31 AMMyrandaWar of the Magi - Who's side are you on anyway??
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10-23-2014, 12:38 AMlololink
As far as I remember, black mages of Amdapor summoned Diabolos and the white mages of Amdapor, seeing that disaster, put the voidsent to sleep and since the city was in ruin they might have allied with the scholars of Nym to defeat the black mages that they thought to have come too far. Maybe the MNK quest giver have some info on this, I never heard of the alliance between the white mages and the scholars before too...
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10-23-2014, 01:08 AMBaithin
My guess is that it was a temporary alliance, or one that arose either late in the war or early on in the war.
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10-23-2014, 01:14 AMMyrandaCan't believe I forgot about Erik. I double checked on him and he deals much more with the Autumn War rather than the Magi, nothing to add here. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
As for Diabolos, I wasn't aware we had any evidence whatsoever yet of who exactly summoned him or why. Didn't Ferne at Fanfest basically infer that more Diabolos story might be coming in a future dungeon for that ("pay close attention to his cutscene")? -
10-23-2014, 01:20 AMAlenore
The S rank monster (Mahisha) was summoned during the war of the magi, to conquer Nym. The Black magic users having already summoned Diabolos, it wouldn't be surprising if they tried the same strategy on Nym (apparently without much more success).
I'd assume the (apparently temporary) alliance happened at that moment, to shut down those big bad black mages. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thinking. -
10-23-2014, 08:08 PMCorvinoobus
To clarify Fern's statements: War is messy, and longer wars are even messier. The War of the Magi was one of the longest and messiest wars in recorded history. Alliances can be fleeting things in such an environment...and I'll leave it at that for now.
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10-23-2014, 08:32 PMDoctaruRavenbe
but war never changes right?
(I had to say it >.<) -
10-23-2014, 10:55 PMMyrandaIs that... is that a "please look forward to it"??? It sure makes it sound like there's more to be revealed but can't say because future quests :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Corvinoobus
Thanks for dropping in with such a morsel--myseterious though it be--for us to nosh on, o preeminent preternatural pudding! -
10-23-2014, 11:41 PMAnonymooseThat's a Please Look Forward To It™ if I've ever seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myranda
Have you noticed that we've had to set aside every question pertaining to the War of the Magi, so far? Whatever's going on back there, the Lore department has a story they're stoked to tell us in a specific way at a specific time. I'm excited for it for a slightly different reason.
All current custom on the conflict comes specifically from the same era as a certain savage sorceress and her staff of Sta~rdust...
♪~Ohohoho -
10-24-2014, 02:02 AMAlberelIf I recall Diabolos doesn't die when we defeat him... he just teleports away again. We essentially set him free by breaking the seals on his prison. I would imagine he'll return in a future quest or dungeon relating to Amdapor or the War of the Magi as it seems he played a crucial part in its conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myranda
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10-24-2014, 02:33 AMlololinkWell, he is a voidsent and we don't know much about these creatures and their power, especially the stronger ones, maybe they go back to the void when they are defeated or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
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10-24-2014, 02:53 AMAlberelIf I recall we were given some information on this somewhere in game. Voidsent are formed of a different aether to things naturally residing in Hydaelyn so when they die in our world their aether is outright destroyed as it has nowhere to return to. You can see this when you kill bosses such as Anantaboga in Amdapor Keep; he explodes into a black aether that entirely dissipates on death. Diabolos, on the other hand, turns into a swarm of bats and flies off again. His defeat behaves nothing like a typical voidsent death so I think it's safe to assume he's not dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
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10-24-2014, 08:02 AMKaiser-Ace
I was thinking it was Sil'dih that was the third side of the War of the Magi. I remember hearing alot of black mage refrences in regaurds to Sil'dih, and Sil'dih was of the same period as Amdapoor and Nym as well. The three basically form the pre-cursers to the modern city staes of Limsa Lominsa (Nym's Desendents), Gridania (Amdapoor's Decendents) and Ul'dah (Which is a closer desendent to Sil'dih than the other two are to theirs as Ul'dah and Sil'dih co-existed for a while). Since the Sil'dihns were known for Black Magic, Amdapoor was Known for White Magic, and Nym was where Scholars origenated, I'd assume that they were the three sides. The Beladeans seem to be either much older or much younger than the other three. It also fits with how the 6th Umbal Era Started since the three basically wiped themselves out.
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10-24-2014, 08:09 AMAnonymooseThis is where Sil'dih gets a little confusing. Ul'dah and Sil'dih were sister cities that rose from the split of Belah'dia - but all three of those cities were Sixth Astral Era civilizations. None of them existed in the time of Amdapor and Nym. We did recently learn, though, that the roots of the dark arts in Ul'dah, Sil'dih, and Belah'dia may have come from survivors of the fall of this third "black mage" city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace
Actually, you bring up an interesting point that I've never used in this context, but I've used it in others so let's bring it over. Ready for some darksteelfoil hat fringe stuff? Here's an odd pattern: Each region has a current-day city with a god of a certain element and a fallen city with a god of that same element. (I tried to connect this to the primals, as well, but it fell apart with Titan being in Vylbrand and Garuda being in the Shroud). Still, the prayer stones of the Calamity line up, and so do the cities.
[WIND] La Noscea || Limsa Lominsa (Llymlaen) / Nym (Oschon)
[FIRE] Thanalan || Ul'dah / Nald'than / Original Qarn Civilization (Azeyma)
[LIGHTNING] Gyr Abania || Ala Mhigo (Rhalgr) / ??? (Byregot)
[EARTH] Shroud || Gridania (Nophica) / Amdapor (Althyk?)
[WATER] Dravania || Sharlayan (Thaliak) / ??? (Nymeia)
[ICE] Coerthas || Ishgard (Halone) / ??? (Menphina)
So, we've got the Dravanian, Gyr Abanian, Thanalanian, and Coerthan cities as suspects, though none are named.
There's a good case to be made for several of them. You've got the Qarn ruins that were there when the Belah'dians showed up... that's the right territory. You've got Gyr Abania, where Rhalgr, whose symbol is meteor, comes from. And even in Coerthas you've got the stones such as Gwyr-aen that still pulse with magick from an ancient society to a degree that the Lambs of Dalamud hung out there in 1.0.
I wonder if they've been so tight-lipped about the War of the Magi because we're going to get to see some of it. Probably nobody to get an Echo off of, but I hear that Diabolos is pretty talented at crafting life-like dreams of places he's been... -
10-24-2014, 10:59 AMSapphicHM versions of AK and WP maybe? can hope :) Especially WP!Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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10-24-2014, 03:57 PMMorningstar1337Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if she comes back and recognizes the player from them stopping her golem from rampaging around La Noscea like GodzillaQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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10-24-2014, 10:10 PMAlenoreBoth Shantotto and Shatotto are different people, apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
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10-25-2014, 05:40 AMMagis
If SE dared to write a XI character into canon, they could easily have said she did her cross-dimensional magic and rose a ruckus there.
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10-25-2014, 05:53 AMMorningstar1337And they did with Burgeoning Dread. But as for the Magi War they'd prolly need to put time travel shenanigans into the mix as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Magis
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10-26-2014, 12:03 PMKaiser-Ace
[QUOTE=Anonymoose;2525166]This is where Sil'dih gets a little confusing. Ul'dah and Sil'dih were sister cities that rose from the split of Belah'dia - but all three of those cities were Sixth Astral Era civilizations. None of them existed in the time of Amdapor and Nym. We did recently learn, though, that the roots of the dark arts in Ul'dah, Sil'dih, and Belah'dia may have come from survivors of the fall of this third "black mage" city.
First off, I feel honored to have my comment critiqed by the great Anonymoose. I'm a huge fan lol.
But I never realized that Sil'dih was a Sixth Astral Era city. I assumed it was as old as Amdapoor. So in that case it'd make Sil'dih closer in age to Gelmorah than Amdapoor and Nym wouldn't it. -
10-26-2014, 04:49 PMAnonymoosePerfect comparison. They both rose and fell during the age of the first big city-states of the Sixth Astral Era. You know those charts on Wikipedia that show you what members were in a band for what years? I had to make one of those for all the cities we know about, with big vertical bars for the Umbral Eras, because part of me kept trying to assume Gelmorra was Fifth Astral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace