As it this now. Whm are able to stack the heal over time from their medica 2 on the same target. what I mean is that they can both be applied at the same time. But why is every shielding ability from multiple scholar not in this case? Only the strongest shield at a certain moment is applied, removing the other one. I think it makes it increasingly difficult to have 2 sch. (From exp 2whm goes a lot smoother)
Why dont multiple sch shield stack?
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10-21-2014, 04:32 AMAquariusHakenWhy dont multiple sch shield stack?
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10-21-2014, 04:35 AMMoqi
2 adlo + 2 SS + stoneskin... who'll take ANY damage anymore. Imagine if they crit. It'd be way OP I think.
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10-21-2014, 04:45 AMRyfee
I personally hate 2-WHM combo (dat overheal)... but 2-SCH is also horrible. Shields don't stack--and I guess for good reason. Crit shields stacking sounds OP to me. I don't know if SE will change or implement a new system to shield-stacking, but so far nothing has been mentioned.
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10-21-2014, 05:45 AMLyrica_Ashtine
Same reason why stoneskins don't stack: Two White Mage stoneskins on a 10k HP warrior is 3600 points worth of damage. Two adloquiums on the same tank is good for ~2500 points worth of damage (up to 8000 with healing buffs up)
Having multiple HoT spells doesn't save you from getting killed instantly (Death sentence, Blighted Bouquette, Raven's beak etc.) but having two stoneskins or two galvanized (especially when it crits) allows you to go #yolo on too many things it would break mechanics. -
10-21-2014, 05:58 AMVelox
If SCH shields would stack, there would be 0 reason to ever bring a WHM to end-game content again (there's already little reason currently given that they made all content equally heal-able by both, but SCH adds more utility to the party makeup).
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10-21-2014, 09:46 AMThistledown
As people said, it would ruin the dynamics at play. It also lets one SCH to go full dps and rotate depending on the situation.
I also greatly dislike sharing the dice roll with anothet SCH. Mogtome is all mine mwahahah -
10-22-2014, 03:31 AMEraqus
shield stacking its impossible......
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10-22-2014, 03:46 AMSeraviEdalborezYes, having twice as many mini-Bene's and another of the better-DPS healer is so horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryfee
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10-22-2014, 05:21 AMInflorescence
Two Medica IIs and two Regens will still heal for 0 HP for the duration. The awesome thing about Galvanize is that it's never wasted.
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10-24-2014, 07:56 AMIceSpear
You say that, but even when I crit for 3000 the shield goes down extremely quick where as say mid battle if you have two regens on the tank it's gonna get him back to full health in 3 seconds on top of that if you divine seal it's even more likely that the tank won't need much healing. If it was two scholars the tank needs much more attention, because we don't have regen.
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10-24-2014, 08:04 AMZedd702Whispering Dawn from EOS = Regen...Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
TBQH two Adloquium's would be pretty OP and I like scholar, because it's a Hybrid of a few jobs. I can turn the switch on/off better than WHM when it comes to DPS, although WHM DPS is superior to Scholar in terms of burst output especially with CS at their disposal. But SCH is a great utility alternative to pure healer like WHM.
WHM IMO is more of a potent dependable healer (Translation: WHM heals are more powerful than scholar).
SCH has alot of utility to offer and I tend to play my scholar based on the premises of "damage prevention" vs "damage recovery" If I know an AOE is comin, Succor is already on my team before and after the AoE.
Two SCH are not horrible with healing a 8 man team as someone said earlier in this thread. I've did ST plenty of times with another scholar and did better than teams that had two WHM or one SCH and one WHM, though that could be fault of the healer. I personally prefer WHM/SCH combo because of the array of options at the healers disposals to keep the team alive, especially the way I play my SCH, that allows swift recovery from a Medica II on devastating AoE's etc... -
10-24-2014, 08:36 AMInflorescenceThis is mostly true in dungeons, and in fact I was just talking to my friend about how I basically DS->Regen, then just DPS for most dungeon pulls. But MP management is an enormous part of WHM gameplay, and Medica II is one of the most MP-intensive spells we have (beaten by Holy and Raise, I think), so we can't just keep it up 100%, like we do with Regen.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
In addition, DS takes two Regens to come off Cooldown. Also, if you have a WHM, try to see how long you can survive using just Regen, you seem to feel like it's a higher potency than it is. It's not really a healing spell so much as a comfort zone while we cast our real healing spells.
Regardless, Galvanize is still "reverse Regen," in that the damage negation still comes, it just comes before the hits instead of after. -
10-24-2014, 11:36 PMLyrica_AshtineRegen with full i110 with HA weapon ticks for 470-480 on average. Add in 40% of DS that's 650-670 on average every 3 seconds. Claiming two DS regens will heal a tank to full in 3 seconds is complete nonsense - Unless you are talking about a level 30 tank. In fact, a single fairy heal would easily outheal a single DS regen tick with one embrace - Which is also once every three seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
Assume you failed to read this post, I'll quote myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
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10-27-2014, 12:52 AMIceSpearYou fail to mention the cool down on Whispering Dawn, it's definitely not a WHM regen. Regen has more potency and no cool down time or cast time. It's easy to try to compare the two, but get your facts straight first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd702
We're not talking about static heals we're talking about healing over time you can't compare Eos' embace to a regen, because they're two totally different things. Also remember I said two not one regen. Eos doesn't automatically heal every 3 seconds like a regen would she'll only heal when HP is under a certain amount. This is also mid battle not at the start why would you keep on casting Stoneskin in mid battle when your healing would do be much more effective, saying that two Stoneskins won't stack is just a shit excuse coming out of your ass you use Stoneskin at the start, Scholars use Adloquium for shield as well as for the heal. We've already established that two Scholars are the worst type of combo, at lest with two White Mages the regens stack they have no trouble with having to coordinate better, because their mana doesn't get wasted as much as Scholars do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
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10-27-2014, 12:58 AMCynfaelEither way it doesn't matter because Eos gathers dust at end-game except possibly if you want to use her for a solo heal run. But yes, WD isn't comparable to Regen except that they're both HoTs.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
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10-27-2014, 01:14 AMShikiseki
I personally wouldn't mind a succor shield stack although that should not stack with Adlo, nor 2 Adlos.
Two Scholars basically need to think bit otherwise as they usually would and needs a lot more coordination than two WHM.
Altering Sacred soils + Eos/Selene combo give some nice results. You can also coordinate who'll focus on tanks and the other focuses more on the raid.
It's bit sad though that many of the fairy skills don't stack. -
10-27-2014, 02:06 AMCynfael
Two strange, uncoordinated SCHs healing together can be sloppy when it comes to AoE heals, but who really cares? Two SCHs can slop all they want and not run out of MP unless they're extraordinarily bad or needing to spam rezzes. It's not as elegant a solution as a single Medica II cast to heal the entire party between unavoidable AoEs, but it will work.
Two SCHs also means two fairies, so despite double Succor being somewhat wasteful, it's not as bad as it sounds. The SCHs just have to either be quick enough to force Embraces where needed the most during major AoEs or at least stop spamming Embrace on the tank so that the fairies can independently heal up the DPS who took the biggest hits. Ideally you have Succor up nearly 100% of the time to help mitigate the impending AoE, anyway, so it's never as bad as it might sound. If the SCHs actually know each other and are coordinated, the potential for damage control is very high. -
10-27-2014, 04:21 AMLyrica_AshtineFine, I'll turn on the helpdesk mentality and assume your brain is in a glass jar on top of your desk.Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
For starters: This is mainly about endgame content. The more casual content (Crystal-/syrcus tower, dungeons etc.) aren't even worth mentioning or elaborating.
You mentioned two regens? I gave you numbers for one regen. One regen heals for 470-480 on average, 650-670 with Divine Seal. Which means that TWO regens will heal for 940-960 on average and 1300-1340 hp every three seconds. Still with me? Excellent. A scholar worth their salt has full control over their fairy and uses embrace manually. Scholars letting the fairy sit on /sic - or even worse: /obey and not do anything with it - might as well play White Mage instead of Scholar. Just like how Regen overheals every 3 seconds because the target's HP is full, so can a fairy overheal every 3 seconds with Embrace. But if you don't feel like having the fairy pre-cast it's embraces, your decision I guess.
Stoneskinning mid-battle has it's uses to prepare the tank (or anyone else for that matter) for big hits. Just like how a scholar worth their salt casts adloquium on the tank before the big hit comes in.
Just like how two scholars are a terrible combination, the same applies for two white mages. I'll give you some homework here and figure it out yourself why two white mages is a sub-optimal combination - just like how two scholars are sub-optimal. I'll give you a hint: Two white mages combo has a far worse MP efficiency than two scholars. But do make sense, rather than something that is "according to you". -
10-27-2014, 11:31 AMCynfaelThis is a good point. Two WHMs together are usually pumping out ridiculous overheal, and their DPS is not nearly as sustainable as that of the SCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
Given the choice, I'd pretty much always take 1 SCH + 1 WHM for end-game content where 2 healers are desired.
For casual content, as I said before, it doesn't matter at all. Slop shields all over the place or blow your party up with HoT spam, because it makes no difference when the challenge level is low and the players are extremely overgeared. Two of the same healer isn't unworkable in most situations, just not optimal. -
10-28-2014, 12:35 AMZedd702Before you come at me like. You either need to read, re-read or re-re-read your own post. You stated "Scholars (the correct term you used was "we") don't have regen." My facts are straight, you should practice what you preach, because as I stated before: EOS Whispering Dawn = Regen...Quote:
Originally Posted by IceSpear
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10-28-2014, 02:36 AMAlkimiIf by utility you mean the SCH spends 90% of the time in cleric stance while the WHM and Selene do all the healing then yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velox
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10-28-2014, 02:38 AMZedd702I think you meant EOS. And lets be real WHM's are just as big if not bigger culprits to do just this, but sad part is that most WHM don't realize how to use CS effectively and neglect toggling it on/off in certain situations...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkimi
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10-28-2014, 06:55 AMCynfaelNo, he probably meant Selene. Almost no one bothers with Eos unless partied with another SCH already using Selene or when doing low-level content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd702
As for utility, SCHs can heal effectively while maintaining at least some simultaneous DPS; pretty much full-time DPS if minimal healing is required in the first place. WHMs are better suited to patching up the party's boo-boos while the SCH can easily babysit a tank as they DPS. I just consider it playing to the classes' strengths. -
10-28-2014, 08:04 AMZedd702Ah I see... I play my sch differently than that. Selene I use when I need her silence, IE Coil 1 T4... other than that I prefer EOS to buff heals etc, especially on Boss fights where I may get hindered to cast my own heals...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynfael
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10-28-2014, 08:16 AMCynfaelI was very much anti-Selene at first simply because her buffs aren't that impactful on lower-tier content or dungeons, but the sad truth is that Eos, as fun as she is to use, is redundant for the majority of end-game unless you're solo healing and want Whispering Dawn in your pocket just in case your party is derp-prone when it comes to AoEs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedd702
I think my personal epiphany regarding Selene vs. Eos came one day when I was doing T6 or T7 with Eos out and realized that all of Eos' glitter spam wasn't actually doing anything for anyone. The WHM had AoE heals more than covered; the extra mdef buff wasn't very noticeable; the healing buff was nice, but really just creating more overhealing since we were healing fine to begin with. That's when I packed up Eos and learned to micromanage Selene since even 2-3% more raid damage was preferable in comparison. Not to mention I also play BLM and find Fey Glow to be very noticeable for that particular DPS. -
10-28-2014, 10:15 AMNicoboSimply, Pro and SS don't stack, it is system design consistency regardless op or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquariusHaken
IMO they will just nerf it in advance if it could be stack. ^^; -
10-28-2014, 10:19 AMTraumatic
Selene is the way to go if you aren't a scroob sch and micro manage your pet...if you don't micro manage then reroll ninja in a few hours pls. I usually only bring EoS out when solo healing Ramuh EM or for T9 Megaflare... Then its back in the bag for EoS... Selene is just so dirty when you manage her fey glow and fey light manually and the extra SS buff she casts on her own (that most people don't know about).
Also just STAHP with the WHM vs SCH e-peen measuring. As you can see in my avatar I am a lalafell with a moustache...I win.
<3 Traumatic Trauma Ultros -
10-29-2014, 12:25 AMZedd702I wouldn't go as far as saying Scrubbish. I prefer EOS at times, especially when on 24 man raids where I may have to pick up the slack with healing or if I am frozen by scyalla where I can hit WD, before hand. EOS has her uses, but for the most part, I agree with most of your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Traumatic
PS: I think SE needs to implement an emote called "Punt" exclusively to other races except lalafewtballz :3 -
10-30-2014, 03:08 AMAldoVonAlexandros
yeah, we already complained about this a long time ago