WHM Regen

Hey!

Just to help WHM and tanks out, Im encountering this more and more as time goes by so just want to throw it out there due to many new WHM's not realising it.

Regen is not something you put on the tank every time it runs out. It will generate hate as we all know, but, if you are wondering why the mobs run to you when the tank pulls the next pack, it will be because you are putting a Regen on them towards the end of a fight or before the next pull. Yes, tanks can and do remove it, its no big deal, but if a tank is not checking if its up (maybe grabbing mobs from a dps pulling the next pack or any other reason) WHM cops it, the pull is messy, easy to clean up yes but unnecessary.

It just comes down to healing by demand not healing by rotation or automation, if the Regen runs out and there is just a little bit of hp left on mob/s just Cure. Regen is just meant to assist while you heal other party members.

Tip: Shroud of Saints is a great mana regen tool! Have fun!

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Originally Posted by SamAkemi

It [Regen] will generate hate as we all know, but, if you are wondering why the mobs run to you when the tank pulls the next pack, it will be because you are putting a Regen on them towards the end of a fight or before the next pull.

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That's true.
Some healers put medica2 before pull, same problem.

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Originally Posted by SamAkemi

Regen is just meant to assist while you heal other party members.

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That's not true.

You should pretty much always have regen up on tank for raids (Coil), dungeon bosses, trials and even on dungeons after tank does big pulls AND has aggro on all mobs, regardless of whether you are healing other party members or not.
Regen on DPS is usually better than casting Cure. No cast time and more HP restored for pretty much the same amount of MP.

Even though I just started recently healing at 50, divine seal regen on dps seems to be more then enough most of the time unless they derped to hard or are ignoring the dodging in the fight.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

Regen on DPS is usually better than casting Cure. No cast time and more HP restored for pretty much the same amount of MP.

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This. Regen is such a vital part of the WHM healing kit, and it seems that not many out there understand how to use it. If a dps takes damage (usually non raid wide damage), put a regen on them. For raid wide damage, that's what the medica spells are there for. Dungeon running, after tank pulls hit divine seal and regen on them, cleric stance and cast a few lots of holy.

I see Regen as SCH's Lily: Something that should always be on a tank/hurt DPS during a fight to help you pump out DPS and something never to be used during a pull (especially sac pulls!). I main SCH so when I swapped over to play WHM for the first time in months my tank almost died when I was DPSing. Best way to remember about the existance of Regen haha. Divine Seal+Regen=Rouse+Lily's Embrace. Supplemental healing over time to help manage your MP and/or keep the tank alive while you DPS.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

Regen on DPS is usually better than casting Cure. No cast time and more HP restored for pretty much the same amount of MP.

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This is a really good tip - I actually didn't know this, sadly. I've been tossing Cure onto everyone or using Medica.

I personally try to heal through damage instead of chucking Regen on my tank, because for some reason it just pisses people off (though if it's just too much to heal through I throw it on). I've been asked what Regen does and why I'm using it quite a few times... mostly by undergeared tanks.

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Regen is just meant to assist while you heal other party members.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

That's not true.

You should pretty much always have regen up on tank for raids (Coil), dungeon bosses, trials and even on dungeons after tank does big pulls AND has aggro on all mobs, regardless of whether you are healing other party members or not.
Regen on DPS is usually better than casting Cure. No cast time and more HP restored for pretty much the same amount of MP.

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It IS true if you read that statement again on its own now in general Aero as you have now framed it relating to raid, because now the statement is isolated, it can apply to any party/raid member, which by the way is one of our raid funnies, we call our melee Regen Masters because the poor guys are always dodging aoe and we keep hots on them especially. If I was referring to healers in raids, I would have mentioned exactly what you have said. So thats a known, or at least should be by attentive healers. But that is not what I was referring to. I specifically targeted new healers because they havent raided and need to learn that in light party, you shouldn't apply Regen at the end of a fight or before the next pull so that the tank doesn't have to keep removing it in order to protect the healer AND the group. I also made no reference to big pulls or when IN the fight with aggro on all mobs, or raids, because yes, the tank absolutely should have hots on them then. No, I was specific about the end of the fight, and before the next pull, new healers - Regen. Dont do it.

In raids, it is as you say, most definitely and even more so. Its important to keep statements within the context of the original post but you made some awesome points for raids, points that I also operate by. As this post was simply to help new healers, thankyou for enlightening them further. I just hope that my original point of when NOT to Regen the tank stands out and sticks in the mind of those healing babes XD

Any healer that is not putting hots on key targets in raids, even themselves, needs to talk to other healers about things like that.

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This is a really good tip - I actually didn't know this, sadly. I've been tossing Cure onto everyone or using Medica.

I personally try to heal through damage instead of chucking Regen on my tank, because for some reason it just pisses people off (though if it's just too much to heal through I throw it on). I've been asked what Regen does and why I'm using it quite a few times... mostly by undergeared tanks.

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Its ok Fox, we all learn this stuff at some point in time, good on you for reading the forums and the post just because you are a WHM and interested enough to learn. And change. /Salute.

As I have been healing for 10 years in mmo's (9 yrs in World of Warcraft and almost a year here), I have to say that those tanks (especially undergeared) actually need it more so and perhaps you might suggest politely that they look into mitigation and avoidance (parry and block) vs hp stacking (because healers and tanks work together in endgame). As I have also main tanked a couple of years in SWTOR and am now tanking here in a second static raid team as well as healing in the first static team, just the fact that they are asking you what it is, when they can just hover a mouse over it and find out worries me - because I wonder how much attention is being paid to stats, attribute points, or the buff food they might be using as well as mitigation cd's and pinnacle impact points in boss fights.

Just 3 days ago, I tanked Ifrit Extreme on my pally, with a warrior that did not have provoke (once again, this worries me). Needless to say, we abandoned - hes lvl 50 and God only knows how he got to Ifrit EX without Provoke - and why didnt anyone say anything to him? So dont be put off using Regen XD, as i now main heal on scholar, I get pissed off if the WHM is not applying it, and so do our tanks! Its the right thing, keep it up, just dont apply before a pull XD

As a non-healer party member, I don't care what the healer does, or heals casts, as long as everyone is alive and healer still has some MP at the end of the fight.


As a WHM party member, if you are a non-tank and you take incidental damage that will not be continuous (except a DoT, I mean you are not continuously getting beat on by something) then you will get a regen. Especially if I know no big aoe is incoming. I won't regen, or heal, the tank until I see the first Flash or Overpower. Sometimes I will throw up Stoneskin on the tank, and don't notice him pulling at the same time. Or there is a little left over regen from previous fight. And I get agro. Especially on mobs that do no aoe, I will run up to the tank and stand there until I am no longer getting beat on. That way the tank doesn't have to give chase. If they about to pull for example one of those frogs in the first room of AV, that have a tongue pull mechanic, I put on Stoneskin or if on SCH some sort of Adloq. That prevents the tongue pull, which can prevent a lot of extra angry mobs incoming.

As tank party member, I will take off the leftover regen before pulling next group. If I see the spell cast arrow beaming down on me from the healer, meaning I am about to get some spell cast on me, I stop, I don't pull. I wait until that spell is done casting and then I pull. I am a lazy tank. I don't like to give chase. If the WHM is constantly giving me regen right before pull, I will either keep taking it off, or I will keep asking them to stop. If they don't stop, the next group I pull I ignore adds as they eat the healer. Then I explain that is why it is best to not regen right before a pull. Especially when I have Stoneskin on. Healer is wasting MP, because I have no missing health yet to heal. But bad for a few different reasons.

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Originally Posted by SamAkemi

Regen is not something you put on the tank every time it runs out. It will generate hate as we all know, but, if you are wondering why the mobs run to you when the tank pulls the next pack, it will be because you are putting a Regen on them towards the end of a fight or before the next pull. Yes, tanks can and do remove it, its no big deal, but if a tank is not checking if its up (maybe grabbing mobs from a dps pulling the next pack or any other reason) WHM cops it, the pull is messy, easy to clean up yes but unnecessary.

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Agreed, and something any WHM should be taking into consideration. Once you're reaching the tail end of a group of mobs, down to the last one or two, and the end of combat is in sight -- there is no need to reapply Regen. Just keep things under control with Cure. You do not want a ticking HoT effect lasting into the next pull, if you can avoid it. In fact, if you want to be fancy, start up a cast of Stoneskin on the tank just before the last enemy dies (I find some tanks do not like waiting around for this).

During many fights many things can happen.

During boss fights there are adds spawning or the PATs in trash areas.

Tank can't wait the last 3 seconds of the HoT before next pull.

Sometimes a tank gets within a fight the idea to pull more mobs.

There is something I've learned from tanks: Good tanks have no issue at all with running HoTs during pull.

I actually used to use Regen before a pull to try and keep on top of things. I never knew it was the reason i kept getting hate right away. Nobody ever said anything so i kept doing it. Knowing is half the battle so just tell a WHM whats going on if you see them doing dumb stuff. Chances are they just dont know. Help them and everyone else and just tell them to stop and why.

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Originally Posted by gehrtalert

I actually used to use Regen before a pull to try and keep on top of things. I never knew it was the reason i kept getting hate right away. Nobody ever said anything so i kept doing it. Knowing is half the battle so just tell a WHM whats going on if you see them doing dumb stuff. Chances are they just dont know. Help them and everyone else and just tell them to stop and why.

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This is very true. Even at 50 you still run into WHMs trying to be helpful by casting Regen and/or Medica II before a pull, and they usually correct this behavior immediately if you nicely let them know that casting HoTs before adds are engaged is giving them unnecessary aggro.

Most people are receptive to advice as long as it's not couched in a negative tone. That's part of how I learned as a new player.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

This is very true. Even at 50 you still run into WHMs trying to be helpful by casting Regen and/or Medica II before a pull, and they usually correct this behavior immediately if you nicely let them know that casting HoTs before adds are engaged is giving them unnecessary aggro.

Most people are receptive to advice as long as it's not couched in a negative tone. That's part of how I learned as a new player.

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Constructive criticism works wonders. Stop trolling people who just dont know. Dont assume everyone knows everything. On my first time running Levi EX... i was healing like normal(not supposed to) and the only thing said to me was "Dude..." "Dude..." "Dude...". If someone doesnt know something or they are going against the fight mechanics then just explain it to them. You will be surprised how far a little explaination goes.

As a new WHM, I'm lucky to run with friends and FC to help me with healing.
There are a lot of new healers though that is not willing to accept any advice.

I was leveling my lancer with friends in Haukke and the healer (DF) kept on using Fluid Aura as if he was doing us a favor, started DPSing when we asked him not to as he was running behind on healing, started sleeping random mobs and then because he ran out of mp, decided to use LB.
When he was given advice (I'm a lvl50 SCH) he told me to leave him alone as he is enjoying the game as he wants to.
It was a very, very long Haukke Manor run.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

There is something I've learned from tanks: Good tanks have no issue at all with running HoTs during pull.

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Indeed.

You guys need to play depending on what kind of ppl you play with.

Daily dungeon with PU ? Don't regen before pull.
Coil/Primals with friends/fc/experimated tank ? Regen as much as you want, before, after, and before again a pull, no one will notice this cause as said KarstenS, actually Regen means nothing when u got a good tank. It's pretty the same for a BLM that will Swiftcast + Ice 3 just 0,3s before the tank actually hits the boss. It's not a big issue like a dramatic thing or so, just relax if u play with good ppl or be attentive when u play in pu team

When I leveled WHM it wasn't until Aurum Vale that a helpful tank told me why not to cast Regen before the pull. My problem, and I expect it is a common one, is that I came from FFXI. In FFXI, Regen works a lot differently, and hate is only generated when it's cast. After it's applied, it produces little hate, if any.

For those interested: in FFXI, Regen just caused HP to climb automatically by a set amount at each clocktick (i.e. every 3 seconds). It was treated as a single action for the caster at the time of casting. Even though the hate generated is minimal, it was best to cast it before a pull, since it freed the healer up to do other things once the mob was engaged. In FFXIV, Regen basically casts a weak Cure every 3 seconds, and treats each one as a discrete action for hate generation.

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Originally Posted by SamAkemi

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I prefer blaming tanks who can't right click their regen tick before pull

I usually try to give out helpful advice when I see dumb stuff going on, but it usually results in me being told to f*ck off. I politely asked the WHM's during a Garuda EX run to stop casting Medica II right when Chirada and Suparna spawned, as the OT was having trouble keeping keeping Chirada, one agreed with me, but then remarked "Remember that when you die", the other went full rage mode and commented "Pull better aggro, scrub tanks". Needless to say the WHM's continued to hilariously tank Chirada through all the wipes with predictable results.

*Disclaimer*
Been healing WHM/SCH since this game was released, only been a 50 Paladin for two months or so.

I knew this a while back when I leveled up my scholar. The OP's post is more towards people that do not know why they are getting the hate, but things do happen where DPS is just so awesome and the WHM thinks that the 7 tics will be gone by the last piece of trash and realizes they will get hate when tank rushes next mob. However, the remedy to this is for the WHM to keep a good distance and the tank can grab the hate just halfway before they reach the WHM/Scholar (in case of whispering dawn).

Now I wish we can find a similar solution to BLM's rushing mobs before tanks can even get in range for a provoke/shield lob etc...

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Originally Posted by BinaryJack

As a new WHM, I'm lucky to run with friends and FC to help me with healing.
There are a lot of new healers though that is not willing to accept any advice.

I was leveling my lancer with friends in Haukke and the healer (DF) kept on using Fluid Aura as if he was doing us a favor, started DPSing when we asked him not to as he was running behind on healing, started sleeping random mobs and then because he ran out of mp, decided to use LB.
When he was given advice (I'm a lvl50 SCH) he told me to leave him alone as he is enjoying the game as he wants to.
It was a very, very long Haukke Manor run.

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Heya Jack!

I'm new to healing 50 content, but my opening for pulls is, let my Tank establish, wait for the Tank's previously-applied Stoneskin to drop.... then re-apply a new Stoneskin and top off with Regen.

Many times the trash packs die before I need to cast another support spell.

Divine Seal affects Regen strength?

(My first 50 job, and still primary, is PLD. I knows Tankin'...)

I'm hesitant to use Regen all the time especially on trash packs, it's annoying if the fight doesn't last long and the tank doesn't remove Regen.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I'm new to healing 50 content, but my opening for pulls is, let my Tank establish, wait for the Tank's previously-applied Stoneskin to drop.... then re-apply a new Stoneskin and top off with Regen.

Many times the trash packs die before I need to cast another support spell.

Divine Seal affects Regen strength?

(My first 50 job, and still primary, is PLD. I knows Tankin'...)

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Yes, DS affects the potency of Regen and Medica II's HoT component.