Ex Difficulty Dungeon Solution

Seen lots of suggestions regarding harder dungeons & SE hasn't responded once.

I know plenty of people would like to see the glory of pre-nerf Pharos difficulty return while SE seems to want to cater to beginners.

Simple solution: please just give us an ilvl sync'd queue (don't be generous, cap it looow) that drops the same dungeon gear but dyeable & 10 ilvl's higher.

Bonus: maybe give us an allied seal reward for ilvl sync roulette.

People can argue we could just put on weaker gear but it can be difficult to convince multiple others to intentionally gimp themselves, especially without incentive (everyone's got that one buzz-kill friend that says, "what's the point!").

If they want to make harder dungeons. Add horizontal gear and make them something that takes real skill to do.

1.0 dungeon difficulty without the speed run element. (dungeons that droped BIS gear that took weeks to master.)

Have them drop equivalent gear to coils.

Then you will have something people can do.

easy mode can be for story and beginners/casuals who just want to log on for an hour here or there and play.


This whole mentality of lets rewards extra difficulty with Vanity gear / Titles is an absurd mentality that needs to stop. It has already failed in Savage... it is why the vast majority are not even trying it. Vanity is false content, it does not improve your character or progress your guild in anyway. It has no place as a reward for anything difficult.

It only failed in Savage because of the shared lockout. Once that is no longer there I imagine a lot of other people will be trying it.

I would add some randomized dungeons, where you can get lost easily or die to a boss until the timer runs out, but also have a big reward at the end based on performance, with an option to scale difficulty/reward, so everyone can enjoy them.

No more EX content or vanity reward, we need something different.

So much vanity now, makes normal content look like extra stuff.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

So much vanity now, makes normal content look like extra stuff.

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But content this hard for dungeons would make ppl explode due to the difficulty of a multi tiered task.
Coil = kill trash/ boss mechanics
Dungeons = run all over dungeon doing objectives/ kill trash / fight bosses / learn each meachanic / lots of traveling

Too much to think about if u make it out like tht lol

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

It only failed in Savage because of the shared lockout.

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I'm pretty sure the lack of more rewarding gear is another/the main reason. People complained about Pharos Sirius' difficulty because it was too hard for the reward it gave (similar to Savage. It's hard and the rewards it gives are exactly the same as normal Second Coil, with the only new reward being something you can only get once).

I think the problem here is SE's approach. They wanted to make an MMO accessible for people new to the genre. Now they want to do the same with 3.0.

They kind of shot theirselves in their own foot because they need to make content for both new and experienced players. This leads to too hard content for new players and too easy content for experienced players (since we only have one difficulty level).

This approach also led to the job system we currently have. There is very little depth but it's very accessible for new players. Unfortunately it leaves SE with little options to create new jobs which work differently.

In all frankness, SE needs to change their approach if we want this to happen.

Problem with Savage is lockout mixed with lack of incentive... title doesn't cut it.

The problem with putting absolute top end gear in say...Savage Coil...is that it eventually winds up barring up and coming players from the content. I've seen it for years in FFXI. It only takes a month or so in FFXI before the /shouts all essentially demand players that already have the gear the content drops. It's been happening since Zilart. I had trouble getting into Sky/Dyna shells because I was late to the party and leaders were requiring that I already have gear from Sky/Dyna to DO Sky/Dyna. It's VERY difficult to even get into endgame groups now in FFXI because every shout demands gear level 119 or GTFO for content that was released BEFORE XI even had gear level (Original Delve areas).

It's a matter of risk / reward. If harder dungeons give some form of useful and unique rewards, people will do them.

People complained about PS since it gives the same rewards as the other easier ones in the set.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm pretty sure the lack of more rewarding gear is another/the main reason. People complained about Pharos Sirius' difficulty because it was too hard for the reward it gave (similar to Savage. It's hard and the rewards it gives are exactly the same as normal Second Coil, with the only new reward being something you can only get once).

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Well u know what, even peeps who have cleared t6-9 savage in my server always said "Peeps won't look upon our Domintrix title, but they will ALWAYS LOOK upon those casual's NEXUS!"

ilvl sync for 50+ dungeons would just make them more tedious by making them less practical to speedrun. It's a nice thought, but in practice it just means taking longer to do the exact same content, which doesn't sound that fun or potentially rewarding.

I don't want dungeons that are hard because your gear suck, that's what the old dungeons are for. I want dungeons that are hard because boss mechanics and hard trash encounters. A dungeon should not date itself because gear progression. In my opinion that's an example of a poorly thought out instance.

Take City of Qarn for example, the bees would instantly one shot someone if they were not killed in time or their final sting not stunned. You could not ignore the mechanics of the 1st boss because they would wipe you.

Dungeons would probably feel more epic if the cool monsters with the funky powers were a regular occurrence rather than just bosses.

The add elevator in T7 feels more epic over the course of a few minutes than most entire dungeons do. Even T4, being full of nothing but trash, is more interesting than dungeon fare since you have to pay a tiny bit of attention to positioning, alternate AoE and single target focus, and mind which mobs you are hitting.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

If they want to make harder dungeons. Add horizontal gear and make them something that takes real skill to do.

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Couldn't agree more, every singles good BIS coming from 1 and unique raid content or from weekly tokens that get outdated when a new ilevel is released start to really get boring :/ we really need horizontal gears progression even if it mean the return of low % drop rates... Some of us re ready for this change, the other part of the community would just react like in front of the Atma challenge though :/

I'm feeling so old as a gamer sometime, hoping for harder game contents that give long goal rewards :( what is the point for the instant gratification rewards iced with a weekly/daily lockout... It's just frustrating :x with so many different dungeons in this game, imagine the possibilities in ex mode! Of course, the rng could be very strong to slow down your progression but you would be proud of your char in the long road.

I'm going to be rude but, people should accept the fact they can't have everything in a mmorpg, especially a final fantasy :/ atmas or mounts drop rate was to me a right decision leading to some sort of hopes for future and if people re not happy with it, maybe they just should go back to classic nintendo games or smartphone games.

Here's a little thought of mine:

Non PF dungeon challenge
-Players form a party of 4
-They visit npcs outside dungeons and agree to attempt the challenge
-Enter dungeon with random handicaps plus item level sync (party max HP/MP/TP down, extra damage taken, extra enemy HP, etc etc)
-Get rewards when they finish

Dungeon boss challenge
-Players form a party of 4
-They visit a newly added area and talk to an npc
-Select a boss from a dungeon and fight them with item level sync plus random handicaps like the above
-Get rewards when they win

Rewards can be anything but my own suggestion would be a souped up version of the loot dropped from the dungeon or boss and are all dye-able. Example: defeat anantaboga in the boss challenge where you're synced to item level 50 (during this fight, you happen to get 'extra toughness on adds' handicap and had to finish the fight with all the adds not dead because after a couple tries you realize that you will never make it in time if you try to down the adds like usual) and winning it nets you a (current max possible ilevel in a slot - x) ilvl AK gear. Any details I provided here are not meant to be absolute and should be balanced as SE sees fit.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

Well u know what, even peeps who have cleared t6-9 savage in my server always said "Peeps won't look upon our Domintrix title, but they will ALWAYS LOOK upon those casual's NEXUS!"

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Lol great quote.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

Lol great quote.

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Haha true lol
Cuz we see it as oh, static raid group go figure.
If u could pick between nexus or a title i think most ppl would take nexus as itd boost their stats vs titles boosting their egos

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm pretty sure the lack of more rewarding gear is another/the main reason. People complained about Pharos Sirius' difficulty because it was too hard for the reward it gave (similar to Savage. It's hard and the rewards it gives are exactly the same as normal Second Coil, with the only new reward being something you can only get once).

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That's not quite the same. Pharos was normal progression content that was inexplicably much more difficult than other content that was supposed to be on the same tier and was too big a jump from previous content.

Savage is challenge content. Savage should be the reason you get all the best gear in normal coil, to challenge the real difficult content of the game. The purpose is for the challenge to be its own reward. The problem with sharing the lockout with normal coil2 is that you can create scheduling problems. Everyone from your main coil group may or may not want to do Savage coil, but because you ran normal content for gear you're locked out. Maybe you're not sure if your group will have time the rest of the week to complete normal mode so you're not sure whether you want to make some attempts at savage and risk not having time later for your normal coil clear or not. The lockout just gets in the way of what could otherwise be challenge content for challenge sake alone.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

I'm going to be rude but, people should accept the fact they can't have everything in a mmorpg, especially a final fantasy :/ atmas or mounts drop rate was to me a right decision leading to some sort of hopes for future and if people re not happy with it, maybe they just should go back to classic nintendo games or smartphone games.

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Atma may not be the best example. There's a difference between content that rewards time and effort invested and content that rewards almost entirely based on RNG. It's a very poor sort of "fake difficulty."

Rare drops of crafting materials and full items in other games are usually balanced by other factors (e.g. you have a .0052 chance of getting a Wand of Awesomeness to drop for free, but you can craft it with a few expensive ingredients and after attaining the requisite level).

I would love to suggest they add new mechanics to bosses & trash mobs too, but I've seen numerous threads suggesting these... and SE doesn't respond. Sad really.