Thm Stats?

Hello,

I was hoping to get some thoughts on what everyone else thought a good stat allotment was. I started out soloing alot, but now I'm grouping as I get higher up. I read a lot of places that dumping points into INT and PIE was good for dmg and getting debuffs to land. But when I'm grouped, my scourge/banish does like 50 dmg usually. I've been thinking about reallocating them into MND since at least I get more mana out of that. I have also been pumping points into VIT for hps, and Dex for crafting. Any thoughts?

Well if your doing Leve's your scourge/banish isnt going to do alot of damage depending on the difficulty you choose. INT and PIE are the best way to go. You wont need a ton of MND because of Siphon and MP Regen in passive mode. Having points in VIT is always good but you don't want to go over board, as you level that stat its going to start costing you more points to raise it. As far as DEX for crafting you can buy the Traits from the THM or CON guild and swap points without sacrificing your points from INT and PIE.

If you're Physical Level 50--and with the recent addition of MP Regen--you can add as much VIT as you want.

INT/PIE make a difference up to a point. I've fought NMs with 90 PIE and with 140 PIE (wearing +20PIE in rings both times) and there's not a significant difference.

VIT will cost more and more as you continue to raise it (2/stat from 40-80, 3/stat from 80-128, 4/stat after that), but it will continue to give you 3HP/point up to 174. If you're looking to solo NMs or something, load up on VIT. If not, load up on VIT.


MND was almost equally important before 1.16, but really doesn't matter anymore. If you're soloing you might want a little bit more, but if you're doing anything in a group, you can cast (for example): poison2/bio2/dia2/shadowsear/sacrifice3 >> enter passive mode and count to 20 >> you have full MP.

Not to mention you still have Siphon MP II and/or Exaltation (50% MP return).

I'm still toying with allocation (I change every day atm), but going with:
VIT - 140ish
INT - 16, or 40-80 if you really want to (take the difference out of MND)
MND - 75-100; I've been dropping this lower, and lower, and lower...
PIE - 80-110; I think it makes a small difference over 100, but it is DEFINITELY a small one.


If one of the coming patches makes PIE/MND/INT more relevant to the casting side of THM, I'll be rolling low VIT 24/7. For now though, they really are expendable.

An update:


Last night I fought NMs with 202 PIE. Base 165 + 20 (rings) + 15 (conversion traits) + 2 (gear).

I noticed no benefit at all over 90 PIE. The stat cap is 174--wasn't sure if that was before/after gear, so I went with 165+stats/gear for 202.

With a Jade Crook +2, I land about 65-75% of my debuffs on NMs. I do use THM affinity trait, but I'm not sure if being CON will just always make my debuffs less likely to land. With 90 PIE, or 202 PIE, I land 65-75%.

I thought I was convinced before but I guess I needed one more trial to put me over the edge...I'm going VIT all the way until a version patch addresses stats having a purpose.

I thought one benefit for PIE was DoT damage. Poison II does kick some butt with high PIE.

Stat scaling is far off (which they admit), and it would be nice to have some actual numbers for DoT damage.

Ah I'm a total noob,my first character is a thaumaturge.....

Okay so I wanna build up INT and PIE....but when should I start pumpin VIT???

ALSO, what order should I build my stats!?!?

Thanks buddies :)

Early on, VIT is your friend! In fact, it impacts play far more than anything else (and it tied to many crafting jobs as well)

I don't think I dropped below 80 VIT until I had some real gear and ran in parties more than solo'n.

It really is the best stat still, but in the hunt for more damage and better debuffs you will start to favor INT/PIE more.

Hope this helps!

I dropped Pie from 100-80 and didn't really notice any noticeable difference in damage from dots or chance of landing the dots. I may raise it up to 90. Question, as a conjurer, do you notice a bump in damage from INT? Or should I keep that around 90 and just pump Vit up?

thanks crowley. now i know the importance of having vit. i do know my char is quite squishy right now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kissell

Question, as a conjurer, do you notice a bump in damage from INT? Or should I keep that around 90 and just pump Vit up?

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I raised INT from 18-90 and raised my damage on Dodore's Minions a little bit--not a lot. There's a noticeable difference, but not a significant one. AOE Water II went from hitting for like 225-250 to around 270-300ish.

Raising it over 80 gives greatly diminished returns. I really wish they'd address this as a higher priority...being able to reallocate however you want is a lot less cool when VIT's the only thing that matter above 80-90 points.

Leveling up the umbral elements helps. Ice Water and Earth

Thanks for your posts Pangy.

At Rank 45 I'm currently allocating 140 Vit, 115 Mnd, 42 Int, 42 Pie. At about Rank 20 I did some casual testing and concluded that Int and Pie are (for all practical intents and purposes) esentially broken at the moment. I just can't believe things are working as SE intended if ~40 points +/- amounts to nothing more than a trivial difference in magic damage or accuracy.

Still, every once in a while I have moments of doubt, so it's good to hear I'm not the only player who's had this experience...

I am CNJ 50 and THM 50 My Stat build is as follows.

Strength 12
Vitality 65
Dexterity 15
Intelligence 122
Mind 115
Piety 108

This setup works very well for me. Shadowsear usually lands for 700+ Drain MP II is around 200+ MP. DoT such as Dia, Bio, and Burn never are too much trouble to land. Also debuffs paralyze, slow, blind etc... Usually always land. If you are having trouble landing spells i suggest trying Purge. This works very well for me.

A player on Figaro named Kaeko Leta (aka http://kanican.livejournal.com/) recently soloed Dodore and Haughtpox Bloatbelly.

Here are the videos:
Dodore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazOD98mqr4
Haughtpox Bloatbelly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKvSEwp9JoI

After watching the videos I remembered this discussion, so I wandered over to FFXIV Pro to check out his stat allocation and found the following:

Strength: 12
Vitality: 174
Dexterity: 15
Intelligence: 17
Mind: 90
Piety: 90

Obviously you will want to max Vit for this kind of soloing, but I also thought it was interesting that he left Int at 17 and didn't bother taking Pie over 90. This would seem to confirm the "diminishing returns" that a few players have mentioned in this thread.

I don't even want to call them diminishing; they're all-but-unnoticeable.

From 90 PIE to 202 PIE I observed no changes- I don't have a parser, but I imagine there would be -something- apparent in that kind of point difference.

Taking INT from 17-90ish did raise my damage on Dodore's Minions, but after ~100 it just seems so minimal, if it's even there.

Even if >90 PIE does make a difference though, you will always land more than enough to survive with 90, and the extra points do the most good in VIT. Yeah, you can get some extra damage from INT, but adding 100 INT will boost like 10-15% damage...which only really helps your speed, whereas VIT lets you live forever!

This is my biggest issue with the game right now. Between party grinding, camps, class uniqueness, endgame/dungeons, equipment/HQs giving same stats-- the stats of a character/class having no consequence (or benefit) just drives me up the wall.

Even if they added all kinds of endgame dungeons/events/areas in the very next patch, playing through them with 174 VIT on a mage just ruins the appeal for me.

Yeah, this game fell into the Diablo II stat allotment conundrum: all stats except VIT suck.

My priority for stats are MND >> INT >> PIE >> VIT atm. IIRC my mind is about 140, INT is about 110, and PIE is at 90. My vit sits at 40, and i dont have points in anything else. I honestly should remove those 40 points in vit, as well... They're pretty useless to me. I only group... I group grind, I group leve, and I group for NM's so the vit is nothing but wasted points for me, seeing as my shell's tank is pretty amazing. Our casters and archers pretty much never get hit... The only time an archer might take 1 or 2 blows is on a hate reset on Buffalo, but even then its really rare. VIT to my THM is a wasted attribute, and having lower vit seems to boost my shadowsears as well. Not by much, mind you, but when i used to have 90 vit, then dropped to 40 i noticed about a 55-60 damage increase off the average cast against NM's.

Only reason i see a THM ever needing VIT is if they're soloing, or if they group with a terrible tank. The THM cone is so massive that you will never be in any mob's AOE if you use it correctly. Just position yourself better, and recruit a gladiator who can hold hate! You only need 1 tank for every NM... I don't see why people multi-tank adds... It's silly and wasteful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoMX

Only reason i see a THM ever needing VIT is if they're soloing, or if they group with a terrible tank.

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Yes, high VIT makes soloing a breeze, but- my issue (personally) is that the "vit build" works for everything.

Yeah, you can take MND to 160 if you want to- you'll get some extra MP which you can siphon infinitely anyway, so you don't need more than 700---and base MP's like 950.
And there's the cure potency too. Was it 1 HP per 2 MND?

INT will get you some extra damage, but you receive diminishing returns after the magical 90 marker, and with unlimited MP, it's not like you need to make the most of what you've got. You can just siphon your entire MP pool back every minute and go back to slamming slightly-lower-than-capped magic.

PIE is my favorite stat---or I'd like it to be---but if I'm gonna suffer the same resist rate with 90 PIE or 200 PIE (with gear), it can go to hell.


The above post is me 3-4 weeks ago. I had ~50 VIT, 'cause it adds little HP for DoM, and I maxed my magey stuff. I didn't take hate often, and could full-heal myself when I did, so there was no reason for more VIT.

After switching to high VIT though...it's not that I like the idea, it's that none of the stats are working.
VIT's not any less broken than the rest, but it gives you HP, and as long as PIE is at 90, HP's pretty much your only beneficial stat.

MP's already endless (you can even go into Passive mode during group NMs for free---and instant---MP), PIE only needs to hit 80-90, and INT---while I want to love it (go BLM!)---just doesn't carry any weight when you have unlimited MP. I boost it to 100ish sometimes for Dodore's Minions, but it's only like a 10-15% increase from INT17.



I really hope they address stats/formulas in the next patch, but I'm not expecting it- maybe 2-3 patches from next. I want to go back to being an INT whore, or to trying to cap my resist rates (seriously, 202 PIE should make a difference).


Oh, and sorry in advance if/for:
-all of my posts turning into rants.
-if I've sounded argumentative- not my intention.

Well, first of all having more MP is beneficial for the following three reasons...

1) Exaltation gives you half your max MP back. If you have 800 mp, you get 400... If you have 1400, you get 700 back.

2) The higher max MP you have the more you seem to regen per tick when your weapon is away. Before I boosted my mind up again, I was getting about 12 a tick for the first few seconds. Now i get a good bit more.

3) All monsters, including NM's and NM adds have an MP pool. Once this is gone you CANNOT siphon MP anymore. You can bleed an NM dry of MP in 3-5 minutes, even if you only have 3 or 4 casters.

Now, lets compare a 170 Mind heal against a 90 Mind heal, which would give 40 less hp than 170 would. If your cure/sac 2 did 350 then it's boosting your cure potency over 10%. If your cure/sac 3 does 700, then it's boosting it 5.7%. Now, I'm sure not everyone cares about getting the best out of their spells and abilities, but to me both of those boosts are pretty intense, and definitely worth while. Why use a light staff on FF11?

There's a good chance that stats for THM really don't matter for any of you guys' shells, but they certainly do for mine. Quite often, I am the only one healing in battles. We have 2 cons who come to the first few fights of the night, but they usually bail before we're done hunting for the night, leaving me as the only caster. We kill all the NM's with 5-8 people, usually. For me, this extra 40 hp healed is essential... But for you guys, i could understand why you have no reason to be a more potent healer... Most shells do throw 12-15 bodies at the NM's usually, after all, lol. You usually probably have 2-4 more casters to pick up the slack if you decided to not even cure at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoMX

3) All monsters, including NM's and NM adds have an MP pool. Once this is gone you CANNOT siphon MP anymore. You can bleed an NM dry of MP in 3-5 minutes, even if you only have 3 or 4 casters.

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I thought you can't Siphon MP any NM, am I wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoMX

Well, first of all having more MP is beneficial for the following three reasons...

1) Exaltation gives you half your max MP back. If you have 800 mp, you get 400... If you have 1400, you get 700 back.

2) The higher max MP you have the more you seem to regen per tick when your weapon is away. Before I boosted my mind up again, I was getting about 12 a tick for the first few seconds. Now i get a good bit more.

3) All monsters, including NM's and NM adds have an MP pool. Once this is gone you CANNOT siphon MP anymore. You can bleed an NM dry of MP in 3-5 minutes, even if you only have 3 or 4 casters.

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These are good points, but will be much better points if/when stats are made more potent.

1) Exaltation was essential before MP regen. Now it's helpful, but I haven't even used it since 1.6. My tanks goes Aegis Boon II >> Deflection- that's ~30 seconds of little-to-no damage. I spend this time with my weapon sheathed.

2) Higher MP adding to MP regen I like a lot. I'll probably take advantage of this when stats are adjusted. Honestly, I'm hoping they raise MP costs, or slow regen or something...to me, MP management was between good & tough before, and now it's a joke- I can't spend it as fast as I can get it back.

3) They do all have their pools, but I've never seen one emptied in 3-5mins. An aoe siphon1 on Dodore's Minions will get me 700+ (which for me is like 80% of my pool). My LS kills Dodore in 6-8 minutes right now, and I haven't had a siphon fail yet.


In XI I used the Light Staff because MP management was pretty delicate, and efficiency was necessary, worthwhile & rewarded. The cure potency was a big help.

In XIV the cure potency helps efficiency, but it's almost harder to be inefficient than not. I'll always want more MP, but when I can siphon for an entire pool, or just put my weapon away for 20 seconds and regain almost 200 MP, I'd rather just add those stats to my INT/damage or PIEcuracy, but since PIE/INT seem to be pretty ineffective after 80-90... I just default to MND/VIT---mainly VIT.


I want to maximize my effectiveness, be the best that I can at my class, but when returns are so curved/diminished, it doesn't (to me) feel rewarding, and my group doesn't really benefit.

I'm coming to the realization that I can't make a post in this thread without it turning into a "change the stat formulas" rant--I'm gonna stop here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Umo

I thought you can't Siphon MP any NM, am I wrong?

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Great Buffalo, Uraeus can't be siphoned. Easy enough to grab crabs/toads/squirrels/doe.

Dodore's Minions can all be siphoned and they stay in the spot where they die even after Dodore dies (assuming you kill him first), so you can AOE siphon minions for 600-700+ MP.

Hotpockets' Bouncers have some MP- when it runs out, just siphon lemur/ladybug/whatever's around.

Just duo'ed Dodo several times this morning. Didn't have it run out of MP once even though it takes a good 20-30 minutes to kill.

Edit: I only have base MND of 17.

I'm only so stupid Thaum and have:
14 Str
40 Vit
14 Dex
And over 110+ Mind, Int and Piety?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laperouge

I'm only so stupid Thaum and have:
14 Str
40 Vit
14 Dex
And over 110+ Mind, Int and Piety?

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I used to have a lot invested in INT,MND,PIE with points, gear, and stat>stat traits. But after reading Kaeko's blog and seeing what a lot of others have had to say, I've begun pouring more into VIT. Before I hovered around 80, now i'm getting up to around 150. My damage really hasn't been suffering at all. I keep PIE somewhat high, and MND mediumish. INT I'm starting to get rid of slowly.

I don't think you should invest in any of the other melee stats other than VIT though