working on Thyrus v.s just getting Yagrush (UAT)

So my Thyrus is only Zenith level (stil stuck on the atma grind) and well, I have an unidentified Allagan Tomestone, and some people have told me that it might be a good idea to just drop the 1300 tomes and the sand of time to just get a yagrush, while other have told me not to because it's a waste of tomes because a fully progressed Thyrus is still best in slot and that I should waste tomes trying to get out of the relic grind because it's unavoidable for everyone.

on one hand, I'm only 4/12 on atma (have the 3 black shroud ones, and 1 of the thanalan ones.) but on the other, I'm only i88 and it would be nice to start using those tomes to replace this i90 or below stuff I'm wearing.

I've been getting mixed opinions on things like "daystar armor is useless/waste of tomes, only buy accesories, don't replace your i90 armor till high allagan" while other's say that I should buy as much gear as I can with tomes because getting into coil 2 to even get high allagan in the first place will be hard since I have no coil 2 experience and well, I don't even have a twin kill yet. (my FC is working on it, but I don't even know if I'm geared to heal it and if they'll even have me in when they get their win. (they're currently at twisters)

Advice on what I should do?

Healer secondaries are inconsequential, ilvl is ilvl, left side ilvl is especially important due to weapon damage and VIT for unavoidable AoE.

Weapon > left-side armor > accessories

Get Yagrush now because I guarantee you can get i110 Yagrush 3x faster than you can get Thyrus Animus.

I would advise you fill in i90 and below gear with Syrcus Tower gear every week that you don't need a sand to upgrade something. This will keep your ilvl healthy while you wait for soldiery.

Get your upgraded Yagrush while slowly working on upgrading your relic. Relics have been very good weapons so far and they probably will be in the future as well, so if you can stand the grind it's a sensible thing to get, in my opinion. Meanwhile, upgrading Yagrush will give you a very nice i110 weapon right away, so you should do that in any case.

It really depends on how much work you want to put into it.

The Thyrus Novus, when melded correctly, is slightly better than the upgraded Yagrush. In addition, once you upgrade the weathered Yagrush, it's done. There is nothing more to do with it. With the relic (once you hit Novus), one can immediately begin on working on the Nexus portion of the quest, which is not just slightly better than Yagrush, it's a lot better than Yagrush (i115 with higher magic damage and mind, and higher secondary stats). Not to mention the fact that the relic will most likely continue to be upgradeable in the future where Yagrush will always stay i110.

EDIT: I have my Thyrus Novus (working toward Nexus), but for my SCH I just got the Book of Diamonds and am using that while working on upgrading my Omnilex Animus to Novus. You could always do the same with the Yagrush and use it while working on your relic quests.

my main worry with Yagrush is the 1300 tome pricetag on it. What I'm worried about is I impulse buy Yagrush and I use a Sand of Time on it, but then I keep working on Thyrus and eventually it gets to the point where I just wasted not only 1300 tomes that could've went to other gear, but a sand as well.

If I buy a sandwich now for $13, is it a waste when you make a gourmet sandwich in 2 months? That's essentially what you're saying. You get to use it now instead of later. It's not a waste. All gear is a waste if you want to think that way.

Sand drops from everywhere now, it's not a rare resource.

I know this is the same, but I got the Weathered Book Of diamonds instead of farming for atma and it's served me just fine. I have full Daystar gear as well, so I ever do decide to do the grind then I can, but right now I'm gonna try to get the high allagan book.

Yeah, but that analogy falls apart because you're not limited to making $4.50 until the next tuesday in the real world. meaning that 13 dollar sandwich took you 2-3 weeks to afford, that you could've spent on other things. But then again, I guess there are "other places" I could get accesories or armor. but I dunno, I'm still struggling to get clears (read: Twin Kill, Primal EX kills) to get into the endgame stuff that drops good stuff, other than maybe Syrcus Tower. (even then someone said "you're an idiot" if you roll on something that isn't sand or oil. someone in my alliance got teased for rolling on armor.)

It takes you 2 weeks to get left side armor through soldiery. An extra week wait for what is easily the most prominent upgrade that will dwarf the others is worth it.

I suppose you're roight, but I dunno, peope with upgraded relics seem to hold that status of superiority over those who use non-relic high ilvl weapons. I had a friend who was called a "lazy scrub" because he used Mirrored Levi EX weapons instead of putting the work in on relic. I can imagine Relic-holders kinda treating UAT weapon users like "slacker plebs" just like people w/ Levi weapons.

Relic isn't hard. It just indicates a lot of time played. I have seen plenty of people with Novus who are completely terrible.

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Originally Posted by Granis

I suppose you're roight, but I dunno, peope with upgraded relics seem to hold that status of superiority over those who use non-relic high ilvl weapons. I had a friend who was called a "lazy scrub" because he used Mirrored Levi EX weapons instead of putting the work in on relic. I can imagine Relic-holders kinda treating UAT weapon users like "slacker plebs" just like people w/ Levi weapons.

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No one acts like this just FYI

I believe this conversation is leaning heavily towards theoretic rather than practical value.

So the question is "Thyrus or Yagrush?". Before that can be answered, consider it yourself: Do you NEED a i110 weapon straight away? Or do you currently heal fine with a Thyrus Zenith? (or Atma for that matter)

1300 soldiery is 3 weeks worth of soldiery. In these three weeks you could be working on your Novus or even Nexus while you can spend 3 weeks worth of soldiery on 1 body/leg piece + something else or 3 accessories/gloves/shoes/hat pieces. 3 weeks worth of soldiery also means 3 sands worth from Syrcus Tower (assuming you always go for Sands in there).

Aside from that, please also consider that u pgrading an animus to a novus will cost a considerable amount of gil. Depending on the materia prices on the server, the novus may cost you several million gils or even ten to twenty million gil worth of materia. On my server it would cost 5 million gil worth of materia just to cap Determination. That's 31 infusion on the novus, hardly halfway there.

Another option would be to settle with Leviathan or Ramuh weapons. Not exactly i110, but i100 sure beats i90 or i95.

It really depends on how much you value soldiery for vs gil vs time spend on the relic. So up to you.

That's actually a fair point, So I guess I should just spend the 1300 tomes I have on getting the UAT weapon.

I'm just worried since most people I see around Mor Dhona all use their relics, I rarely of ever see the really good people on my server with an EX primal weapon or a UAT weapon.

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Originally Posted by Granis

I suppose you're roight, but I dunno, peope with upgraded relics seem to hold that status of superiority over those who use non-relic high ilvl weapons. I had a friend who was called a "lazy scrub" because he used Mirrored Levi EX weapons instead of putting the work in on relic. I can imagine Relic-holders kinda treating UAT weapon users like "slacker plebs" just like people w/ Levi weapons.

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People who act like this are actually doing you a favor. They are letting you know right up front they are huge douch bags who you don't want to party with.

I have the Thyrus Animus and the Yargush. I got my Yargush back when you had to get it through second coil so it was harder to get. That said going from i90 to i100/110 weapon is going to give you a nice boost to your cures. I'd do that ASAP. It would be different if you were say 70/75 on the Novus but your 4/12 on the Atmas you have away to go still.

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Originally Posted by Granis

I'm just worried since most people I see around Mor Dhona all use their relics, I rarely of ever see the really good people on my server with an EX primal weapon or a UAT weapon.

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On my server, most people by far have the UAT weapon. Some people also have their Atma-Nexus relics. Mainly people who are working on them from a stage to another and even then they might only be doing it out of boredom. Ie. I know some people with High Allagan weapons who are just working on those relics out of boredom (like yours truly; Omnilex Atma reporting in :s).

EX primal weapons are mostly for alts, but if you can heal fine with a i95/100 weapon and know you'll be working towards an upgrade while spending your soldiery wisely, then that works as well. When all is said and done though, I'd probably end up getting the Yagrush in your case.

Okay, what people are telling you does make sense....but keep in mind, it also sounds like you are still only challenging 'ilvl 90' centered content. Therefore, tbh, it really doesn't matter too much.

If WHM is your main, then yes you should try to get it's gear score to around ilvl 100+, but if it's not, and you still need to gear other jobs, gear them first.

Upgrade your gear before your weapon in this case. Typically, it's weapon>gear (and technically still is), however, since you are NOT challenging content that requires better than ilvl 90 gear/weapons, it really doesn't matter atm which you do first. But by upgrading your gear first, you can get more pieces quickly and also potentially get further on your Relic weapon questline.

Sold Gear vs. ST gear:
-ST drops the Left side. Of these drops, many are actually secondary stat 'better' for WHM than their Sold counterparts (if you are trying to avoid stacking crit for example). Yes, they are only Ilvl 100, but really, until you farm enough sands, so are the Sold gears. So while again it is true, that the Left side is typically better to upgrade over the right hand side, If you settle on getting 3ish ST pieces for your Left hand side, you can start using your Sold Tomes for Right Hand accessories for your WHM (which you can typically buy faster than body pieces). Furthermore, the accessories are a 'quicker' upgrade if you are using allied seals to do them as oils are cheaper than sands. This also saves you a couple weeks of ST 'fighting for sands/oils time).

Furthermore, if you are trying to get the Yagrush first, that is at least 2 weeks of ST you can't get any gear upgrades if starting from scratch (one week to lot stone/one week to lot sand)+ however many weeks of Tomes you'd need to farm and no tome gear. It just sounds like for now, the gear upgrades would help more.

Thyrus Atmus+ vs. Yagrush.
If you already have the atma collected, and if you really are still only on T5, you probably can skip the Yagrush. It will still take a while to grind out your Atmus weapon (mostly due to having to wait on the gosh darn fates), but again, since you're not actually currently doing anything that requires a weapon better than ilvl 90, it's no big thing to sit with your Atma weapon atm. However, if you still need to farm the Atma, unless you plan on seriously farming them, then you're better off getting the Yagrush, as well, you can't even start the upgrade quests for your relic without atma and if you have yet to gather all your atma, it sounds like your play style is a little too casual to gain your Atmus+ weapon at a speed that would keep up with your content/gear needs.

But Turn 5 with the 20% echo buff is totally doable in a full party in full ilvl 90 gear....anything above that makes it easier, but is not necessary. So really, you need to ask yourself, how long will it take me to have my Thryus Atmus,Novus, etc and weigh that against where you think you'll be content wise at the same time.

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Keep in mind, once patch 2.4 lands, ST will likely be 'unlocked' and you can likely farm the snot out of it. Furthermore, there is a strong chance that Sold. Tomes will have their weekly cap lifted. This means that once 2.4 hits, you can likely farm ST/tomes as much as you need to get the oils/sands/tomestones you need to get yourself ilvl110 or close to it. This is also why I advise for now, just spreading your lots/tome spending where you get the fastest upgrades for your time. If when 2.4 hits, you STILL don't have your Novus or Yagrush, get the Yagrush.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

If I buy a sandwich now for $13, is it a waste when you make a gourmet sandwich in 2 months? That's essentially what you're saying.

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Wow, way to make me hungry. Back to the kitchen!

Weathered Daystar Circlet 495
Weathered Daystar Robe 825
Weathered Daystar Gloves 495
Weathered Daystar Belt 375
Weathered Daystar Breeches 825
Weathered Daystar Sollerets 495
3510
+6 Sands

Weathered Daystar Necklace 375
Weathered Daystar Earrings 375
Weathered Daystar Armillae 375
Weathered Daystar Ring 375
1500
+4 oils

if youre stuck on t5 and the only other content you might actually be doing atm is the ex primals, then how geared do you really have to be right now?

i88 with 20% is more than enough to heal through the fight. i88 is good enough to do all the ex primals that have echo comfortably. Ramuh EX is the only one youd need to be much higher geared.

So really you should be working on your BiS at your pace.

Thyrus upgrades, using sold for ->your<- BiS soldery gear, getting sands and oils to unweather them, and then you can fill the non BiS slots that should be HA with whatever filler gear you desire is what i recommend, ST gear, Sold gear, Ramuh Ring.

since youre not near 2nd coil yet, i dont see a reason to waste the sold on a UAT. just gear up your BiS.

PS: Thyrus Zenith was used in the completion of t9 LOL anything more just makes it easier. but since youre not there yet. Zenith and its upgrades are fine with everything unlocked to you at this time

Im in the same situation as u atm lol.
Just picked up yagrush yesterday as i was lazy etc/ unsubbed and missed a lot of freebies in ST.
I see it as, u might as well rock the easy coil wep and slave over your relic when they nerf it further into the ground. I'm just so put off of killing 100 enemies each book lol.
Its on a different level of boring compared to leveling all gathering classes to 50 lol

I don't know.. I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread, but I also feel like it doesn't matter -that- much whether or not you upgrade your weapon at all.
Pre-50, it mattered a lot. At 50, when it comes to healing, the player's judgment and experience are what really make or break you, because our game comes with a lot of overhealing and healing for 1.1k instead of 1k isn't going to help you overheal more or less. If you were a tank or DPS (or ever plan on helping DPS as a healer), I would say get the Yagrush now, no questions, because you're pretty far from finishing a novus/nexus.

If I were back in your position, OP, I would play with builds and see if I like any, then just work towards it.
On that note, while I do agree that secondary stats are inconsequential, because I believe it's really the player that makes or breaks the healer here (it's all judgment calls and experience for us, whereas DPS gets by with following good skill rotations), I have to acknowledge that differences in build extremes are tangible.

Like a determination-heavy build can heal for over 1300 on average and have an 11% crit rate.
A crit-heavy build can heal for 1200 but have a 23% crit rate.
A speed-heavy build can heal for 1200 but I estimate they'd have their heals cast 0.2 sec faster and recast 0.25 sec faster. For comparison, I used Presence of Mind with 379 spd, Cure was 0.32 / 0.4 sec faster. If said spd-heavy build used Presence of Mind, I'm guessing they'd heal for around 0.65 / 0.85 sec faster. (I don't think you're ever going to need to spam cures that quickly, but that sounds like fun.)
And then I have other unpopular opinions that I'm too lazy to repeat.

Hi OP!

I'm on books and got my Yagrush a month or so ago. It's worth it, tbh. You won't surpass the Yagrush until novus phase, and if you're only at atma then it could be months before you get there. There's potential that Shiva could drop equivalent or better weapons, so part of me wants to suggest waiting to see what we get in 2.4, but if you want something sooner I say go for it!

The way I've been setting myself, since getting the Soldiery UAT weapon is not a bad of a grind as Novus, I just get the Soldiery weaps or any other cool weapon for my alternate classes and dedicate the gruesome grind of novus for my main class, since the result is having the best weap so far for my main. I would die if I tried to get the best weapon for all of my classes, and by the time I get all my classes up to par, SE will expand on the zodiac quest for more gruesome grinds.

I'd definitely advance the relic quest at least for your main class regardless of whether or not you pick up a UAT weapon for it.

If you successfully run Coil as WHM, you can potentially skip a lot of Soldiery pieces since High Allagan healer armor heavily favors WHM in its secondary stat distribution. SCHs have minimal use for HA except for pieces like the earrings and the bracelet.

Of course, 2.4 hits soon, you might want to see what happens.

Well I do want to progress to tough stuff, it's just I recently came abck from a long hiatus and that's why I'm so behind (I hiatused a month or so into Levi patch.) So I'm trying to decide how best I can progress myself to the tougher content.

I'm just struggling with clears ATM. most statics requre I have expierience I don't have yet, and well my gear needs to be better anyway and this how I ended up in an FC that's still working on downing twin. I rarely if ever see pre-levi/moogle EX Primals or Twin on PF, and when they do they expect people to be overgeared and have cleared before. all I see on PF is Coil 2 groups looking for experienced people.

I completely and utterly regret making a novus ( lol it's almost a nexus, what a fugin waste of life... )....

My friend dinged 50 on his whm. When he asks what to get ima say UAT. If he asks " what about this relic shiz?" im gonna say "the big secret is: don't bother "

It's just TOO time consuming. And mind numbing. And boring. And utterly pointless.

Get a uat and chill around until primal focus weaps get released in 2.4. I'm expecting an ilvl of 120-130, so should be good!

True I guess. just a little afraid to commit the 1300 tomes and the sand, knowing I'm gonna need to progress my relic anyway cause WHm is not only my main, but also my only 50.

Everyone makes such a big deal about relic, badgering each other about what stage they're on or how close they are, etc. It makes being a not-relic weapon user feel pretty horrible and discouraged.

plus I'm scared content might get hard enough that eventually fully progressed relics (especially when relics get stronger and stronger stages to make sure they are still top dog and better than other weapons to not piss off relic builders.) will become mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Granis

True I guess. just a little afraid to commit the 1300 tomes and the sand, knowing I'm gonna need to progress my relic anyway cause WHm is not only my main, but also my only 50.

Everyone makes such a big deal about relic, badgering each other about what stage they're on or how close they are, etc. It makes being a not-relic weapon user feel pretty horrible and discouraged.

plus I'm scared content might get hard enough that eventually fully progressed relics (especially when relics get stronger and stronger stages to make sure they are still top dog and better than other weapons to not piss off relic builders.) will become mandatory.

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It's a safe bet that relics will never be the only viable option. They usually aren't even the BiS option except in phases where they get a late boost to catch up to the soon-to-be-former BiS raid weapons.

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Originally Posted by Granis

Everyone makes such a big deal about relic, badgering each other about what stage they're on or how close they are, etc. It makes being a not-relic weapon user feel pretty horrible and discouraged.

plus I'm scared content might get hard enough that eventually fully progressed relics (especially when relics get stronger and stronger stages to make sure they are still top dog and better than other weapons to not piss off relic builders.) will become mandatory.

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eh, I wouldn't let all of the relic talk intimidate you.
Some people build their relic to give them more versatility--different gearsets for different situations.
For some people, relic just gives them something to do.
For some people, they're hardcore and want to bring out that extra 2% from their character, to be the very best, like no one ever was.
And then some people feel that if it's potentially the best gear, then it's the only option worth considering.

Most of the time, when I hear people comparing their progress with each other, it's just friendly competition or a vague way to see if they're making good progress. I doubt they're trying to rub it in your face.

If anyone actually talks down to you for not having an up-to-date relic, then they're full of themselves. Not everyone has the time for it, not everyone finds it fun or even tolerable, and having one doesn't automatically make you the most powerful being on the planet. Knowing fights and how to play your class well are more important.

If Yoshida holds true to what he's been saying, then there will never be only one path to progress in the game. Relics will always be special in their own way, and weapons from endgame raids like coil will be special in their way, but there's always been at least one alternative. A few times, he's said that he wants the game to be like an amusement park, where there are many things you can choose to do. Options for the hardcore, for the casuals, for the people with a lot of time, and the people who don't. And he doesn't want the game to evolve in such a way that newer and older players will have this unbreachable gap separating them, so gradually harder content gets eased as new stuff comes out.
If a route is not fun or not enjoyable to you in some way, then don't do it. It defeats the purpose of the game then and you have the choice to spend your time on something else.

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Originally Posted by Granis

....Advice on what I should do?

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If I were in your situation, I would give survivability higher piority, use SOL on LEFT side gear, then RIGHT side, just leave the UAT for ALT job to use,
then starting from now, every ST just NEED sand to upgrade LEFT side, go hunting get oil for RIGHT side.

For the long term reason is remember that in the process to obatin Animus/Novus/Nexus, you need to have Thyrus equipped,
therefore I think overall Yagrush will help you for shorter time than others gears.
From the view point to saving tomes, I would try to save this 1300SOL+sand first because apparently Thyrus is your main relic. ^^;

Short version:
Since you cannot equip Yagrush while farming ATMA, therefore upgrade other gears first should be more beneficial.

I put my foot down and made a decision and just decided to spend the solderity on other gear. (that i70 ring needed to go bad, plus I picked up some new pants and used a sands of time on them) the only problem now is I'm shancled to the relic grind or hope to god I can get a weapon off Leviathan EX or something assuming I can learn and get that fight down to a level where I can farm it instead of use my UAT. Plus if my FC downs Twin we can maybe start farming it and I can go for the Allagan weapon maybe until I get relic progressed.

Honestly that's what I did- I didn't quite get a Levi weapon before my Animus but I have two job I consider primary (WHM and BLM) but my WHM is now Animus level. I didn't rush, I didn't grind till my face turned blue and I used my tomes on gear. I healed just fine with my Zenith honestly.

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Originally Posted by Granis

I put my foot down and made a decision and just decided to spend the solderity on other gear. (that i70 ring needed to go bad, plus I picked up some new pants and used a sands of time on them) the only problem now is I'm shancled to the relic grind or hope to god I can get a weapon off Leviathan EX or something assuming I can learn and get that fight down to a level where I can farm it instead of use my UAT. Plus if my FC downs Twin we can maybe start farming it and I can go for the Allagan weapon maybe until I get relic progressed.

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If you can't be bothered with the relic, the Allagan cane (from T5) will get you quite far. The Yagrush does make healing comfortably, however. Then again, using a slightly underpowered weapon does forge and mold you into a good healer (assuming you can pull off with it)

I did choose the Yagrush. For me, the relic weapons are just a big waste of time. Yagrush is more then enough to beat every content in this game so far without any problems. As far as i know, Square will add new tomestones with patch 2.4. So they will remove the mytholgy-stones from the game, soldiery-stones will be the next mythology-stones. That means you can get the 1300 stones very fast.

Just think about it. Upgrading your relic weapon to nexus will take 70-80 boring hours of grind (idk, correct me if i am wrong). Then you have a slightly better weapon compared to yagrush. And then, you can get the next ilvl 120+ non-relic weapon some months after they did release patch 2.4 for almost the same conditions as for yagrush.

So in my opinion, always go for the best non-relic (not talking about ha) weapon in the game, because its just not worth it to grind such a ridiculous amount of fates and whatever just to have a slightly better weapon for some months.

If you're only currently at the Zenith stage I'd just get Yagrush at this point. Maybe wait for 2.4 to see if they nerf the further relic stages since it's a lot of effort and potentially gil if you want one with the best off stats. There will do doubt be quicker alternatives coming soon but you might have to wait until closer to 2.5 unless you do 3rd coil.

I just didn't have the tomes to spare for Yagrush so I'm progressing my relic just as something I can do while buying my armor/accesory upgrades. though I do plan on hopefully doing twin with my FC, and spamming EX primals for alternative weapons though.

Just remember that upgradng your weapon will increase you cures by more than upgrading your entire left side armour. Ideally it should be the first thing you upgrade if you have the means to do so.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Just remember that upgradng your weapon will increase you cures by more than upgrading your entire left side armour. Ideally it should be the first thing you upgrade if you have the means to do so.

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I know that, but I just felt dirty with that i70 ring still equipped, I had to rectify it and turn 4 refused to drop it's ring. I figured since I was short tomes for the weapon after buying the ring, I might as well bay the pants.