HA vs Nexus, some Nexuses have higher stats?

Not a new player, still appropriate place to ask I think?
I noticed for High Allagan gear that has Determination, the Nexus can get higher secondary stats: the High Allagan Spear has 32 Crit/32 Determination, but Nexus can go 46 Crit/32 Determination. Same with High Allagan Bow and High Allagan Shield, which lose out to an identically statted Nexus as the latter can go beyond what the High Allagan has.

Is there a reason the Nexus is blatantly better in those cases?

Nexus ignores stat weights, which governs the amount of secondary stats on dropped weapons.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Nexus ignores stat weights, which governs the amount of secondary stats on dropped weapons.

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That explains why it's possible, but I'm curious why the decision was made to permit Nexuses to be blatantly better by simple virtue of investing stat points? I'm curious if it's a simple oversight and that HA weapons should be improved if it is─I was under the impression Coil rewards were meant to be "the best" to reward the players who could clear the Coils, whereas Nexus is meant for those who do not have the ability to do so but would still like to compete with the rest in terms of item level, i.e. you're not stuck at i110 weapons just because you can't clear Coil.

This seems to disagree with that notion and instead offers that HA weapons are meant for those who do not have the skill to conquer the challenge of acquiring Nexus?

Troll thread is troll thread. It takes over 90 hours, if you lucky, to go from relic to nexus. Ha weapon can literaly, if lucky, be obtained in less then 15.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Troll thread is troll thread. It takes over 90 hours, if you lucky, to go from relic to nexus. Ha weapon can literaly, if lucky, be obtained in less then 15.

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You know progression take more time than that if you want to be able to clear in a respectable amount of time. But I guess you don't know since you didn't make it to the end of T9.

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Is there a reason the Nexus is blatantly better in those cases?

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because nexus is 2 or 3 week old content and ha is 6 month old content

So way to ignore people have a real life, working 6-7 days a week. Sometimes I like to play with friends, I generally expect to progress slow. Sometimes a join a new group with half the people never doing the turns b4 and we clear t6 and t7 the first night. Progress for my old group might have taken forever, however, especially this late in the game, I could join a t9 progression group and get the clear after a few days, like I did with t5. The only reason I haven't is because moved out to the country for a little bit and only have 3 mbps and a completely unreliable connection. I also don't care this time around this I spent over 100 runs in t2 and t4 to get the mage gear I needed and similiar stuff happening this time around made me not care. I would rather pay off my student loans, then rely on God awful rng.

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Originally Posted by No2631

Not a new player, still appropriate place to ask I think?
I noticed for High Allagan gear that has Determination, the Nexus can get higher secondary stats: the High Allagan Spear has 32 Crit/32 Determination, but Nexus can go 46 Crit/32 Determination. Same with High Allagan Bow and High Allagan Shield, which lose out to an identically statted Nexus as the latter can go beyond what the High Allagan has.

Is there a reason the Nexus is blatantly better in those cases?

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Is there a reason the Nexus can't be better? Is it not allowed? Because the message I'm getting is you don't think it should ever be.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Troll thread is troll thread. It takes over 90 hours, if you lucky, to go from relic to nexus. Ha weapon can literaly, if lucky, be obtained in less then 15.

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Most groups take 2 months of raiding 3 times/week to learn and clear T9. This doesn't include the previous time invested in 6-8. Then they have to farm it for the drops which take an average of 20 clears to gear their entire static. I'm not sure how you can even compare the two when nexus takes an average of 35 hours farming old content to get.

Except nexus phase alone takes 11 hour at they very least if you have 8 people farming non stop and the bonus is always a fast fight, reality is closer to 30hrs of just fighting, ignoring getting and replacing members and tracking down light bonus since the spreadsheet is almost nvr updated). atma phases takes on avg 20hrs, books take 30hrs(1500 myth +completion time), and novus takes 30+hrs(75 alex, 800 myth/200seals, really this is closer to 50hrs).These are all assuming insta ques, not waiting 7hrs+ for fates(like most people do) and completely ignoring the 5-9 million in gil thats another 30-70 hrs, if you want to make a determination based weapons. This is not avg this is best case scenario. A group that spends 3 month learning t9 to clear it is taking wayyyyyyy to long. And I said only 1 run because we are using best case scenario. Just like you can go 20 runs of T9 and never see your weapon, I spent over 40 hrs collecting all 12 atma, and had 2 fates that took 7hrs to spawn, luckily my job at the time allowed me to do this. Even now when I'm collecting atma set number 2 it's been 200 fates since my last atma and fates/hrs are dramaticly lower due to no one else doing them or people killing random fates instead of working together. 30hrs for a nexus 1000% impossible. However I can and will start t9 as soon as I move, and i will have it cleared in under 3 weeks. I'm not talking about a group thats been goingno for months. I'm talking about an individual who starts now, will spend 100+hrs, unless super lucky then maybe 70(when atma first came out not now)getting nexus, where as a skilled player can join a group already on t9, or t9 practicing and clear it in a matter of days

Coils by far is faster over all, trowing out fring benefit gear, once you have coils on farm which for most clear groups is immediatly after their first run you average time spent on a weapon noes dives, farming light for nexus is about 1 a minute so about 34 hours for that phase.

For the sake of argument lets throw range out of both equasions.
Assuming a group spent 16 hours a week for 3 months learning coils thats 192 hours, plus 7 more hours to even everyone in the group out to 1 weapon just gonna round this to 200 to make it easy. Subsequent weapons are 8 hours each for a total of 264 or about 30 hours a weapon.

The light phase of a relic is about 1 for 1 so about 34 hours a weapon, plus a more realistic 25 hours for the alex (not factoring in cost of mats) total time per weapon is a static 60 hours a piece. Total of 480 for all 9.
They break even at 4 at which point coils is faster. (And easier if we are using time as the measurement).

tldr: difficulty meassued at time spent is subjective to how many you want, on average that makes nexus the harder to get weapon.

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Originally Posted by Rex

Because the message I'm getting is you don't think it should ever be.

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Nexus should be better if you pick the appropriate stats, but it should not have a stat advantage over High Allagan if the intent was that the Nexus is a separate line meant for players who aren't into Coil. I think both should have the same capacity, like if a High Allagan Spear has 32 Determination, it's appropriate it should have 46 Crit like the Nexus version can attain. Seniority has no real basis to state that one must be blatantly superior to the other only in specific instances: I think people are forgetting that the High Allagan Staff, for example, has identical stat heights to its Nexus variant (72 points total), but in the case of a High Allagan with Determination, the stat total goes up to 64, whereas a Nexus still acquires the normal 72 points.

Neither should be blatantly weaker or stronger than the other, but in specific instances the Nexus trumps the High Allagan, where this isn't the case everywhere. Those're discrepancies, and I'm curious whether these are by design, or whether they are an oversight.


To those who are arguing the time taken to acquire either:
Please do not derail the thread with something irrelevant. The fact is that in three specific instances, High Allagan gear has a smaller stat point total than a Nexus can acquire, and I'm curious why this is. It's OK if one is better than the other (and I'd argue Nexus is better regardless, due to stat flexibility), but there should not be a case where one is better simply due to a sheer advantage in capacity.

The reason it's better is it only obtained this level in 2.38, when 2.4 comes out do you all complain that the new tome gear is 10 ilv's better than previous coils or that the new coil weapon will be 20 ilv's higher than the previous one too. So it is the best for about another 3 more weeks at max then it's just another weapon. I'm sure the patch will add in a new set of long arduous quests to push the relic up to the stage below the new coil. Up until 2.48 when the same pattern will be repeated and the relic will equal (in item level) the newest coil drop.

And by "better" we are talking a very very marginal increase aren't we... Like youd be hard pressed to push more than 1% extra from a nexus vs high allagan

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

So way to ignore people have a real life, working 6-7 days a week.

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Oh no the IRL card.

Not like people who work fulltime and have kids and a family can't be part of a static that kills T9. This has never happened ever in this game it is impossible. Only basement dwellers who never log off can beat T9.

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Originally Posted by No2631

To those who are arguing the time taken to acquire either:.

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Here is your "non-derailed" argument: materia enhanced equipment has always had higher total stat capacity then equal ilvl non-materia gear. Nexus is indeed materia enhanced. the only thing new here is they can exceed what was considered the norm for single stat caps by a very marginal amount.

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The reason it's better is it only obtained this level in 2.38, when 2.4 comes out do you all complain that the new tome gear is 10 ilv's better than previous coils or that the new coil weapon will be 20 ilv's higher than the previous one too.

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The i80 Labyrinth of the Ancients gear was made available after the i90 gear from Coil, and I didn't see anyone arguing it should be better; moreover, we are talking about weapons of the same item level in a sub-patch, not a new patch. This kind of argumentation is flawed as seniority has nothing to do with selectively being better when presented on a level playing field: this was not a problem with i90 Rowena weapons being introduced after i90 relic weapons.

The High Allagan Staff, again, has the same stat distribution of 72 points as the Nexus has, but the same is not true for the High Allagan Bow or Spear. This is a discrepancy.


Lollie: That's at least a satisfying response, though it's still somewhat curious that this only applies to three specific pieces and not to all; someone earlier said there was a stat weight for Determination that's higher than other stats, and granted, but given that the maximum for that on a Nexus is already lower, there's no satisfying reason to explain why the stat weight doesn't apply to Nexus weaponry. "But it came later!" isn't a satisfying argument when the developers sold the zodiac quest line to everyone as "a sideline to Coil gear".

Nexus is not comparable to HA as HA requires skill and attention where as the relic is simply a gimmick to keep people busy. Simple as that. Relic is a time sink. End game raid weapon is skill. That's it , the stats are only valid until the new raid weapon is out. So your arguing something only relevant at the end of a patch. This will never end

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Originally Posted by FizzyGiggles

Nexus is not comparable to HA as HA requires skill

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Does buying a T9 kill/carry count as skill? lol

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Originally Posted by No2631

Nexus should be better if you pick the appropriate stats, but it should not have a stat advantage over High Allagan if the intent was that the Nexus is a separate line meant for players who aren't into Coil. I think both should have the same capacity, like if a High Allagan Spear has 32 Determination, it's appropriate it should have 46 Crit like the Nexus version can attain. Seniority has no real basis to state that one must be blatantly superior to the other only in specific instances: I think people are forgetting that the High Allagan Staff, for example, has identical stat heights to its Nexus variant (72 points total), but in the case of a High Allagan with Determination, the stat total goes up to 64, whereas a Nexus still acquires the normal 72 points.

Neither should be blatantly weaker or stronger than the other, but in specific instances the Nexus trumps the High Allagan, where this isn't the case everywhere. Those're discrepancies, and I'm curious whether these are by design, or whether they are an oversight.


To those who are arguing the time taken to acquire either:
Please do not derail the thread with something irrelevant. The fact is that in three specific instances, High Allagan gear has a smaller stat point total than a Nexus can acquire, and I'm curious why this is. It's OK if one is better than the other (and I'd argue Nexus is better regardless, due to stat flexibility), but there should not be a case where one is better simply due to a sheer advantage in capacity.

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Okay, fair enough. I agree.

Nexus is for players who are engaged in coil actively, but are being screwed over by gear/weapon RNG (no drops) or player RNG (can't find competent people or static).

The fact that someone who doesn't do coil has access to nexus is meaningless, as the iLevel would be overkill anyway for that particular player. Nexus/soldiery is the fallback option for coil raiders who are getting the loot shaft week after week

It is not *for* non-raiders. People need to stop saying this.

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Originally Posted by No2631

Neither should be blatantly weaker or stronger than the other, but in specific instances the Nexus trumps the High Allagan, where this isn't the case everywhere. Those're discrepancies, and I'm curious whether these are by design, or whether they are an oversight.

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I'd say it's probably somewhere in between, but leaning more toward oversight. My guess would be that they spent just enough time to make sure things aren't horribly off-balance between the two, and they're comfortable leaving it where it is for a few patches.

It's obviously not a huge priority for them to make sure Allagan/High Allagan/whatever top tier raid gear in general is absolutely, unquestionably the best, or BiS lists wouldn't include a mix of gear from other content.

Det is weigted at about 30% lower when factoring ilvl caps compair to say crit. Relic treats all stat caps like the are primarys since you may have people applying materia in any order. It has everyone apply a combination of 75 at that phase in development to keep it fair across all jobs as well.

The other thing to consider is are the HA weapons even stat capped for their ilvl or ever intended to be? Compairing the HA weapons agaist each other they dont even match up to having equal comparative state values. The answer may be HA were intended to be balanced not necesarily fair, and relic fair but not necesarily balanced.

I'm not sure why nobody has noticed this, but it's most likely that SE couldn't be bothered to account for the weighting since that would either cause some determination (or piety) materia that you used to have no effect, or allow someone using determination and/or piety to collect fewer pieces of alexandrite. I imagine they noticed the problem and felt the best course of action would be to allow the weapon to be slightly better since it makes almost no discernible difference.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

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Actually I think they didn't bother with calculated weights simply due to the fact that the relic is customized and, if they ever decided to nerf/buff a stat, it would create a balancing nightmare on weapons they have no control over. If they nerfed determination at some point in the near future, they can just create weapons to reflect this change. They can not alter relic weapons after they have been customized since it would invalidate the time/gil the player spent on that stat.