Undercutting

So the inferno Horn usually sells for 1.2 mil at the least. So people are so desperate for gil you will undercut someone and the idiots follow along with this clown, to go as low as 900k? Where they do that at?

Why not buy their horn and resell for profit?

Welcome to economy 101.

It's called competition. It's existed since the dawn of time and you see examples of it everywhere you look. If a competitor can't get a better product, prices will come down so they can guarantee sales. Since all the 'products' in FFXI remain pretty constant, aside from HQ items, there will always be undercutting to a good extent as people want to guarantee that THEIR item is the one which sells, rather than their competition.

After all, what's better? Putting an item up at full 'normal' price, and waiting up to a few days for a sale, or lowering the price a little and guaranteeing a quick sale?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

After all, what's better? Putting an item up at full 'normal' price, and waiting up to a few days for a sale, or lowering the price a little and guaranteeing a quick sale?

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I mean, it really depends. If I'm not sure the item will sell because I judge its value to be intangible, then I'll undercut to get rid of it. But if someone undercuts me for things that require materials from crafts and such, I will just remove my item from the shop and wait for theirs to sell before putting mine back up. I have 59 other items selling and I'm not going to trip because one or four of them were undercut.

@OP:
All I can say is, calm down Sparky! You don't need that 1.2m tomorrow or the next day.

Instant gratification. It's stupid but rules the mind of the majority. Things like FC demi III's Savage X materia's, Horns, all sell well and for a good amount of cash, till you get the impatient that happened across something worth some gil and want's it RIGHT NOW!!!!

The things I sell I do so on a consistent basis and am pretty aware of their ups and downs, weekend sales etc.. If i put up some demi's at what they should go for and jacktard comes behind me and undercuts me that's ok, Mine will sell, even if it takes a day or so. I'm not hard up for the cash so I can wait.

But OP, yea it sucks, but let their stuff disappear so your's can sell or as suggested, buy their and repost, to maintain price and make a profit.

So let me get this straight..it's ok to oversell something at a ridiculous price..but once someone undercuts you, it's a bad thing?

it's just because people spam garuda/moogle/ifrit HM when they have the nexus bonus while they were not heavily farm before, then the supply increase a lot.

just like the primal demimateria drop from>300k to less than 100k within 2days of the nexus quest release and now you have hundreds listed at <50k on the board

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

So let me get this straight..it's ok to oversell something at a ridiculous price..but once someone undercuts you, it's a bad thing?

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I will agree to a point. Some prices for some things are just...wtf. Map minions come to mind. Other things though, that have gone through a "standardization" period, such as ores, ingots, jewlrey etc., what is the point of marking it down a few thousand just to get the quick sale?

Price and acceptability of price is perception. i70 HQ pieces were the cat's meow back in the day easily netting a few mil not to mention the melding of said pieces. Today they go for much, much less.

Same with the current state, new crafting stuff is wanted. SO supply and demand kick in.

WHat OP is talking about is a drop, so yea there might be an issue with that. As mentioned things get ran more so and abundance of rare items become available. That is different though from farmed, gathered, crafted items.

I am sure there have been times where you have gotten something good to sell and were like yea!!!! Then put it up, and a day later its there because 7 a$$hats decreased the asking price by 5 each. If not then lucky you. It happens and is annoying at times.

In general undercutting is unwelcome and bad form.

Well leave your horn up for 1.2mil whats the problem? You actually sound like the desperate one because you are complaining about the undercut meaning you want yours to sell quick at that value forcing you to either undercut him or keep it as it is.

The person who undercut you could probably care less about the gil but you on the other hand care so much you made a topic about it.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

So let me get this straight..it's ok to oversell something at a ridiculous price..but once someone undercuts you, it's a bad thing?

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It is when the retard undercut you soo low where you can make a profit just selling the item to an npc. I've seen people selling things on the AH for 1 Gil when you can just npc it for 4-20 Gil.

Ahh... the weekly undercutting complaint.

Do you also get mad at gas stations when one sells fuel a few cents less than another? No. No you don't. You fill up.

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Originally Posted by Beyondgrave

It is when the retard undercut you soo low where you can make a profit just selling the item to an npc. I've seen people selling things on the AH for 1 Gil when you can just npc it for 4-20 Gil.

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You are talking about a totally different topic. In this case, OP is just complaining that someone undercut his highly overpriced shiny item. Note that nowhere that it states that "you should sell it at this price or you are an idiot". Everyone can choose to sell items at whatever price they choose. Are they making a profit? Are they losing profit? That's their problem, not mine, not yours and certainly not the OP.

Why so serious bro? All the undercutter wants is the sale that should've been yours originally :P

I am an undercutter.
Why.
Because I never have an issue putting items up and having them sell.

This helps me make more gil then someone holding out for XXXX amount. If I need the said item and other undercut it more when I need it guess what. It will be cheaper then when I put it on the boards. So I again and net gain on gil.

Thinking an item should be said amount and getting upset that someone is willing to get less for it, When every patch items because basically useless is crazy. Get what you can and move on.


If someone has issues with undercutting, they should take a stand and only buy the most costly version of anything on the boards. NQ Rosewood log 34 gil each for 10. No I need to take a stand and buy the NQ rosewood log for 300 to fight the undercutting people. Sorry not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

After all, what's better? Putting an item up at full 'normal' price, and waiting up to a few days for a sale, or lowering the price a little and guaranteeing a quick sale?

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You have a valid point, as do most of the people in this thread, but this is a bit of a misconception in regards to expensive/slow moving items with a wide profit margin.
From a seller's perspective, I wanna milk as much as I can out of a single item, and so I'll resort to minimal undercuts to preserve the price. It's fine if you don't.
But doing 25k, 50k undercuts on an item that moves so slowly doesn't guarantee a sale, because people will invariably check their retainers & see the undercut before the item moves, and then undercut you by 5g or whatever.


It should be expected that you'll get undercut, regardless of what you undercut by, on items that basically print money.

Thavnairian Onions are a good example. They've dived about 500k in the last week or two on my server because some bright bozos keep trying to do "quick sale" undercuts.
The material cost to produce an onion lies around 170k assuming 14k soil (plus excessive growth time).
I won't complain (too much, heh) if you do, because it's still massively profitable to sell an onion at x-25k, but it's devaluing the time (plot & player) required to generate it unnecessarily, because with a margin that wide coupled with slow rate of sale, people will happily still undercut you. There's no advantage gained when an item meets those criteria.

For faster moving items, sure. It's certainly a feasible tactic.

Here's my question...how long has that horn been sitting at 1.2mil? If it's been a while...your price is too high. If the norm is that, then ok, he wanted a quick sale.

But I see this all the time; people complaining about being undercut, but their item is up for more than the "normal" sell-price.

I dunno..what's more irritating: someone undercutting you by 300k and theirs sells instead of yours, or undercutting you by 1 gil and theirs selling instead of yours. Looks like either way you don't get any gil.

Wow this again, sometimes I just want to clear out inventory space. Garage sale pricing anyone?

900k is still a lot though, and 1.2 million is more than it should be sold for anyways

I only have a problem with undercutting when it makes no sense to do so, like something that sells instantly already and is brought down to a price that is barely worth selling it at

whine and cry.... You're never happy. Point: I had players complain because I bought an item at a "High" price which leads to increasing the base price... lol. GET OVER IT. Buyers determine the price. NOT sellers....

Someone in an identical thread once said:

"I love undercutting. Its like crafter pvp.

And I laughed really hard, and started undercutting. Come at me, bro

If his item was truly highly underpriced then you would be looking at it as an opportunity to buy and flip the item for profit. Since you aren't it is fair to assume you are overpriced. If I know that that horn will sell at 1.2mil I would be for sure buying the one at 900k and making an easy 300k (minus taxes) profit. Sounds like you are just whining because you didn't get to overcharge someone. Boo freaking hoo.

That's what happens with the high ticket items. Lots of competition, and not too many buyers.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

So let me get this straight..it's ok to oversell something at a ridiculous price..but once someone undercuts you, it's a bad thing?

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of course ^^

your lucky someone didn't go sell it for 450k just because they really don't care about money.

Caught someone doing that with DET IVs.... checked the AH obsessively for about a week... they were selling for about 500k, fluctuating from 485-515. Every so often the same dude would sell them for 200k, and id swoop and buy them, and re sell.

I sell my stuff at average market value. I don't bleed people but I dang sure am not running a charity. I believe in fair wage for work provided. I am gonna get mine, lol.

Thing is some people try to set items to be the price but in turn are overpriced to begin with.
So many items sell for crazy amounts, like items you can just get yourself by hunting enemies and such but people pay because they either do not know or just do not care to gather themselves.
Depends as well how much lower, if it is much lower yes it sucks however

You know there is no need to respond by stooping to the level of the under-cutters. I had an unhidden map, that I priced as the highest and I actually even forgot about it. 2 weeks later is sold for 500K, when everyone was undercutting down to 250K or less. All it takes is some patience and just wait. If you got the guts and believe the stuff is priced too low, buy low and sell high. It is a flipping opportunity, you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to beat the undercutters in their game.

Supply and demand, if the item is selling at your price quite often then an undercut by more than 1% is stupid, if it is a slow moving item, i.e. thavnairian onion this item will drop in price gradually as supply increases due to being a low demand at that price and a high supply.
What I do when people undercut my stuff that I know will sell quickly is buy it and resell it at a higher price, usually if the item is at 60% of my price. I.e. HQ Volcanic Rock Salt, I sell it for 3k but people undercut it down to 1.5k, I buy theirs and resell it at 3k, that's about 1,5k profit - taxes or barely any time spent.

Gonna be blunt, but I usually try to price things below the lowest current item on the MB because I want things to sell quickly. Time is money, as they say. The sooner I have freed up spots on the MB, the sooner I can put new things to sell.

I don't slash prices, of course. But the logic makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

Gonna be blunt, but I usually try to price things below the lowest current item on the MB because I want things to sell quickly. Time is money, as they say. ..

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Time is money, and little time = little money. So the impatient will do this and get very little and they complain when the next impatient one undercuts them. So price it higher, try second lowest, you'll be surprised how often that sells very quickly too. So then you can step to 3rd lowest. And before you know it, you really understand what time you like and money you like. If find if I always put things at lowest, I am out of stuff to sell fairly quickly, and I really don't want to fill up 40 slots (20x2retainers) selling 20 gil, or heck 200 gil items. The time spent pricing them and putting them on the board is also overhead, and I am better off farming or crafting some bigger ticket items.

If demand exceeds supply, you have nothing to worry about. The undercut product will sell, and so will yours.

If supply exceeds demand, you will need to lower your price. The so-called "undercut" price is now the new standard, and you're going to have to adapt.

NO price for ANY product is too high, if the product sells. The act of the product being purchased justifies the cost. Buyers who complain about the things they want being too expensive are whiners, nothing more, nothing less.

By the same token, if your product does not sell at the price you desire, you are trying to sell it for more than it is worth. Any seller who complains about undercutters are whiners, nothing more, nothing less.

It's all very simple; I'm really not sure why people have so much trouble grasping it.

What I find the most amusing is the amount of complaining that was going on around here with regards to housing prices. So many people don't have Gil but that's probably because so many undercutters don't seem to mind killing the price of anything worth selling as long as theirs sells first. "Well, I may be getting 80% less than what it was initially worth, but at least my stuff sold." Congratulations you're homeless.

If you craft something and post for 2000 profit what right do you have to demand I do the same? If I'm OK making 1k profit per synth, then you are not 'right' nor am I stealing from you. I just decided of my own will to do your job for half the price.

This means either:
1: i have a cheaper/better source of acquiring materials (your just not as efficient. Sucks to be you. Crafter PvP point to me)
2: i value my time differently than you (you craft 1 min to make 2k, i do the same for 1k)
3: I'm doing a fire sale and just dumping (you should buy and resale or wait out the flush. It's temporary)
4: im stupid and don't realize I'm selling at a loss. I'll eventually burn out since I'm bleeding Gil or wise up.

1 and 2 you gotta man up and compete or get out of the market. They are doing no evil or wrong so put up or shut up. 3 is a temp wave you just ride it out or flip their product. 4 is rare and people to stupid to actually make a profit crafting either give up or get wise pretty quick.

No one is stealing your gil. They are just out competing you or dumping inventory. Get smarter or keep making QQ threads, your choice. But I prefer you keep making QQ threads because they are hilarious and i keep my markets since you guys refuse to compete with me and keep posting stuff higher making my undercuts look so good by comparison everyone buys it asap. I should be thanking you guys! Much obliged!

It's like some of you guys never managed competing prices in a live market before.

If someone is willing to sell something at a lower price, you either wait for the price to go back up or you make a strong competing offer.
Supply and demand.
Risk and reward.
Economics are fluid.

whats really stupid is when a seller puts up their crap for 1/2 the history sale price, ultimately killing any profit from it.

i don't care if you want to undercut, but do it while using your brain.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

whats really stupid is when a seller puts up their crap for 1/2 the history sale price, ultimately killing any profit from it.

.... using your brain.

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I think the brain should tell you that there is a really good way to double your money about now if you see something like that. 10 days ago, some clown did that with erudite picatrix of healing with the right mats melded and was selling it for 1/2 price. I bought the thing and sold for double that at 250K netting me 125K. I wish I can find more flip opportunities like that.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

whats really stupid is when a seller puts up their crap for 1/2 the history sale price, ultimately killing any profit from it.

i don't care if you want to undercut, but do it while using your brain.

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If the material/labour cost outweighs the selling price then I completely agree. But in this thread's case, it was a drop. Whether the undercutting guy sold it for 1.2 mil, 120k or 12 gil, it's still a profit. Was the seller oblivious of the worth of the item, maybe. Either way, profit is profit.

There's no "killing profit" in rare drops. Link between profit and loss only applies to crafted items.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

"Well, I may be getting 80% less than what it was initially worth, but at least my stuff sold." Congratulations you're homeless.

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1000x this.

What most people fail to understand is that the buyer for your goods is not going to find it immediately, but rest assured, they ARE coming, and if your item is at the lowest price when they seek it, they're going to buy it.

If an item sits on sale for 3 or so days and yet is the lowest price and STILL doesn't sell, sure, mark it down. Until that happens, the only thing you're doing by undercutting is ensuring the product will sell to someone looking for idiots who are selling things well below their cost to relist them for what it's actually worth.

Seriously, we have SALE HISTORIES for a reason...

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

What I find the most amusing is the amount of complaining that was going on around here with regards to housing prices. So many people don't have Gil but that's probably because so many undercutters don't seem to mind killing the price of anything worth selling as long as theirs sells first. "Well, I may be getting 80% less than what it was initially worth, but at least my stuff sold." Congratulations you're homeless.

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This makes zero sense at all. Because someone undercuts they have less money? The amount of gil in circulation doesnt change, it just gets spent on different things. I undercut all the time and I have plenty of gil. That is like saying walmart doesn't make any money because they are selling everything for 80% of what they could sell it for. I'd rather sell 2 at 80% then 1 at 100%. I don't care if my margins are less if I am selling much faster.