Easy question, I think.
I know with Two Monks, having Two Dragon Kicks is just lost dps. But what about Disembowel?
Should you continue to Disembowel if you have two Dragoons for the DOT of Chaos Thrust, or have one DRG keep Disembowel up while the other only worries about Heavy Thrust?
Dragoon - 2 Drg's
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10-06-2014, 08:52 AMSteadyDragoon - 2 Drg's
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10-06-2014, 09:12 AMChaozKYes, the extra dps you would gain from an additional TTT combo does not outweigh the loss of your Chaos Thrust dot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady
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10-06-2014, 11:36 AMSleigh
This is actually a potential problem in the future if they ever implement difficult 24 man raids - having more than one DRG is pretty pointless unless each party specifically has to attack different things.
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10-06-2014, 07:02 PMSteadyWell, if the above is correct, then Chaos Thrust DOT would always make it worth using, even if there's redundancy. Unless your disagreeing with ChaozK's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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10-06-2014, 09:16 PMLord_ZlatanThat doesn't really make sense: having 2 of the dot rotations ticking at the same time is definitely not a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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10-07-2014, 01:27 AMSygmaelleSince piercing damage begin to shine when you got 3 in a group I kinda doubt itQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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10-07-2014, 03:37 AMSleighNot a bad thing but there's no raid wide benefit to having more than one CT combo on the same boss. If let's say DRG brings 450 DPS by itself, and lets every additional BRD do 40~ more, that's pretty strong. That's a lot of contribution from having a DRG. Every DRG after the initial DRG is bringing just the 450 DPS a DRG does, which is junk compared to 500~ DPS MNKs, BLMs doing close to that with Foe's, BRDs doing 450 with less movement and being able to sing Foe's, SMNs doing 450+ with a whole slew of advantages DRG doesn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
I assume you're talking about BRD stacking with a DRG in the party. I think we're talking about different things; what I'm saying is, in a multi-party comp, after you get one Disembowel up, a DRG's natural DPS is on the low end after you consider Foe's Requiem, movement/dodging penalties, and just being less pure damage than MNK. It's normally balanced in 8 man parties somewhat (not considering stacking MNKs instead of taking a DRG), but when you've got 15 DPS attacking one boss like in ST, any more than one Disembowel going up is a waste and that DRG should be a MNK/BLM/SMN. More total DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sygmaelle
Disembowel = why you bring a DRG from a balance standpoint. Not a big deal yet but if there are ever organized 24 mans and nothing's different balance wise, people won't bring multiple DRGs unless the groups constantly attack different bosses. -
10-07-2014, 03:59 AMLeonus
What I just read was basically drg needs to be buffed.
Needs to be able to put out the same dps numbers as mnk and blm. That or if Nin also out dps' s drg, there is no real reason to play the class except for disembowel. -
10-07-2014, 11:03 PMLord_ZlatanWhat? DRG is ridiculous DPS if the player knows what they are doing... In no way shape or form do they need to be buffed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonus
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10-07-2014, 11:04 PMLord_ZlatanOK, we were talking abut different things. Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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10-07-2014, 11:20 PMNyneAlexander
having two drg is an automatic DPS loss because dead people can't dps. amirite!?!?
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10-07-2014, 11:22 PMHakmatic
Sleigh. you make no sense, stop putting numbers out there that are based on a tank and spank t8. Drg doesnt get outshined in any other turn. If you got monks / blms beating your drgs in fights like t9 well you are playing with shitty drgs. T6 is our fight cause its straight up burst 4 minute fight, blms do well here also. So stop acting like drgs are the worse. Id take 3 drgs that play like me over a mnk/smn/brd in any turn except t8.
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10-07-2014, 11:58 PMDanbo05I'd agree that they need a buff....in magic defense. My goodness they're fragile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
Dragoons should just be the beefy dps in the party if anything, imo. I don't see the reason for an increase in dps, just increase that paper thin magic defense. -
10-08-2014, 12:33 AMWarrlorddheeeeeeelarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneAlexander
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10-08-2014, 02:33 AMLord_ZlatanRight now, I don't really care. If you don't get hit, the MDEF doesn't matter. AoE cures and BB+Second wind are enough in most cases to top u off and stay healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbo05
When lancer gets a tank class, then its time to worry about MDEF.
And for the record, instead of just buffing it, they should get a CD that enhances MDEF so we have to time/use it accordingly -
10-08-2014, 08:27 AMSygmaelleNope, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonus
Sleigh I agree on a pure number point of view but Monks doin close to 470 - 490 in turn 6 are even rarer than goons doin 430+ in there. I know a couple of monks that manage to reach 460 - 490 in 6 and 8 and doin more than 400 in 7. But like, grand total on my server ? yeah 2 of them.
Could include myself for the third one but you get the idea, a dragoon that got a clue on how to play will do more dps average which is way more important than beein buffed here and then.
And like here there's 0 summoners doin 450+, same for blms. When a fight is over I mean, In combat dps yeah they do reach that. -
10-08-2014, 02:45 PMDanbo05You do realize that a base lv50 Carpenter has MORE magic defense than ilv 110 Dragoon...right? And its not even by a little...its by A LOT. Around a 150 difference I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
And there are some things you can't avoid getting hit by. Like, bolts in Ramuh EX. Or mines in T8 (if that's your job). Etc. -
10-08-2014, 02:51 PMSeraviEdalborezBecause all DpH/L armor just uses mage stats, which has high Mdef.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbo05
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10-08-2014, 02:53 PMDanbo05I was about to edit and throw in that an equally geared Bard or Monk also has about 100 more magic defense than Dragoons. That extra 100 in physical defense would be more useful being thrown into magic defense. There's also more magic damage dealing enemies endgame than physical damage enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez
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10-08-2014, 05:28 PMSygmaelle
Its for very very specific stuff other than that we re not to blame. Dragoons can tank lamias when shit goes wrong in turn 7, thanks to keen + bloodbath and your heals. And also can heal up themselves with bfb and bloodbath (and second wind on top if needed) while standin in shit on purpose.
So yeah we take more magic damage than anyone but its not really the end of the day ... -
10-08-2014, 07:16 PMatheniai dont agree with you in terms of blm. i CAN reach 430 dps in t8, with no selene, only one foe ( cause a heal died und he needed mp song), 110 weapon and no BiS gear. i wasnt even having insane procc luckQuote:
Originally Posted by Sygmaelle
oh and the fight went 9:20 and i did 2 towers. -
10-09-2014, 01:48 AMSygmaelle
Read me again ;) on EXODUS I know ONE blm reachin more than 430. One.
So, Sleigh disclaimer appear to be a bit exagerated. What he's sayin is not a rule of thumb, world is not only populated of exceptionnal dpsers -
10-09-2014, 12:05 PMziddytAnd I guess you know every single BLM on Exodus, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sygmaelle
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10-10-2014, 04:35 AMSygmaelleThe very serious ones ? I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziddyt
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10-10-2014, 04:50 AMziddyt
Oh I'm sure
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10-10-2014, 06:41 AMSygmaelle
Its not that hard when theres like not even 12 groups clearin turn 9, and 4 / 5 of them are in the same FC. Now go play with someone else