BLM AoE Rotation

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10-02-2014, 07:01 PM
NovaUltimatum

BLM AoE Rotation

Just wanted to check what people now use for the BLM AoE Rotation when Convert/Ethers are on cool down.

Is it most efficient to go:

Swiftcast available:
Fire3 -> multiple Fire2s -> Swiftcast -> Flare -> Transpose -> Blizzard2 -> Fire3 on full MP -> Etc

Swiftcast unavailable:
Fire3 -> multiple Fire2s -> Blizzard3 -> Blizzard2 -> Fire3 on full MP (repeat)
10-02-2014, 07:05 PM
Ceveth

Uh...
Think I have some bad news for you.
10-02-2014, 07:18 PM
SeraviEdalborez

F3 > F2 x2-3 > Flare > Transpose > [F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare > Transpose]

Repeat [brackets] until dead. Never B2 in a serious setting.
10-02-2014, 07:20 PM
NovaUltimatum

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Flare > Transpose > F3

This bit right here is what I'm curious in, how much MP are you waiting on before you do the F3. If you get slow/fast ticks is your response the same? Also, are you ever using swiftcast when available on this rotation?
10-02-2014, 07:21 PM
SeraviEdalborez

Mash it out. No need to wait for anything. You will have enough MP for the listed in brackets unless your speed is absurdly high (requires Selene).

You can use Swiftcast for a Flare if you want. Any Flare. Doesn't really matter.
10-02-2014, 07:25 PM
Artiste

You never use convert to do double flare guys ?

" when Convert/Ethers are on cool down. "

Ah, Didn't say anything :o
10-02-2014, 07:26 PM
SeraviEdalborez

"when Convert/Ethers are on cool down". As outlined in OP.

Also fairly straightforward what to do with Convert or ether-y things.

Convert: F1 > Flare (any PIE), F2 > Flare (250+ PIE), F1 > B3 (transition into single-target)
Hi-Ether: B3
Mega-Ether or higher: Flare
10-02-2014, 07:33 PM
NovaUltimatum

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

You will have enough MP for the listed in brackets unless your speed is absurdly high (requires Selene).

I'm going for Spell Speed builds so want to clarify this, especially as the speed is just going to get higher with gear progression. When you find there's not enough MP for the "[F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare > Transpose]" do you throw in any other spell or just wait?

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
10-02-2014, 07:33 PM
Artiste

Hi-Ether (or mega Ether, or I dont know, whatever) is more efficient for BLM then X-potion of intelligence ? (sorry if it's a stupid question, BLM is my second class, just begin with)
10-02-2014, 07:40 PM
SeraviEdalborez

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

When you find there's not enough MP for the "[F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare > Transpose]" do you throw in any other spell or just wait?

Wait for what? You're in fire, there's no more MP coming.

The magic number to be able to do F2 > Flare is 1116 mp. If you have less than this, skip to Flare (or do F2 > B3 or something). This is the same number you get from Convert when you have 250 PIE, incidentally. Just playtest it. It's really straightforward.

Transpose > F3 will have 2 UI1 ticks. If your speed is absurdly high (1039 I guess) you will not get the 2nd UI1 tick. You will sometimes not get it with Selene with lower speeds depending on tick luck but this is rare. Just improvise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artiste

Hi-Ether (or mega Ether, or I dont know, whatever) is more efficient for BLM then X-potion of intelligence ? (sorry if it's a stupid question, BLM is my second class, just begin with)

Situational. For DF dungeon trash with unpredictable DPS I would rather have another Flare than stronger Flares. Mega-Ethers are also generally cheap while INTpots are not. I use NQ X-Ethers just because I'm lazy but HQ Mega is ideal for Flares (lowest cooldown for the MP needed).
10-02-2014, 08:21 PM
Aurelle_Delacroix

Yeah, when convert and ethers are down its a straight forward sort of thing.

F3->F2-F2-F2->Swiftcast->Flare->Tranpose->Mash button for F3->F2->F2->Flare->Tranpose............rinse and repeat.
10-03-2014, 02:49 PM
Zencurse

Another voice to add to the chanting:
F3, F2 till low, Swiftcast, Flare, Convert, F2 (if you have a scholar and high enough piety, if not skip this), Flare, Ether of some sort, Flare if available.

Generally just

F3, F2 as much as you can (again as folks have said, 1 or 2 times usually), Flare, Transpose then get back to mashing the Fire III button

Its really inelegant and that down time waiting for the first mp tick before casting Fire III again goes against everything you've been taught as a caster dps (always be casting) but it really is the best way.
10-05-2014, 05:05 PM
chidarake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelle_Delacroix

Yeah, when convert and ethers are down its a straight forward sort of thing.

F3->F2-F2-F2->Swiftcast->Flare->Tranpose->Mash button for F3->F2->F2->Flare->Tranpose............rinse and repeat.

this totally.. never fails, but yeah sometimes after tranpose you have to keep mashing fire 3 because the mana tick is slow, other times its instant. blind luck on it,

if your mp isn't high enough you'll have to drop a 2nd f2 from the second set or even if you know there's a good chance you wont get flare off if you hit another fire 2.
10-07-2014, 03:38 AM
ShaolinMike

I like to hard cast the first flare and swiftcast the second. If you swiftcast the first, sometimes your target mob dies before you can get the second flare out, your cast gets interrupted, and you have to start over. If that happens on the second flare using swiftcast, you can immediately switch to a live target and get the flare casted immediately. .
10-08-2014, 04:39 AM
Zeny

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I like to hard cast the first flare and swiftcast the second. If you swiftcast the first, sometimes your target mob dies before you can get the second flare out, your cast gets interrupted, and you have to start over.

Yes, great advice.

For first rotation (all CDs) I do this:

F3 > Quelling Strikes+ F2x3 > Raging Strikes + Flare > Convert > F2 > Swiftcast + Flare > Mega Ether HQ > Flare

Transpose > F3 > F2 > Flare > Repeat

Usually after the triple flare mobs are dead though, heh.
10-08-2014, 02:37 PM
Zencurse

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I like to hard cast the first flare and swiftcast the second. If you swiftcast the first, sometimes your target mob dies before you can get the second flare out, your cast gets interrupted, and you have to start over. If that happens on the second flare using swiftcast, you can immediately switch to a live target and get the flare casted immediately. .

That's actually a very good point, listen to that.
10-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Uninstall

the real reason why you should swift the second flare is because you can transpose and start your mana regen phase during the off gcd of the flare.
10-09-2014, 03:27 AM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uninstall

the real reason why you should swift the second flare is because you can transpose and start your mana regen phase during the off gcd of the flare.

Wouldn't this kinda be the case whether you use swiftcast or not, since you can't transpose until the Flare cast is finished anyway?
10-09-2014, 03:29 AM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeny

Yes, great advice.

For first rotation (all CDs) I do this:

F3 > Quelling Strikes+ F2x3 > Raging Strikes + Flare > Convert > F2 > Swiftcast + Flare > Mega Ether HQ > Flare

Transpose > F3 > F2 > Flare > Repeat

For some reason, I never thought to throw a F2 in right after Convert. Good stuff.
10-09-2014, 04:32 AM
baopee

FIII - FII x2 or x3 - Flare - Transpose - (Cold downs) - swift cast - Flare - convert - (potions) - Flare - transpose - (FIII - FII x 2 or x3 - Flare) repeat
10-09-2014, 04:52 AM
NyneAlexander

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

For some reason, I never thought to throw a F2 in right after Convert. Good stuff.

Only works if you have 251(?) piety.
10-09-2014, 05:27 AM
Numenor1379

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Only works if you have 251(?) piety.

250 is the minimum.
10-09-2014, 06:21 AM
Umero

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I like to hard cast the first flare and swiftcast the second. If you swiftcast the first, sometimes your target mob dies before you can get the second flare out, your cast gets interrupted, and you have to start over. If that happens on the second flare using swiftcast, you can immediately switch to a live target and get the flare casted immediately. .

isn't it still better to swiftcast your first flare? As you stated, mob dies before you can get the second flare out, that's a good thing. It means they actually die faster lol
10-09-2014, 10:01 AM
Cynfael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umero

isn't it still better to swiftcast your first flare? As you stated, mob dies before you can get the second flare out, that's a good thing. It means they actually die faster lol

It's not as good if the mob you are using for target practice dies prematurely and interrupts your follow-up hard-cast Flare that would have finished everything else :P
10-09-2014, 11:52 PM
Uninstall

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Wouldn't this kinda be the case whether you use swiftcast or not, since you can't transpose until the Flare cast is finished anyway?

I can't believe I have to explain this simple concept. If you Swiftcast a spell, it happens at the start of a GCD instead of at the end.
10-10-2014, 03:14 AM
ShaolinMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uninstall

I can't believe I have to explain this simple concept. If you Swiftcast a spell, it happens at the start of a GCD instead of at the end.

I can't believe you felt the need to be condescending when I was only asking a question. I forgot that transpose is oGCD. My bad. :rolleyes:
10-10-2014, 07:18 AM
Zeny

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Only works if you have 251(?) piety.

Yep, and even for the "master race" the F2 after convert is situational. The rotation I stated is for an instance like Syrcus Tower, or Tam Tara HM with larger pulls at the start (since some monsters there are stoneskined, you can keep them as your main flare target longer). In cases like Brayflox HM, given the new gear levels and sometimes running with a WHM instead of a SCH - going directly into swiftcast + flare is the best option. You can probably finish off any low HP mobs with Freeze.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynfael

It's not as good if the mob you are using for target practice dies prematurely and interrupts your follow-up hard-cast Flare that would have finished everything else :P

This has been a challenge for me some pulls in Tam Tara HM since I run with a super hard hitting dragoon and warrior a lot of the time. I think people take for granted the amount of damage overpower + doom spike can do, while they've got limited TP the mobs usually don't last very long! One flare is enough some times.
10-20-2014, 12:07 AM
Aiyza

1. What would be the aoe rotation for a quick mob with just flares? Is it>

f3>qs+rs>flare>convert>swc>flare>pot>flare>transpose (tick)>repeat?

Also I know you guys said its 251 to add in the f2 in the aoe rotation, but I just want to know for clarification why are you adding in a f2 instead of just continuing with the flares? Thanks! :D

2. Also, can anyone answer me what you would do if you get a thundercloud proc right after you hardcasted t1 in umbral 3? Just use it? :)

3. And...>.< When they talk about fire weaving, do they mean for your last f1..you do f1>offgcd>f1>b3?

4. if you get a thundercloud proc right before or close to having to go into umbral3, do you use it before you go into umbral and still hardcast t1, or just continue with a b1 after b3 if you need it for tic and use the proc in umbral?

im low level blm so not sure if this stuff is different at 50 :o
10-20-2014, 11:40 AM
Zeny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiyza

1. What would be the aoe rotation for a quick mob with just flares? Is it>

2. Also, can anyone answer me what you would do if you get a thundercloud proc right after you hardcasted t1 in umbral 3? Just use it? :)

3. And...>.< When they talk about fire weaving, do they mean for your last f1..you do f1>offgcd>f1>b3?

4. if you get a thundercloud proc right before or close to having to go into umbral3, do you use it before you go into umbral and still hardcast t1, or just continue with a b1 after b3 if you need it for tic and use the proc in umbral?

1: For "quick" mob pulls, or a short life span expectancy, there's no "just flares" really. I don't actually use any cooldowns. F3 > F2 x3 > Flare > Transpose. They should be dead if they have low enough hp. If not, F3 after the Transpose into F2 x2 and flare again if necessary.

2: Depends on the tick. If you have already 1/2 mana after your t1 cast (1 tick) you should be able to hold onto that thundercloud until after your first fireball. Ideally try and save it for a fireweave, but honesty I would probably just lob a thunder 3 out right after the t1 in Umbral Ice 3.

3: F3 > F1 x5 > OGCD and check to see if you got the proc. So no what you stated is not the ideal scenario.

4: If you get a thundercloud on your final fire 1, prior to casting blizzard 3, use it to fireweave. If you get it as you are casting blizzard 3, or during your fireweave check, use it after your blizzard 3 and cast blizzard 1 to fill in if necessary. I wouldn't recast any thunders in that situation personally.
10-20-2014, 12:04 PM
Aiyza

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeny

snip

Thank you very much :D Appreciate it!!

For your rotation for high hp targets, do you use a spell like freeze or blizz2 after your transpose or just wait for mana tick and continue?
10-27-2014, 06:13 AM
Zeny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiyza

For your rotation for high hp targets, do you use a spell like freeze or blizz2 after your transpose or just wait for mana tick and continue?

If all my cooldowns are unavailable and I want to continue to AOE, I start casting F3 ASAP after I am Transposing out of a Flare. You should get to 25%/50% of your mana back depending on the tick. Use Fire 2 once or twice, then flare again. Transpose, repeat. The only appropriate time to use Blizzard 2 or Freeze is if the targets are nearly dead and you just Transposed.