"PS3 Limitations"

Please delete. People are right, pointless discussion.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

I'm starting to wonder how seriously PS3 is holding back the game's development.

It's getting concerning... I may be wrong as it's very hard to figure just how much or how little it affects things, but I can't tell!

I'm curious how much it'll hinder the Expansion or Golden Saucer?

In either case, my personal opinion is SE should cut support by end of Q2 2015 at the latest.

Discuss please.

SE, a response would be much appreciated as well!

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I know it was mentioned that they won't cut support until after the first expansion. I'll give it another whole year.

Bad enough for them to consider dropping support for the PS3.

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

Bad enough for them to consider dropping support for the PS3.

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You mean that they even bothered to release it on the PS3.
This game barely runs on that toaster, TBH.

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/up...dead-horse.gif

1. There are a significant amount of players who play on PS3 in Japan.

2. They will not be dropping PS3 support any time soon.

3. This game would not be "better" without PS3. This game would not exist without PS3, as a very large chunk of the revenue comes from PS3 subscriptions.

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

Bad enough for them to consider dropping support for the PS3.

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Not really. It's a very intelligent decision, currently it's still a financial benefit to continue support (but not forever).


The reason that support for the PS3 is VERY difficult to maintain is the memory restrictions imposed upon it.
I could go into extraneous detail on this (If anyone wants me to I can) but essentially;

The PS3 is old hardware, very-very old hardware by todays standards sporting a combined total of 512MB of memory to work with.

256MB System-Based RAM / 256MB GPU-Based RAM


"I'm not a nerd, what does that mean?"

Almost everything has to be 'housed' in memory, think of it like a brain.
Every time a 3D Model, Sound, Quest Test, Damage Calculations, Chat Log, Animations (etc.) is needed, it's housed in 'temporary-memory' where the game-recalls information stored on the drive to use in the game.

Memory is limited, you can only use what you have, and the PS3 doesn't have a lot of this. As a matter of fact, it doesn't really have enough to run the game technically, but the game has been beaten down to fit into this very small amount of memory, and as the game expands in the future it'll only become more and more difficult to maintain, which is why they want to drop support for it ASAP.

"Why does this matter?"

This is VERY restrictive, and has taken a lot of work for SE and Sony themselves to adjust and adapt these restrictions to work with an MMO client.
Most MMOs require and use up a monstrous amount of memory.

The reason they want to drop support, is that they can't expand on current systems in the game due to the limitations they've imposed on the UI, Level Design, Fight Designs, Gear-Designs.
Pretty much every aspect of the game is scrutinized as to whether it can be changed or adjusted to suit the PS3s memory limitations (as you can't leave the PS3 users out)


"Lots of other games do well with lots of stuff happening, like GTA V?"

These are completely different games, with completely different components and building blocks that make-up the game.

MMOs require almost double the memory of that of an average game. Considering each component on top of the UI (UI's eat up a fair bit)


"Well, I guess that makes sense, but I don't want to upgrade!!"

Enjoy not playing the game when they drop support then.

In all seriousness, it may be a hard-hit to those who simply can't purchase a PS3 or a PC capable of playing FFXIV, but the game will simply get stuck in a rut and restrict the development teams ambitions on expanding the game not just visually but also mechanically.


The enjoyment and maintenance of the vast majority will always be more important, especially on expanding game-content.
The PS3 is safe for at least another year, but if the number dwindle, they'll definitely consider it.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

3. This game would not be "better" without PS3. This game would not exist without PS3, as a very large chunk of the revenue comes from PS3 subscriptions.

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The development team disagrees and think it's holding the game back quite a lot as well as holding back implementing new systems.

As for dropping support it's only safe until the expansion.

Yoshi-P already stated the expansion was made with the PS3 in mind, and it would receive the first expansion for sure. The only way for the PS3's support to be dropped is when they look into how many people still use them to play, that's when they'll make a definitive decision after the expansion is released. I'm sure they'll take a look at how many PS3 users still exist, and if there is still enough worth justifying keeping up with content for the PS3 you can bet they'll keep it b/c more subs(even PS3 ones)=Profit for them.

If they drop PS3 support, then what would we blame everything on?

... nevermind, I guess we have "server limitations."

Unless the PS4 starts selling better in Japan, it will be a while before the PS3 gets dropped. Vita and 3DS outsell PS4, and its numbers have been shrinking. It was even outsold by Wii U for many weeks recently. (The only thing its beating in Japan is XB1, and Microsoft has never had any success in Japan).

I personally think end of 2015 is an unreasonable amount of time to continue support as the system is already quite outdated (PS4's been out quite a while now...) but perhaps that's just me.

Regardless, I think it's a worthy discussion.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

Unless the PS4 starts selling better in Japan, it will be a while before the PS3 gets dropped. Vita and 3DS outsell PS4, and its numbers have been shrinking. It was even outsold by Wii U for many weeks recently. (The only thing its beating in Japan is XB1, and Microsoft has never had any success in Japan).

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This is only due to a lack of games in japan and such but as TGS has shown by next summer i expect ps4 to start selling more

I don't know how long SE will support the PS3 version of this game, it is up to them to be honest. The fact that Yoshi-P admitted they are already having technical limitations on this game one year in worries me, period, regardless of what people play it on.

But I do know this:

Sony did say that they are standing by their claim of PS3 having a decade-long life cycle for the system. The System was released in Japan November 11th, 2006, and in the USA six days later. If they are running on the decade-long lifecycle, then the system itself only has roughly 2 years before that claim has run out. Now they did say if they could make it last longer they would, but they didn't know how much longer they would support it after the decade was up.

In the past:

The PS2 was released in 2000, and Sony stopped producing it in January of 2013 which is:

• A total of 13 years in production
• Lasting 3 years past the 'decade-long' life cycle they hope for their systems
• Running 7 years after the release of the PS3

So if Sony handles the PS3 as they did the PS2, we have at minimum 2 more years of production for the system, and perhaps as long as (if it last as long as the PS2) 5 years of production.

I guess SE would have to decide if they wanted to keep support the system for this game that long, or if they would continue to support it if Sony stopped making it.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If they drop PS3 support, then what would we blame everything on?

... nevermind, I guess we have "server limitations."

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Or "New players" limitations :3

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

You mean that they even bothered to release it on the PS3.
This game barely runs on that toaster, TBH.

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I beg to differ I play on ps3 and tho I to wish the support will get cut soon it runs fine for me. your comment is painfully invalid

Let's not forget we're talking a 2006 released console here. That's very, very old in hardware land.

I can't see them drop support any faster. I do think it limits their options to the point we don't get no where near SE's potential.

Unfortunately we have to look at this from SE's point of view. Profit = keep support. Can't and won't blame them for that. I just hope that when they drop it, we get surprisingly good patches/content. Let's hope they worked around the server limitations by then..

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Originally Posted by Toodles

I'm starting to wonder how seriously PS3 is holding back the game's development.

It's getting concerning... I may be wrong as it's very hard to figure just how much or how little it affects things, but I can't tell!

I'm curious how much it'll hinder the Expansion or Golden Saucer?

In either case, my personal opinion is SE should cut support by end of Q2 2015 at the latest.

Discuss please.

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Or, you could discuss it one of the billion pre-existing thread rather than wanting to feel special creating your own.

There's not much to discuss. No one knows what these limitations are, so everyone's quick to blame the PS3 for everything and shout that the sky is falling (as with every other aspect of this game, apparently).

Whaaatever. Instead, I wonder what will those people blame when they do drop support for PS3....

I suppose I still don't completely understand why the PS3's client has to hold back the PS4 or the PC client. There is no reason all platforms have to have identical clients.

Edit:

Nvm realized someone just has special snowflake syndrome

So until then can we blame Japanese players for holding back the game by not upgrading to ps4/pc?

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

I suppose I still don't completely understand why the PS3's client has to hold back the PS4 or the PC client. There is no reason all platforms have to have identical clients.

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They do have to unfortunately, to keep development time manageable and all platforms in sync - which is important considering the game is cross platform. Because of this, content is designed so that it will run on the lowest spec system they support (ie PS3). They can't very well have content that won't run a supported platform after all.

Also, I agree they should dump PS3 support asap. Japanese players on PS3 don't get a PS4 because they don't have to while the platform is still supported - cut support and you'll see a nice bump in PS4 sales.

EDIT: I was thinking I should add that when they do decide to sever support for PS3 it isn't like they'll announce it on the day. They'll give plenty of warning.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

I suppose I still don't completely understand why the PS3's client has to hold back the PS4 or the PC client. There is no reason all platforms have to have identical clients.

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There is.

Content has to be avaliable on all of the platforms. It's not only a development nightmare to have to develop them seperatley but also infuriates players when "Why can I enter these new bigger areas on my PS3??", "Why can I have this new system that requires more UI memory, because I'm on PS3???", "Why can't I take part in [x,y,z]".

Until support is dropped, everything must remain equal in terms of content.

PC players still downing on Console gamers

Final Fantasy XI still supports PS2
Buckle in PC players PS3 is here to stay

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

PC players still downing on Console gamers

Final Fantasy XI still supports PS2
Buckle in PC players PS3 is here to stay

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Then a game with incredible potential will be forever crippled.

My PHONE has better hardware than the ps3, let that sink in

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

PC players still downing on Console gamers

Final Fantasy XI still supports PS2
Buckle in PC players PS3 is here to stay

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PS2 limitations are what held FFXI back from reaching it's full potential. The development team has already stated that they most certainly will drop PS3 when it's limitations begin to interfere with development.

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Originally Posted by Toodles

I personally think end of 2015 is an unreasonable amount of time to continue support as the system is already quite outdated (PS4's been out quite a while now...) but perhaps that's just me.

Regardless, I think it's a worthy discussion.

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With the PS4 barely selling in Japan, I'd think we're rather looking at late 2016 or somewhere 2017 before SE to drop support for the PS3. Their JP market is huge, and the fraction of them which play PS3 is big. They're not just going to drop support for them.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Then a game with incredible potential will be forever crippled.

My PHONE has better hardware than the ps3, let that sink in

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dosnt mean your phone can play it.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

PS2 limitations are what held FFXI back from reaching it's full potential. The development team has already stated that they most certainly will drop PS3 when it's limitations begin to interfere with development.

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Yoshi already said that the PS3 would be supported for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

Yoshi already said that the PS3 would be supported for the foreseeable future.

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He also said he wouldn't let the game be held back by hardware limitations like FFXI was. However, I do think killing off the PS3 until it just can't hack it would be a wise decision right now. That would greatly upset the fan base if done too early. That being said, the flipside is also true. It must be done before it really kills the game in terms of limitations.

So Yoshi says a lot of things.

we do forget another point that is not very good, the ps3 use a program language totally different of the other support.
the ps4 are easier to program, i can't imagine the time and energy they will save the day they will drop the ps3 support.

people are there complaining about the fact that ps3 must'nt be dropped, we are into a mmorpg, one of the game type the most demanding on our machine... and only in the last 4 years the technology did amazing advance, if you only look at the video card and ram, it's like day and night.

i think Yoshida already want to drop the support, but like some have said, he will hold until a bit more of ps4 user will be in japan. don't forget that they already offer the free transfert and the game for free if you own already the ps3 i dunno any other company that did make this for any other game.

I believe they will drop the PS3 support, but it is still too soon to do that.
Winter 2015 seems ok.

How is the ps3 holding the game back?

XI zones are ten times larger and it has open world dungeons.
Why do people still blame ps3 limitations when clearly xiv is not using the full potential of even the ps3.

The trouble with XIV is that the community accepts these cop out excuses from the dev team every time.

If you want progress then demand SE to beef up the servers because they could easily afford it if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

Yoshi already said that the PS3 would be supported for the foreseeable future.

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He said that the first expansion would support PS3. He followed that by saying that PS3 support will be dropped when it begins to hinder the development process.

I'm in no hurry to see it go, though. I don't play on PS3, so as long as it doesn't effect the content that I receive on PC, I don't see why it would bother me that it's still being supported. I just don't want to see the same major flaw with FFXI get repeated here. When you have to start limiting content because you have to make it run on ancient hardware, it really begins to damage the game overall.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

He said that the first expansion would support PS3. He followed that by saying that PS3 support will be dropped when it begins to hinder the development process.

I'm in no hurry to see it go, though. I don't play on PS3, so as long as it doesn't effect the content that I receive on PC, I don't see why it would bother me that it's still being supported. I just don't want to see the same major flaw with FFXI get repeated here. When you have to start limiting content because you have to make it run on ancient hardware, it really begins to damage the game overall.

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So when they say that they can't implement something due to limitations or restrictions (like housing), is the game really approaching it's limit before we even get to 3.0?

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

So when they say that they can't implement something due to limitations or restrictions (like housing), is the game really approaching it's limit before we even get to 3.0?

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Housing restrictions were a result of server limitations, not PS3 limitations. That will be solved in 2.4 as well.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Housing restrictions were a result of server limitations, not PS3 limitations. That will be solved in 2.4 as well.

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Doubtful considering the number of players we have versus just how much they're adding (which doesn't really "solve" the limited housing persay). But I'll go with the server limitations thing. Some of the content they've added back in 2.3 is pushing stress onto the PS3 players though, such as the hunts. I feel that's a big limiter with what they can do and can't do with open-world content that encourages mass participation.

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Originally Posted by Cyrusskorrey

dosnt mean your phone can play it.

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http://thesologuild.com/play-ffxiv-f...-mobile-phone/

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

So Yoshi says a lot of things.

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^^ lol this guy here is the only one who truly understands SE's thought process in this whole thread. :P

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

^^ lol this guy here is the only one who truly understands SE's thought process in this whole thread. :P

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Half expecting him to announce on the day of the expansion release that there would be no PS3 support.

Just like FFXI :D

PS2 is holding that game back

PS3 is holding this game back!