Challenging But Rewarding Jobs (discussion)

This isnt an outright "Petition" thread, asking or demanding we get said job because our current jobs are easy.

Our current mindset that X Job is easy is because we have been playing the same job for around 1 year. We have learned our rotations, roles, enemy weaknesses, optimal playstyle, ect.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with something a little... harder to use, but in a game where we move in all directions, and we are confined in the " RPG Holy Trinity", how will we have a different job when in the end the role will be the same?

Of course, this isnt a discussion which role is harder, cause each job has each their own strenght and weaknesses which composes a party, but rather what job can bring something new to the table, a more tactical challenge to the player and keep things interesting. Ninja being an example.

It has been said that ROG/NIN's DoTs will work differently than what we are accustomed to, and the hand signs makes us assume that you can do a variety of moves depending on your rotation. We have yet to see if this is true. This sounds challenging but not because of its playstyle but because its new.

We dont know if SE will add new jobs that branch off from other classes (Arcanist > Summoner/Scholar being an example) or that we will have "Advanced Jobs" that are unlocked by branching off current jobs as prerequisites like (Paladin/Black Mage > Mystic Knight) or (Warrior/Monk > Berserker). Theyre trying to cater more to the beginners of MMOs rather than the veterans and while Im more on the latter, im fine with it, the game only's gone past 1 year of its 10 year lifespan (as guessed by Yoshi-P). Im sure sooner or later we will see variety spark up in the upcoming years, we got plenty of material to work with.

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Originally Posted by ArkAurelius

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Balance is a big factor you have to take into this and each situation is harder/easier on a job. Making a job more complex for the hell of it knocks the balance off. Game is designed for a class/job to be simple to learn in order to balance out with the mechanics of the fight itself. Its not a good idea to make a job that is designed to work harder on the back end than what is going on itself. Even then, it is challenging enough to be most efficient at your rotation and dealing with the mechanics of the fight at the same time.

SE may have issues in other areas, but their design philosophy on simplicity of jobs is solid to me.

I'm confused. You want more challenging to play class? The only 50 you have is a paladin. Go play a Scholar.

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Originally Posted by zar

I'm confused. You want more challenging to play class? The only 50 you have is a paladin. Go level and play a Scholar.

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I dont want to play another class, im happy with PLD, ty.

I SAID that people ask for harder to use jobs because the ones we have are so easy and im argumenting that theyre easy cause we've been playing more or less the same thing for a year.

Its a discussion, read first before blindly assuming.

Arguing?

That aside, I don't know what you are trying to say, either. I agree that many of the jobs we have now are rather bland, but the last thing we want to do is encourage SE to take Blizzard's approach and radically redesign every single class, every single xpac.

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Originally Posted by ArkAurelius

I dont want to play another class, im happy with PLD, ty.

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I think the point he's trying to make: how do you know all the jobs are easy when you've played only one?

Also, don't forget that "difficulty" is completely subjective. Not everyone has the same reflex speed, finger dexterity, or even just patience to play a job as efficiently as others (and as a tank in particular you should know that patience is too a required skill to manage to play without being overwhelmed with stress).

I, for once, can't for the life of me get used to the hotbars, even after a year. I'd love the option to have the good old battle menu from FFI-XII.

The fact that the game's content has been repeatedly received battle nerfs to bosses and dungeons makes me think that there is already enough of a challenge as it is.

Being new to a job doesn't make it difficult, the time spent learning it also isn't what makes it difficult.
Complexity comes from the mechanics of the job. How do you perform your combos? Are there any decisions that need to be made on the fly? Is positioning required? etc.

Personally, I expected future DD roles to have a case of returns = effort with career players that put time into doing this and that for their classes generally better than someone that's only on it every now and again and can't/won't get optional things for it (other than just gear.) After Yoshida's recent comments regarding blue mage, it's stuck in my mind now that something of that type won't happen. Every DD shall be created equal, etc.

I'm likely the minority on this (and I understand why) but I'll admit that I am sort of disappointed about that. Personally, my mains in XI were BLU (returns dependant on player skill, gear, player knowledge, and time put into getting spells) PUP (returns dependant on gear, time put into levelling the automaton independently, and automaton parts player has access to) WHM (usual, though I geared whm for melee and could outparse most DPS on it. That involved player skill, and gear.) and those sorts of roles where you can experiment and do things a little differently for incredible returns appeal to me, so I am kind of disappointed. I always knew XIV was to be a casual MMO, but I didn't think that casual meant bare-bones when it came to roles.

We'll likely just have to wait and see when it comes to future roles, Either Yoshida's team are going to come out with roles unlike anything we've ever seen (which can still adhere to DF 2 tank, 2 healer, 4 DPS requirements) or they're just going to give us WHM again, SCH again, PLD again, and WAR again throughout the duration of the game.

Just go make a drg and come back and reply here xd

lack of options if the main issue i have with jobs , and ways to improve and do better.

Melees can squeeze more uptime once they know the boss mechanics, but after that is just matter of ABC ABC ABC

thats why i hope nin brings options (ninjutsu spells) but i guess ninja will cast X for single target , Y for aoe and thats it. so all the options that mudras could bring will be just illusions,and a way to let u do handsings and feel like a ninja that knows wth is doing.....but it will be mudra 1 2 3 for lighting single target , 312 for fire on aoe ..../sigh

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Originally Posted by zar

I'm confused. You want more challenging to play class? The only 50 you have is a paladin. Go play a Scholar.

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Scholar is actually pretty easy, if you don't use Selene.

OP should try using an i85 Paladin against i100+ Players in expert roulette and keep aggro every second of the way, and never lose it once to a BLM who won't use quelling strikes.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Scholar is actually pretty easy, if you don't use Selene.

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Any class is easy if all you're doing is 4man dungeons and Crystal Tower.

A challenge is doing Mog EX as a summoner. Make sure your DoT ticks don't accidentally kill a Moogle early. Bonus points if you've reached some percentage of Echo and have to adjust further.