Dat Ninja stuff, again.

Here's my latest thoughts on the subject :)

There's no paradox.

Currently in 2.38, lower limsa has been extended, there's a new area outside fishermans horizon. I'm guessing maybe Doman refugees will live there? it doesn't really matter, the point is, anyone who started playing in 2.38, can go there and see it.
Current progression of *the game* is 2.38, and that's the progression for everyone, regardless of when you started playing, or how far you got into the story.
Anyone that starts playing in 2.4, will be able to go and talk to Yugiri, because she arrived in 2.2? Even if you didn't progress that far in the story, doesn't matter...she's still there, because that's the progression of the game.
As you make your way through the story, you're basically just reliving the past, while living in the 2.4 world.
I'll just use this as an example.
https://41.media.tumblr.com/83a2d63b...r2w4o1_500.png

"Every story has a beginning, middle and end. Not necessarily in that order."

-Tim Burton

Frankenweenie-2012

Corpse Bride-2005

Nightmare Before Christmas-1993

"Not necessarily in that order"

So just because you haven't met Yugiri through the main story, doesn't mean you can't meet her...because, again, in 2.4 the world progression is 2.4.
I know a lot of ppl got an issue with: oh so i can be Ninja, and talk to Yugiri, before Ninjas become available.
Well here's me as a DRG, doing WHM job quest...
http://s13.postimg.org/mm6zk1kpf/ffx...014_125254.jpg
Point is: your class/job/lv has zero relevance to the main story.
You can re-watch any cutscene as whatever you want, and it makes no difference.
I can go cap Nin, when it comes, and go watch the Yugiri cutscenes, as Ninja, it makes no difference. It's just a flashback.
Your character is just there, as whatever you've equipped it with. It's not your equipment/job-stone, that dictates the story.
You're just re-living the moment where you met Yugiri, in a 2.4 progressed *world* A world where Yugiri is there, regardless of your personal story progression.
If you're Ninja, and haven't seen her in story-quest, yet, well it's just the missing pieces being filled in, some background story. Like in the Tim Burton example.
And again, your class/job/lv, has zero relevance to the story, your character is always just a piece of vanity, in the cutscenes; you never do anything in the cutscenes, for that very reason. All you do is make emotes, and sheathe/unsheathe your wep/tool.
So as you progress through the story, you're always classless/jobless/leveless (is that even a word?) so don't get stuck up on being Nin, in a cutscene, cause you're not/won't be. And if it bothers you, don't do the main story, as Rog/Nin; RP, and use *your own character* that makes sense to you.

I guess it does make sense.

Did they not confirm that rogue isn't available as a starting class and you'd need at least a level 10 class to switch over to it?

If you took Arcanist to 50 before fighting Ifrit in the story, you could not do the quest for Summon III, or Summoner in general.

If you take Rogue to 30 before doing 2.2, you likewise probably wont be able to do the quest for Ninja. At least in my opinion.

You cannot start a character as Rogue - You have to find their Guild, which was recently described as being similar to XIs Tenshodo; access to which was eventually required for progression, at which point they handed you an invite, you could however join up before that by finding it.

Quest dialogue for 2.2 can be altered based on whether you have found the Rogue Guild or not; If you have there is new dialogue with you and Thancred introducing Yugiri to them, rather than Thancred being the only one knowing them. If you haven't, you get what we currently had, with the quest basically pointing you in their direction as well as Yugiri.

Quest dialogue is already altered based on a number of factors; Legacy account and Jobs being the primary ones - Doing the quest for Lost City access will provide different dialogue based on whether or not you have completed the White Mage quests or not.

World progress is a iffy thing. Mor Dhona has changed, sure, but NPCs haven't. If you have not completed 2.3s main quests, Rowena and various NPCs around Mor Dhona do not comment on the formation of the Crystal Braves. Likewise, if you have not done the quests, Crystal Braves officers aren't in all the city-states. If you haven't done 2.2s quests, Doma refugees are not around the place. If you haven't do any of the 2.1 content the Scions are still located at their original base rather than Mor Dhona. The world doesn't progress entirely with the patch number, for the most part it's based on where you are in the main scenario.

It isn't a simple matter of "It's patch 2.4, so the world is in 2.4", if you haven't touched 2.2 there are no Domans in Eorzea, even if there are on other peoples screens. On the new players screen, they don't exist. Mor Dhona has just been built up by the Adventurer's Guild, and after 2.2 they get a helping hand from refugees and some Domans pop up around the place, like we all currently see.

People might see requiring 2.2 completed to unlock Ninja as unfair, but honestly, those same people will probably complain about needing an expansion to get the expansions Jobs, and claim they're Pay 2 Win. Having requirements for content is a good thing, it fleshes out the world and makes it seem more alive, dropping such things for player convenience has the opposite effect. Just look at the Duty Finder; that is solely their for player convenience and it makes the world feel utterly dead and disconnected. Yes it's convenient not to have to head to Camp Tranquil every time you want to enter The Lost City, but as a result all the dungeons in this game don't feel like they're part of the world at all.

she might not be there though. i remember a couple updates ago they made it so that NPCs dialogue changed depending on your progress in the game. It's possible they will make her invisible until players actually reach that part of the game. Also, Spoilers.

Yeah OP's argument is wrong. New players still go to The Walking Sands, even if the Scion' s HQ has been at Mor Dhona for the last couple of patches. I think what will happen is what Nalien said, since you can't "main" rogue.

The world is pretty much locked in 2.0 when you think about why Imperials are still around. After 2.0 we've crushed their headquarters and killed their leadership, yet all the Castrums remain as they were before that. Was Nero keeping everything running? Based on what he said in recent cutscenes, not likely, and now he is disposed of anyway. According to Yugiri the Empire is in a war of succession, so I really doubt the Castrums are getting anything in the way of support from their homeland, if anything they should be falling back - But they're not, because the world is locked in 2.0 because new players need those Castrums remaining for story and other content (Hunting Log).

Had the game moved on from 2.0, we'd have removed all Imperials from Eorzea by now. The Grand Companies aren't fighting each other, Frontlines made the point very clear that they're having us fight instead so they don't have to. So yeah, the Imperials should have been removed by now, and there hasn't really been much of an explanation as to why they're still here. Perhaps 3.0 will drop the 2.0 storyline and how new players starting with a different series of quests, and the world/hunting log/etc will all be updated to reflect the changed world, and Yugiri could technically have been here for a while and Ninja can be unlocked right away. If we eventually get to an expansion where we take on the Imperials in their homeland, and Castrum Centri is still standing, that would be fairly odd.

OP I suggest you look up phasing and how it works as a lot of this game's story content is phased.

Characters that a player has not encountered yet, such as Yugiri, are not visible to them. The game shows the world in a state that reflects their progress in the story. As others have mentioned above there are huge swathes of NPCs and other things that are invisible to a new player until they actually reach that point in the story. The same will apply to Yugiri with regards to the NIN job quests. Living Ninjas do not exist in Eorzea prior to Yugiri's arrival and her promise to train us. That means any NIN trainer would be phased out and invisible to a new player that has not completed the 2.2 story quests.

Not that it matters to any of us since we can all access NIN regardless of if it is gated behind 2.2 or not, but how do we know ninjas aren't in Eorzea prior to 2.2? As far as Yugiri knows, they aren't...but does she know every single Doman alive that may have somehow escaped to/infiltrated/immigrated to Eorzea? I'm sure she has too much to deal with to keep track of every single ninja from her land. Maybe one or more slipped through without her knowledge and formed a clan secretly in Eorzea? So maybe they can exist prior to 2.2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nalien

The world is pretty much locked in 2.0 when you think about why Imperials are still around. After 2.0 we've crushed their headquarters and killed their leadership, yet all the Castrums remain as they were before that. Was Nero keeping everything running? Based on what he said in recent cutscenes, not likely, and now he is disposed of anyway. According to Yugiri the Empire is in a war of succession, so I really doubt the Castrums are getting anything in the way of support from their homeland, if anything they should be falling back - But they're not, because the world is locked in 2.0 because new players need those Castrums remaining for story and other content (Hunting Log).

Had the game moved on from 2.0, we'd have removed all Imperials from Eorzea by now. The Grand Companies aren't fighting each other, Frontlines made the point very clear that they're having us fight instead so they don't have to. So yeah, the Imperials should have been removed by now, and there hasn't really been much of an explanation as to why they're still here. Perhaps 3.0 will drop the 2.0 storyline and how new players starting with a different series of quests, and the world/hunting log/etc will all be updated to reflect the changed world, and Yugiri could technically have been here for a while and Ninja can be unlocked right away. If we eventually get to an expansion where we take on the Imperials in their homeland, and Castrum Centri is still standing, that would be fairly odd.

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they cant just remove half of the game content, cause they are adding new :)
they need to keep the old content, so new ppl can do it, and re-do it. Ultima HM for example, is just an exaggerated fight, that the Minstrel made up; so there's the option to *relive* old content.
story-wise, there hasn't been anything new about imperials, in a while.
It's far more likely that they will make Yugiri available to new ppl, than trashing all castrums.
Yugiri also said that the the empire wasn't exactly slacking off, because of the succession; it's not like they are sitting by idly, doing nothing, and letting their castrums rot. Yugiris fleet didn't come to Eorzea, for fun.
They obviously haven't dropped their plans to conquer Eorzea. It's just on hold for now. We'll see what happens about it in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If you took Arcanist to 50 before fighting Ifrit in the story, you could not do the quest for Summon III, or Summoner in general.

If you take Rogue to 30 before doing 2.2, you likewise probably wont be able to do the quest for Ninja. At least in my opinion.

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well, lv doesn't have anything to do with the story, so whatever lv you are, has no relevance, as i said in my post. So i wouldn't use that as an argument to lock Nin. Purpusly NOT going through story, and being locked out, is kinda different :p
If you got rogue as main, you'll be lv 50 before you get to that part anyway, and it would be....really dumb, to go through all of that as rogue, and not being able to become Ninja; just seems like unnecessary restriction.
As others said, yah, some NPCs arent visable, and such, but you can *fix the paradox* as i described. You don't need to disregard the concept, because it's inappropriate in some cases, such as Scions being situated in both West Thanalan, and Mor Dhona.
It would be rather confusing to new ppl, if both of them were open, so for that sake, they are locking the doors in Dhona. But it needn't apply in case of Yugiri, there's a reason for her to appear, and considering 2.4 progression, she's in Eorzea, so there's no reason to lock her away because new ppl haven't gone through the story yet.
So i'm thinking they are kinda doing one or the other, where appropriate. And in case of Nin, i feel it's appropriate to have her there for new ppl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radacci

They obviously haven't dropped their plans to conquer Eorzea.

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Actually, they have. They dropped their plans for Eorzea after the Calamity; Gaius was working alone, which makes it an even bigger plot hole. In one of the cutscenes I believe he even out right states that they're not getting support from the homeland.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Actually, they have. They dropped their plans for Eorzea after the Calamity; Gaius was working alone, which makes it an even bigger plot hole. In one of the cutscenes I believe he even out right states that they're not getting support from the homeland.

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Hm, i guess you're right :)
They should leave some gunblades before they dump the castrums.