So, for the most part 1.18 is pretty nice.
I'm happy with the battle system changes. The enmity system is... yeah... workable and actually takes skill... Which is good!!
I am very happy to see it's actually a challenge now.
But the thing that troubles me is the dungeon re-entry time...
Why 5 minutes? Why would you want people just entering opening the first 3 chests (which have some of the best items) and leaving?
Also being able to go 5, 6, 7 times in a row winning? A week into the update and pretty much everyone in my LS has everything.
Of course the strategies being posted do not help but... If the re-entry time was once a day people would just be figuring out how to beat the Orge maybe? I don't know.
At this rate most people able to complete the dungeon will have pretty much all the need from Darkhold fairly soon if they don't already because it is so often repeatable.
This is fine for right now but I want to know is this going to be the standard for instanced fights like this in the future...?
What ever happened to 72~ re-enter times like FFXI Dynamis or Limbus? ... Salvage or Assault tags, etc?
It made loot rare and feel like an accomplishment.
I know SE wants people to see what they've done and enjoy the new content but what happens when everyone gets what they want? Will it just sit there like the new~ish "mid-level" NMs... And the NMs from the Dec update.... And FNMs now because most of the gear from darkhold makes them obsolete? Hmm...
Call me crazy but wouldn't you think it would be best to make rare items to keep people busy because there isn't that much content right now...?
So... Dungeon Re-enter Time
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08-03-2011, 07:13 PMVischSo... Dungeon Re-enter Time
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08-03-2011, 07:44 PMOscillate_Wildly
Once a day would be TORTURE particularly with how easy it is to fuck up on the ogre battle or even a full wipe in the corridors.
15 minutes would be more realistic.
inb4 "this isn't XI, no one plays like that anymore", I kind of agree. This game is leaning more to the 'casual' player base which isn't being balanced well at all at the moment. In the future I'd love for more Dynamis and Limbus styled instances, but instead of unreasonable timers I'd love for them to have higher pre-reqs like currency or item drops.
Similar to Maat fights, needing scrolls to get in. Something like that, which causes a party to farm required materials to be able to enter. In the future, for more hardcore instances, I'd like to see something like that make a resurgence. -
08-03-2011, 09:03 PMFated
FFXI's massive reentry timers coupled with obscenely low drop rates made a vast minority of the gaming population feel rewarded while the rest felt frustrated (I say this from the perspective of someone who actually did get just about everything for my jobs but watched as many, many others never did even though they were dedicated). You should never have to replay the same old content for 2+ years to gain a single drop.
That being said, I think there should at least be some kind of consumable entry requirement for content. It can act as a gil sink (Dynamis) which is something this game sorely needs anyway. -
08-03-2011, 09:08 PMChardrizardYeah, i am going to call you crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
When you impose cooldown on dungeon, you wouldn't be able to help your friends, you are going to stick through only the same group, there will be people that are being left out, pick up parties will rarely happen because people doesnt' want to fuck up their once per day chance to enter. I can keep going, but this should be enough on why cooldown is not good.
Cooldown might be good for BIG SCALE content, not for 8man content. -
08-03-2011, 09:10 PMyukikaze_yanagi
Farming triggers is a reasonable condition, until it come down like sky farm or a competition for mob camps. Anyhow, 24 hour lock it's a foolish thing since the difficulty: the ogre it's a prohibitive fight for the unskilled or new 50, batraal even worst. wiping after 5 minutes and then been locked out for a day isn't exacly cool
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08-03-2011, 09:17 PMArchadius
No to cooldown timers.
Yes to consumable entry requirements or other creative form. -
08-04-2011, 06:51 AMVisch
Ok well, have fun quitting after every update because there is nothing to do LOL
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08-04-2011, 08:17 AMVydarrTyr
Respectfully, if you're worried that you're going to get tired of the content too quickly, then don't run it 10 times a day. I'm still having fun. Just because you might play until you're sick of it doesn't mean that SE should stop me from playing.
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08-04-2011, 08:41 AMKiara
Hi Visch,
As a fan of the original Dynamis-Xarcabard, I'd normally agree with you, but in this case, I think the 5 minute lockout is fair for a variety of reasons:
* Connection Lost: I've had many LS mates / friends who've d/c'd in the middle of this dungeon. Can you imagine the frustration if they had to wait 72 HOURS to retry it again?
* New Class / Combat System / Job System Coming: Patch 1.18 introduced some dramatic changes to Core Combat. It's been a learning curve for many players (as can be seen by the number of topics on a variety of issues). Guildleves and the old FF XIV didn't really challenge or help make good players. Dzemael Darkhold is helping to rectify that. ;)
So with this tough dungeon and major changes to Combat / Classes, I think it's good to have a 5 Minute only lockout. It lets people try and try again if they want to, and get used to the new systems (and they're still not done yet with all the changes).
* Fun. When you want it. :) Even a week+ after the Dungeons have been out, I'm still having a blast running through there every day. Sure, the hardest of the hardcore are already done (they've gotten all drops), but it's still fun for many, and with it being the only new (but well produced) content, with the high rank FF XIV population desperate for *something* to do besides Guildleves, I think it's a good thing for now.
In the future, I'd agree: When we have more Raid Dungeons, more avenues to explore, adventures, quests, more things to do, then having some of the bigger challenges be on a more restrictive lockout to help build up Rarity is a good thing.
But for now, this has been great for this first Dungeon. :) -
08-04-2011, 08:46 AMVischIf people can do it they will do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VydarrTyr
It doesn't really matter what I personally want, it's the fact that the game is lacking content and having something you can do over and over with no cool down doesn't bring any longevity to the experience lol. -
08-04-2011, 09:30 AMBlack_Rose
do we allways need the devs to tell us how often we can enter whatever instance/dungeon/raid?
i didn't enter the rank 45 dungeon once yet, and i'm in no rush to do so.
the good between content you can access at anytime and content that has cool downs to access it, is that when you feel like doing something you won't be blocked to do so.
people that enter dungeons solely for the reasson to hunt gear should do so if the feel like it, it just requires a few clicks and SE could make you run the dungeon 100 times without a single drop.
that's about the same level of achievment as dynamis.
just that dynamis had a cool down of 72 hrs, and it took that damn xarcabard zone exactly 1 year and 4 months to drop my damn THF af gloves.
everyone has his own imagination of fun, yet what's fun for some shouldn't destroy what's fun for others.
if you feel like you need a 3 day cool down, then stop entering nonstop and take a break for once.
i guess if you want to enjoy your cake you shouldn't eat the damn whole thing in one go. -
08-04-2011, 09:43 AMBoltNixter
i would love if they removed the 60min timer inside, why cant we enjoy the area instead of rushing it? And the "lose aggro" barriers are very stupid.
I've had fun the first 2 times, after that its redundant and boring. Im one of the player that dont play for loot. Of course i like being well geared. But running the same dungeon over and over a la WoW for gear, makes me wanna pull my eyes out! (☼_☼) -
08-04-2011, 09:56 AMMariyaShidou
Putting a limit on how many times you can enter the dungeon in a day/week/month/year is not the way to go, at all. Isn't it just like a harsher fatigue system that many people don't like and getting abolished in 1.19? Not to mention the drop rate of the chests are horrible (at least for me, haven't got any pieces I wanted after several run, they all have to drop when I'm not there).
And the first three chests are best? Boots, Boots, Mage body is the best? -
08-04-2011, 10:11 AMDoctorMog
Are you REALLY complaining about...
5 minutes....
Dear Lord.
Humanity is SCREWED in another generation or two.
Who cares if everyone gets two pairs of boots and a mage body?
Doesn't mean squat in the end. -
08-04-2011, 10:16 AMCorrderio
Sorry Mog, humanity is already screwed.
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08-04-2011, 10:36 AMDoctorMogI blame the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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08-04-2011, 10:40 AMCorrderio....secondQuote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMog
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08-04-2011, 10:52 AMVischWOW LOL!!! I guess you don't understand the point of it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltNixter
Yes it does. It means I got nothing to do until the next update.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMog
Thanks for babystepping everyone through the dungeon btw! -
08-04-2011, 10:59 AMNeptuneI'm not sure you're going to find what you're looking for here..Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
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08-04-2011, 11:01 AMVischFrom people who use this forum? Probably not cuz they want WoW lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune
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08-04-2011, 11:04 AMDoctorMogYou're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
I figured everyone deserves a chance at the content. -
08-04-2011, 11:13 AMCorrderioNow if people would quit with the ARC only crap :PQuote:
Originally Posted by DoctorMog
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08-04-2011, 01:53 PMAnonymoose
I'm getting kind of bored with all of these threads claiming that content without time-sinks will cause people to run out of things to do. That's absolutely asinine. If you don't find the game fun enough to play once you have the nice items you want, why are you playing it at all? There's plenty to ways to kill time after you've pimped out your job.
It's not "casual" to not have to sit around doing f**k all for no other reason than postponing the next time you quit a little longer; I'm relieved you're not a game designer. -
08-04-2011, 03:50 PMTrigger
I think raids were mainly implemented for leveling, the gears inside is just a bonus. I mean you have an hour of playing nonstop, then a five minute cooldown. Too me that cooldown suggests that SE wanted people to use that time for going afk for whatever reason before entering again to continue exping.
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08-04-2011, 04:17 PMNabiriI'm unsure where this idea comes from that the dungeons are strictly for items. I remember Yoshida-san saying the dungeons were to party and level up in, and the items are a bonus pretty much. It would be a little more difficult to get a leveling party if we had to wait hours and hours to get back into the dungeon. o.o; One time through doesn't really get you a ton of sp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
If you think of the dungeon as a place to level, as Yoshida-san said it was, it makes sense.
If you think of it as something that's supposed to be some huge LS event with lasting content and hard to get items that will take months for your LS to accomplish, I think it's natural that you'd be disappointed.
I do look forward to things like Dynamis and Limbus being added to the game in the future, but these dungeons aren't that type of content.
Of course I'd love if they did have some rare items in there that took more time and effort to get too, but who says they won't add some soon? :3
Agreed. I wouldn't mind long cool-down for big events and things you'd do with a LS. (I do hope they add alliances in somehow.. someday ; ; )Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
This is exactly it. :3 They are a place to rank/level up, but made to be challenging rather than droning on with the exact same monster for 5 hours. The boss at the end is a nice final touch, along with the items we can win along the way. It even comes with lore!Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
As far as MMOs go this is the most exciting leveling content I've seen yet. -
08-04-2011, 08:21 PMEkkoSomeone is masochist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
What's wrong with freedom ? -
08-04-2011, 09:00 PMAdvancedWindEr...from what I've seen (which admittedly isn't much, since I've been sick for a few days and out of the game), everything bolded is already the norm with the current timer anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
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08-04-2011, 09:58 PMCarmilliaWell, maybe you should have thought about it before spamming the dungeon for hours since it has been released? It's not SE's fault that you have nothing to do until next update, it's not our fault either... Guess who's to blame? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
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08-04-2011, 10:54 PMXatsh
Only negatives to not having a time limit I see is the fact is it makes it harder to form linkshell loyalty in anyway and it does shorten the life of the content due the ability to spam it non-stop.
Loyalty part is simple, it is more efficient atm to go with lowman statics or join as many groups as you can. This kills any formalized lotting/distribution system, since you can just go with someone else if you are not up to lot in LS 1... they can be kicked but that is less members now. And 2 it segments the ls, cliches just divide the ls into pieces... more less breaking down the ls over time.
The content is very anti linkshell, at least anti-ls for any ls group above 10-12 people. Sorta to be expected since it was capped as a lowman event more or less. So atm unless you have like 20-25 people online at one time... it sorta makes it hard to keep everyone active during events people will constantly get left out. Trust me members are never happy when they get left out of stuff because they got out of work too late and dungeon group is full, the 30 party is full and there is not enough people at the same level range to make a low 40 or NM group as well.
The short lived content part should be obvious... some groups are almost fully geared from it already. This mean the content had a horribly short life in mmo terms, where content should be valid for months and months at the min.
Square needs to start adding content designed for whole linkshells soon, not just small groups. Atm it is a pain to do anything as a ls without 30-40mins of organizing partys, reorganizing crap, and doing it once more to get everyone in.