Ramuh Rant

OK.
So we have a problem...well ok, so I have a problem, obviously not that many others consider this a "problem".

WHY DOES NO ONE DO RAMUH GDI!?

I get it, he's not as easy as hunts, the rewards aren't as great as hunts, but FFS SAKES PEOPLE... I have been trying to get his damn Thunderbolt Lance drop for my Dragoon since patch 2.3 and I. can't. get it.

Not because I suck at life and can't beat him (I've managed to clear him like 20+ times and seen every weapon drop EXCEPT DRG and MNK), but because it literally takes about 3-4 HOURS to organize people to get him done! And even then it's not a guaranteed win!

Seriously. They upped the rings to 110, great...no idea why weapons are still 100 >.>

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO PRY YOU PEOPLE AWAY FROM YOUR PRECIOUS HUNTS?

This is ridiculous. :mad:

/endrant.

Because Ramuh EX is a -really- hard fight? I legit have endgame raiding friends over on Excal who rank him as harder than Twintania.

Ramoo too hard for majority of the playerbase, it's sad but true.

It's probably (definitely) easier to just make Liberator through CT, it's better in every way, too.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

Because Ramuh EX is a -really- hard fight? I legit have endgame raiding friends over on Excal who rank him as harder than Twintania.

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Mechanically Ramuh is an incredibly simple fight, there's only really 3 mechanics in play, the orbs, Chaotic Strike, and Rolling Thunder. The problem is that it requires the party to be co-ordinated together, which is where most groups fail. Tanks need to communicate, DPS/Healers need to communicate with Orb Clearance, breaking terror, and cleansing rolling thunder. It's just not the sort of fight where 8 people can get together and go for due to the teamwork requirement.
Also Twintania isn't exactly a difficult fight, so "harder than Twin" isn't really a good scale for rating.

See... I'm not in it for the stats. Everyone is too stat obsessed in this game >.>

I actually just want the lance because I think (so far) it's the coolest looking DRG weapon available. I also barely ever see anyone on my server with any of his weapons.

I was actually really disappointed when I got a thunderbolt and saw what it looked like. There's like literally no glow on it. The upgraded leviathan weapon is 50x cooler.

Put some random elements in Titan ex and you have the same level of difficulty. Most people still have a hard time on the great Wall called Titan. I suggest joining or creating a Linkshell full of people has/can clear Primals

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Originally Posted by reality_check

I was actually really disappointed when I got a thunderbolt and saw what it looked like. There's like literally no glow on it. The upgraded leviathan weapon is 50x cooler.

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Different strokes for different folks. I for one am over crazy glow effects, so the Ramuh weapons are quite cool to me. Sleek organic look if that's up your alley, has a subtle bzzt when you unsheathe them, and the animated purple flicker that's also on the quiver looks cool in dark areas.

Mostly though, people don't do Ramuh because people can't handle coordination checks. I'm with you though, ended up joining a linkshell made specifically for matchmaking Ramuh Ex and it's been pretty active.

The main reason people don't like it so much, is because, while it still is scripted per say, there is more randomness involved than most fights. Or maybe that is a poor way to put it... A better way might be to say there is more personal responsibility than most fights in this game.

Being responsible for yourself and playing a game with random people doesn't go over well... Say someone goofs up, they get called out, and they won't like it. Or maybe someone goofs up and it isn't clear who's fault it was, then argument ensues...

It doesn't ever even really matter who's fault something is, they just need to do their best yanno? But people don't want to be responsible, they want it to be like a single player game where no one notices...

That and Ramuh actually has quite a bit of a DPS check... And DPS meters are forbidden so, I bet people have no idea if they are dpsing correctly.

So yea, do a fight where you might get called out? Or try to get threat on a hunt mob for credit with like 150 other people... where no one can really judge you unless you pull early! :P

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Originally Posted by Cherie

The main reason people don't like it so much, is because, while it still is scripted per say, there is more randomness involved than most fights. Or maybe that is a poor way to put it... A better way might be to say there is more personal responsibility than most fights in this game.

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Mhuah hah hah hah ha hah hah hah!!! Thanks for pointing this out. So many players screaming for "challenge" and "randomness" and spew their vitriol hate over "scripted" fights. And yet - when they are given "random", very few wants to touch it.

Gated behind Levi and Moogle Ex would be my guess.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Mhuah hah hah hah ha hah hah hah!!! Thanks for pointing this out. So many players screaming for "challenge" and "randomness" and spew their vitriol hate over "scripted" fights. And yet - when they are given "random", very few wants to touch it.

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So true! The thing is, it's not really all that random but... yea it feels more random than all the other fights. Most things that "choose" people... At least things that are annoying choosing people if not just more things in general... I mean, Titan has those plumes but, ya you just stack and all run away, it doesn't matter who it was placed on, unlike this fight.

Personally I like Ramuh. All the other primals I can just turn my brain off and run like a scared animal from stuff. :P Ramuh I actually have to kind of think of where I'm running to, lest I kill everyone.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Mhuah hah hah hah ha hah hah hah!!! Thanks for pointing this out. So many players screaming for "challenge" and "randomness" and spew their vitriol hate over "scripted" fights. And yet - when they are given "random", very few wants to touch it.

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I'm not sure I understand what's random about Ramuh EX?

It's always the same sequence. And the sequence is even shorter than what most scripted fights are like.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

I'm not sure I understand what's random about Ramuh EX?

It's always the same sequence. And the sequence is even shorter than what most scripted fights are like.

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Yea, it just feels random, because the person chosen for the mechanic actually has to make a choice... Unlike others, where they just run for their life and try to save themselves... Now that same person has to decide where to go to not kill someone... or sometimes, who they can hit with lightning and not kill.

I think that's why this fight is called random. The randomness is waaay more noticeable, but maybe it's actually in reality just the same.

I think they did a great job mixing "scripted vs random elements" on some of these harder mode of trials. All of them has "scripted" elements in terms of what comes next, but the placements are very random, which players the mob chooses to target are random, etc... It's funny how all these so called "elite" criticizing the battle system in here as "jump the rope" and consider it "boring" lol. BORING battle system would be FFXI, well maybe not snooze fest but you might as well call it "feed the tp to 1000 and spam WS and abilities".

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Ramoo too hard for majority of the playerbase, it's sad but true.

It's probably (definitely) easier to just make Liberator through CT, it's better in every way, too.



Mechanically Ramuh is an incredibly simple fight, there's only really 3 mechanics in play, the orbs, Chaotic Strike, and Rolling Thunder. The problem is that it requires the party to be co-ordinated together, which is where most groups fail. Tanks need to communicate, DPS/Healers need to communicate with Orb Clearance, breaking terror, and cleansing rolling thunder. It's just not the sort of fight where 8 people can get together and go for due to the teamwork requirement.
Also Twintania isn't exactly a difficult fight, so "harder than Twin" isn't really a good scale for rating.

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And we still have special people forming groups saying they don't need TS or Mumble... In PF... With people you may or may not have experience playing with.

I PFed and killed him about 10 times to get my ring before the patch hit. It's not an easy fight. Even for people that have killed the fight and have a full understanding of it.

The group I ran with would kill it once, then wipe 10-12 times, then kill it again, then wipe 7 times, then kill it again, then wipe 9 times, then kill it again, ect. The fight is just difficult overall. That's not to say that it needs to be nerfed, I like it the way it is.

It's more responsibility the player has to deal with than normal as Cherie mentioned. Titan touches on this with gaols, Twintania with Conflagration and Dreadknights, but with Ramuh there are a few more mechanics to deal with. Players are no longer left to "their own devices", they have to pay attention to others. Dps, mostly, are realizing what healers and tanks go through, and it may not jive too well with them. But I'm not entirely sure this is the reason so few people do Ramuh Ex.

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

It's more responsibility the player has to deal with than normal as Cherie mentioned. Titan touches on this with gaols, Twintania with Conflagration and Dreadknights, but with Ramuh there are a few more mechanics to deal with. Players are no longer left to "their own devices", they have to pay attention to others. Dps, mostly are realizing what healers and tanks go through, and may not jive too well with them. But I'm not entirely sure this is the reason so few people do Ramuh Ex.

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Pretty much. Ramuh EX is just another hardmode for tanks. DPS get the pressure in that one.

Because it's EXtremely unpleasant.

Though I do wish I had the lance as well.

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Originally Posted by zar

Gated behind Levi and Moogle Ex would be my guess.

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I think you have a point. Moogles is not a terribly difficult fight and pretty much every failed party I have been in is due to healers not using Esuna/Leeches on stuff they should be. Which kind of baffles me as a WHM main.

Ramuh is mostly stressful because it's incredibly easy to kill each other and holding yourself back from "trying to help" can be hard sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Zankes

I personally would rank Ramuh Ex same level as T7.

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I'd agree.

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Originally Posted by zar

Gated behind Levi and Moogle Ex would be my guess.

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Nope... Well 100% nope for Levi. Things is easier than Ifrit Hm. Moogle maybe

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I think you have a point. Moogles is not a terribly difficult fight and pretty much every failed party I have been in is due to healers not using Esuna/Leeches on stuff they should be. Which kind of baffles me as a WHM main.

Ramuh is mostly stressful because it's incredibly easy to kill each other and holding yourself back from "trying to help" can be hard sometimes.

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I'm not even a healer main, and I find healing KMX to be borderline boring - one healer can take care of both cleanses for Moogle-Go-Round and Thrown for a Loop (hell, a healer can even cleanse that off of him/herself if timed almost perfectly). I actually prefer going healer over my main (BLM) because it's stressful having to hold back on DPS. XD

As for Ramuh...Those times where two people with Thunderstorm going back and forth trying not to overlap the circles on the two people affected by Chaos...only for both to miss and kill the other two. Good times.

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I think you have a point. Moogles is not a terribly difficult fight and pretty much every failed party I have been in is due to healers not using Esuna/Leeches on stuff they should be. Which kind of baffles me as a WHM main.

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I've never been able to figure out what it is I can remove and what I cannot (the icons are too similar), and it's pretty unforgiving on how much time it gives you to remove them.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I've never been able to figure out what it is I can remove and what I cannot (the icons are too similar), and it's pretty unforgiving on how much time it gives you to remove them.

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The Bemoggled debuff looks similar to the Fire elemental symbol (I think it's right side up, and the tank's one is upside down), and Thrown for a Loop I think has a picture of a Moogle head on it.

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Originally Posted by zar

Gated behind Levi and Moogle Ex would be my guess.

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this xc

Mog ex is biigest troll fight ever. It's - - simple fight for dps, but I guess it's hard for tanks?. I been bashing my head against this wall with a month, nobody wants to do it.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I think you have a point. Moogles is not a terribly difficult fight and pretty much every failed party I have been in is due to healers not using Esuna/Leeches on stuff they should be. Which kind of baffles me as a WHM main.

Ramuh is mostly stressful because it's incredibly easy to kill each other and holding yourself back from "trying to help" can be hard sometimes.

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I'm one of those healers. I fail to remove the status effects sometimes and the party wipes. I daydream A LOT. But I've already cleared the fight so it's not like I can't do it. Attentiveness is the key to that fight and sometimes that just goes out window at the wrong time. But I have never had a healer partner that refused to remove a detrimental status effect cause they didn't feel like it or some variation of that.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I've never been able to figure out what it is I can remove and what I cannot (the icons are too similar), and it's pretty unforgiving on how much time it gives you to remove them.

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The bemoggled icon (one shot from moogle go round) is the reverse of another icon, I think it's one of the resistance downs, it's just sort of flipped so they look similar.

Easiest way to deal with it is immediately look at the party list when you see them both being channeled, huge bluish circle. Moogle Go Round and Holy happen at the same time. If quick enough, one healer can cleanse both if both targets are in casting range.

Come at me kupo! (chained charms), the chains will appear a bit early before it goes off, and it happens in combo with Moogle Rain of Death, with the yellow crosshair icons on 3 players. Icon is just a moogle.

Important to note that sometimes moogle rain of death comes out with both tank mogs doing a hate reset in which case there will be no charm for that combo. It's one or the other.

Best way to stay alert is to pay attention to the King, and the combination attack cue with the 3 bullhorns.

So many reasons:

- Gated behind Moogle Ex.
- Independent responsibility that affects the whole group. Someone screws up? Its probably a wipe.
- Some degree of Randomness. Specially lethal to unprepared players.
- Pretty much requires some sort of external Voice software. Communication is everything on this fight, and chat doesn't cut it.
- Melee unfriendly.
- Ridiculous DPS check. My static has half the team on HA weapons and it's still cutting it close. I have no idea who designed this but I'm pretty sure its impossible to do on the base iLvl required.
- Best winning strategy not widespread, requires good DPS healers and a DPS oriented tank.


Seriously tho, that last point is the make-or-break point of most Ramuh fights. If your healers and the tanks are not DPSing the adds your chance of clearing becomes nearly zil. Too often I see the current MT stick on Ramuh instead of attacking an add behind them, or a healer complaining why the DPS slacking when all they did was cure. Healers that can actually DPS amongst all that chaos are few and far inbetween :/

And I hope they don't nerf it. At all. It's a fun fight that our group suffer/enjoy at the same rate.

Edit: By nerfing I mean the adds' HP, mechanics, damage and that stuff. Not implying the echo.

Almost all the groups I was in struggle especially with the DPS check, and these are players rocking i100 - 110 weapons. Ramuh drops i100 which would imply the fight was made for players using i95 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Svalitz

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO PRY YOU PEOPLE AWAY FROM YOUR PRECIOUS HUNTS?

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The Answer is (was) Nexus.

After it´s release, so much groups formed "let´s farm ramuh and do some nexus upgrading with it..."

That was a cool day, but no drop for me unfortunately, but... since someone brought up that "bonus" based on time stuff for nexus, HM Primaes went to be the new Hunt... (for bonus light)

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Originally Posted by Kyros

Seriously tho, that last point is the make-or-break point of most Ramuh fights. If your healers and the tanks are not DPSing the adds your chance of clearing becomes nearly zil. Too often I see the current MT stick on Ramuh instead of attacking an add behind them, or a healer complaining why the DPS slacking when all they did was cure. Healers that can actually DPS amongst all that chaos are few and far inbetween :/

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This is honestly the best point, you should know that on paper the DPS check isn't very high, only 1000 pdps is needed. But it is a disturbing norm that tanks and healers believe they should strictly stick to their job only and it is a huge handicap when they don't contribute. Tanks do not need full fending accessories for most of the stuff in this game, and they need it for virtually nothing if they have a i90 melded set, but it depresses me to hear tanks actually get abused in groups for daring to wear DPS accessories.

An exceptional tanking combo can carry at least a 3rd of that check alone, and healers don't have DPS skills for nothing, too many people underestimate the help that good tank and healer DPS has and this fight certainly punishes them for neglecting it.

To sum up: 1000dps is hard? No way. Hard when you factor in downtime and average output of most DD? It's getting close. Take out good tank and healer DPS? The straw just broke the camel's back.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

this xc

Mog ex is biigest troll fight ever. It's a simple fight for dps, but I guess it's hard for tanks?. I been bashing my head against this wall with a month, nobody wants to do it.

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Really easy to tank, just focus target the other tank's moogle and swap the king when it hits 3 stacks. Honestly, even when Mog first dropped, you could heal through any of the damage buffs from the other moogles so you could literally just stand there and whack away on your moogle. Only thing hard about Mog is being a Summoner in that fight.

Ramuh is pretty rough, though it is definitely PFable. Even without TS, you can make some easy macros to communicate who needs stacks/who needs to break Rolling Thunder. I've seen a lot of PF groups resorting to solo tanking with 2 SCHs, but I've rarely seen those SCH slots actually get filled. His mechanics will probably see some kind of nerf in 2.4, so I wouldn't worry if you can't clear him yet.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

this xc

Mog ex is biigest troll fight ever. It's - - simple fight for dps, but I guess it's hard for tanks?. I been bashing my head against this wall with a month, nobody wants to do it.

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Nah, tank is probably the easiest role in moogle ex. Play pass the king and let everyone else do what they do.

Bonus points if the tank actually does dps on the GLD/MRD, whichever they have.

I'm a Scholar and I dps only when the adds are up. After that i wont dps because everyone starts taking a lot damage after add phases. Especially after 30%

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Originally Posted by Kyros

- Ridiculous DPS check. My static has half the team on HA weapons and it's still cutting it close. I have no idea who designed this but I'm pretty sure its impossible to do on the base iLvl required.

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Our team is able to do it with 3 dps.

The game is super casual and 90 percent of the player base can't be asked to do even slightly mentally engaging content. That's why no one does Ramuh. Sad thing is, it's going to get worse. Because as se sees no one is doing this, they will implement easier fights to draw in more players. What they should have done is slowly taught people to do difficult content instead of throwing stuff like titan ex in people's faces and making everyone hate any for of difficulty this game can offer.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Almost all the groups I was in struggle especially with the DPS check, and these are players rocking i100 - 110 weapons. Ramuh drops i100 which would imply the fight was made for players using i95 weapons.

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To be blunt, they suck at their jobs.

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Originally Posted by Wizhard

Our team is able to do it with 3 dps.

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Word, its really not that hard of a DPS-check.

To those who say its melee unfriendly I disagree quite a bit. Having 1-2 melee is ideal imo as it helps with spacing and grants you melee LB3. Melees are usually towards the tops of DPS as well.

You also dont need TS/Mumble/Vent. Mark people 1,2,3,4,5. Have the designated area to go for chaotic. Clear chaotic 1->5, break tether 5->1. Be careful with phase pushing at 65% and 30%. Post 2-hr try to always leave 1 orb for tanks. EZ.