Trouble with keeping agro during dungeons.

Hello my fellow tanks,

I have just started playing GLD and MRD and I have noticed that I have trouble keeping agro when I am tanking three or more monsters. I have read tips and advices on this forum and other gaming forums, but still I see no change with my tanking. Right now both my GLD and MRD are around level 20-21.

This is my rotation:
1. Shield Lob on mob.
2. Flash x2 or 3
3. Fast Blade + Savage Blade on monsters, I rotate the monsters everytime.
4. Fast Blade + Riot Blade (when I have agro on all the mobs.

I dont have any issues keeping agro on one or two monsters, but more then these two and I tend to start losing them.

Can you guys please help me?

At that level gladiator/marauder don't have their trademark tanking abilities (shield oath/defiance) so naturally holding hate on multiple mobs especially with an archer in the party is trying on newer tanks. You rotation is sound though, keep up the good work there. I'd say keep the flashes coming between the sword combos and use markings to keep damage focused on one mob (requires dd to work with you). Also keep in mind if its an i90+ dd in low level roulette don't worry too much if they rip hate because at that level they can take a few hits.

1) Mark your primary target. DPS won't always pay attention to it, but when they do, it makes things much easier.
2) Flash/Overpower more. The more targets there are, the more efficient flash & overpower are both from a threat per second perspective and a threat per resource perspective. Overkill early on gives you a bit more breathing room to start on single-target moves.
3) Make sure your gear is up to date, especially your weapon. Level synced players with level synced gear will wipe the floor with your threat multipliers if you're too far behind on upgrades.
4) Prioritize. Regardless of marks & whether they're being followed, cycle targets and look at the threat level on each. Know which ones you're about to lose threat on first. Note that if you're using a gamepad, you need to fully switch targets to get the party threat meter display; sub-targeting without fully switching makes it blink like it's switching, but you're still seeing your current hard-target's thread meters.

I wouldn't worry too much about using riot blade to increase your DPS, even if you don't have Halone yet, unless you're down to a single target. Like Bixby says, marking can help here and you should definitely give it a shot if you haven't tried yet. I always find I have more trouble keeping hate when I mark (probably because of a combination of "I don't need to be as aggressive about maintaining aggro since I'm marking" and forgetting how quickly some classes DOTs or a healer's overheals can stack up enmity), but I do see how much of a difference it makes when I run a DPS or healer class.

All of Bixby's recommendations are actually really good. If you're still having a lot of trouble keeping enmity after incorporating them, consider tweaking your UI. http://i.imgur.com/hQz1DuR.jpg this is how mine looks right now (although I was BRDing it up when I took it, the main motivation for the layout is tanking/healing). Moving the party list and the enmity list closer to wherever your focus is while playing (like your character or your hot/cross bars) can make it easier to cycle through enemies and see what needs to be topped off.

Each attack in the enmity combo has a much larger multiplier than the one below it, so a good strategy for maintaining enmity on larger groups (especially once you get halone) is to use the weaker attacks on the thing the party is focused on once you've established enmity, and then throw halones onto other enemies to make sure you stay ahead of the healer and any DoTs. Added bonus is that the halone debuff on all of the enemies reduces the damage you take a bit.

As stated before, tanking in the early dungeons (before Provoke, Rage of Halone, and Shield Oath) can be tough.

To critique your rotation, I would tell you not to use Riot Blade unless you must. You're better off getting a surplus of enmity, so you don't have any surprises down the road. About the only time I Riot Blade is when the last enemy is almost dead, or if I REALLY need MP, which doesn't really ever happen.

In the lower-level dungeons, I would recommend using Flash about every third action. Shield Lob, Flash, Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Flash, etc. Once you've got a decent lead on the focus target, start cycling through targets and checking them out. Hit them with Fast Blade + Savage Blade if you have a good lead on the focus.

Ultimately, remember that, in the early game, the classes are rather homogenized. Pretty much all of them can take several hits, so it's not such a big deal that you tank perfectly.

I would like to thank you all for giving me these tips. I have tried them on my GLD and its working, I am keeping agro now.

Thanks for helping me.

If any tanks who have experience with GLD/PLD or MRD/WAR have any tips, please share them with me. This thread might be helpfull for other new tanks.;)

Another thing to add is that you don't need to always use Fast Blade and Savage Blade together as a combo to get the benefits of increased enmity from SB. I found that in some cases, I could not generate enmity faster than some party members while adding in FB's GCD so I just smacked the mob with SB a few times - and it worked. Note that you'll have to try it out in many different situations to get the "feel" for it as there's no perfect tanking formula that works for every situation.

One thing to consider as well is when switching targets to place your threat combos is, don't just start a fresh combo on a mob. What I mean is your "main target" is the once you start your fresh target on, 1-2-3, hit it again with 1, then switch to target 2 and hit it with 2-3, flash / overpower, go back to first target or target you see loosing the most health as that's the dps' target(hopefully it's your main target) then 1-2 it, move to third target and give it the 3.

1-2-3 combo is your threat combo, Fast - Savage - RoH(when you get it) for PLD, or Heavy - Skull - Butchers(when you get it) for WAR.

I found rotating this way helps a lot. Using flash or overpower in between combos help ensure you get a bit more seal on the threat.

Sounds like you have found your way to maintaining threat and that is great news.

Keep it up,

Syn

First of all you must learn how enmity works, and get a grip of how healer and DPS build enmity in a target. That way you can react, but if a dps sticks with a target you have to attack de same target and spam flash eventually to avoid the healer being attacked.

Its simple, but it works for me.

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Originally Posted by albertopin

First of all you must learn how enmity works, and get a grip of how healer and DPS build enmity in a target. That way you can react, but if a dps sticks with a target you have to attack de same target and spam flash eventually to avoid the healer being attacked.

Its simple, but it works for me.

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Actually, with everything under control, the Tank should put marks to say to everyone: please put most of your attention to this one, as I'll be flashing for other ones and maintaining aggro on the 1.

It's a team effort for every encounter: if DPS wants to wander on their own, and they don't know about their aggro bar or just don't care, taxing the Tank more than he should be, there's an imbalance right here. And taxing the Healer as he now has to heal the tank and the nice DPS.

Tank should lead, which means only one leader.

Others follow, no one will die. (except Dragoons ;) <-- running joke) It's not 'the Tank needs to target what the DPS is hitting on' as DPS should even sometimes have waited for the Tank to build aggro, specially if there is an evident iLvl difference. Not any other way around.

OP - when you focus on one mob, you have to check not only the aggro colours, but the white bars under the party members, where you should be A. Then you check who's 2 and check their white bar, so you can react accordingly. Sadly you have to click on all mobs at some point to see who's gonna take aggro from you, and prevent that.

Specially when you are low on MP and can't flash ^^

I myself try to time my flash with the Flares and Medica, so far it's ok. (Flame 2 if lower-level)

You're doing ok, kudos to you for suiting up with heavy armor. ;)

just a little tip.. using defensive cooldowns generates a little hate when you're in combat..

can be useful at times.. such as grabbing initial aggro during pulls (e.g. Twintania initial adds) or when your healer face aggros mobs

Your rotation is decent the only changes I can suggest is forget doing the Riot Blade combo and focus on using the Savage Blade combo instead and doing 3 or 4 flashes should anchor a group better than 2 or 3 Flashes. If you use 3 or 4 Flashes at the start of a pull you will be at full MP by the time you reach the next pull even without using Riot Blade. 30 extra potency in damage + unneeded MP is worth less than 370 more enmity per combo.

@ Luvbunny

I understand where you are coming from but you should edit your post to remove specific player name before the hammer comes out. Just a friendly heads up.

Also while leveling my SMN/SCH I ran in to two things that we can all learn from.

1. In Darkhold, a newer tank was popping ALL his CD's before pulls. All of them. Now there are times where this "might" ( and I use it loosely) be a good idea, but they are far and few between. Don't blow your wad all at once. Pace yourself.

2. Was doing a daily Roulette on BLM, got paired up with another BLM in Stone Vigil HM. The tank didn't stand a chance. He couldn't hold aggro against us, which really wasn't his fault or a problem as we were melting mobs. After we finished one group the other BLM ran ahead and turned a corner and bodypulled (by accident I figure) a group. Well, they got slept to assist in gaining control of the situation, but were immediately woken by a CoS. Things go slightly south. Tank starts to cry stating that we are terrible dps, and are purposely trying to take aggro from him. ((Now here is the point of my little story)) He tells us, he is done, going to go watch a movie, and then parks his a$$. YOU ARE GOING TO LOOSE AGGRO. Accept it. Let it make you a better tank. Honestly I like it when I loose threat to DPS, makes me work harder and play better. Don't get upset if it happens, adapt and overcome.

BTW, we figured out that SV HM doesn't really need a tank, 2BLM and a WHM do just fine lol.

Syn

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Unless you happen to get the misfortune of being shoved into the same party via duty roulette with Betis Capitan from Belias, which happen to be the worst tank I have ever encountered lol. A tank who does not use any abilities other than auto attack....

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That was likely a tank bot.

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Originally Posted by TheodoreMcIntyre

That was likely a tank bot.

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Probably - I never thought of this. He seems operated by normal human who does not understand auto translate of his own Paladin abilities, nor any other language, english nor japanese. Though a quick check on lodestone - he does not look like a bot - funny thing is, he does have level 50 whm.

I was having a lot of trouble tanking halatali today, due to having fully geared blm and brd both outputting massive dps, so I ended up switching to full aoe tank rotation, and it worked fairly well for the dungeon. didn't lose hate on anything, that is to say.
the rotation I used was:

Shield lob+mark first enemy,
flash till mana gone
fast->riot->flash->fast->riot->flash rinse repeat until all the enemies died.

Once you get rage of halone, and definitely once you get sword/shield oaths, this becomes less effective, but at low levels it can be helpful.

edit- I know I might get hate for suggesting the riot blade tank method, so im going to restate: once you get rage of halone, this becomes obsolete!

Also remember that you can weave Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within into your Halone combo when you get it / them since they are OGC.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

edit- I know I might get hate for suggesting the riot blade tank method, so im going to restate: once you get rage of halone, this becomes obsolete!

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No, with multiple mobs flash until no mp then the riot blade combo then flash, repeat, and circle of scorn at the start and as soon as it's available, is the way to go, for example WP and Brayflox HM quick runs with big pulls. With cooldowns one after another, not stacked. You can't do the rage of halone combo to many mobs soon enough.

For the OP: don't use the riot blade combo unless you need it to recover mp, or there will be no aggro problems and you still don't have rage of halone. The rage of halone combo hits harder and puts a debuff on the mob, on top of creating great enmity.

yeah, that disclaimer came from a thread that I posted in like 2 months ago, where someone asked a similar questions and me, being a lvl 17 gla at that point posted "Just spam flash until you run out of mp, then combo fast and riot blade and flash whenever you have mana to, it is perfect agro!" and got like 25 posts reviling me for it, saying "riot blade is useless, use savage blade always, ignore that noob troll!"

Linking the IGN guide that I got the information from probably didn't help my case, either, though...