Hey Yoshi, you said personal housing "will be far more affordable."

link.

(Emphasis mine)

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Personal Housing[INDENT]While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.

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And from the patch notes...

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* Plots will sell for the same price to both free company and individual buyers.

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4+ mil for the smallest size...

What the hell, Yoshi?

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-9023-I-lied-gif-5jdf.gif

It will be more affordable though, because the prices are lowered every 6 earth hours :D

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Originally Posted by Antanias

It will be more affordable though, because the prices are lowered every 6 earth hours :D

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Ahhh, you're applying for a position with Yoshi's PR team?

Here's another line you can use, I guess: "I didn't lie, I used marketing strategy."

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Originally Posted by Antanias

It will be more affordable though, because the prices are lowered every 6 earth hours :D

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What happens to all houses so it is the same? Yes, it will be more affordable, but thats not the lie, the lie is more affordable THAN FC HOUSING. And they are almost the same.

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR RIOT ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Liars! It's a shame this patch.

At least now your personal houses will be as big as FC houses!

I bought my house for my fc for 9 mil gil, it wasn't really hard to get. So I don't see how that is a problem for anyone

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-9023-I-lied-gif-5jdf.gif

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Oh my god.. that gif..loool

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

At least now your personal houses will be as big as FC houses!

I bought my house for my fc for 9 mil gil, it wasn't really hard to get. So I don't see how that is a problem for anyone

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...Are we really going to start with the "I have money so I don't understand why/how anyone could have less" posts? Shall we let them eat cake too?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Ahhh, you're applying for a position with Yoshi's PR team?

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They don't have an office big enough to hold even 0.001% of the yarn I give out to my fellow miqo'te :3

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

What happens to all houses so it is the same? Yes, it will be more affordable, but thats not the lie, the lie is more affordable THAN FC HOUSING. And they are almost the same.

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I prefer to think of it as "at least we're not starting from the 2.1 prices". Those were waaaaaay worse.

it is affordable.
i have 3mil, and i NEVER even tried to make money. and i bothered even less than normal, past 2-3 months.
just do daily roulettes, and maps, and you'll get millions, in a month, just from that. then you can do daily beast, and leves, etc.
or just SB a bit, and sell materias.
it's so easy to get gil, even on casual level, so i duno what ppl complaining about.
If you can't afford it, you're not even playing the content, the game has to offer.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

It will be more affordable though, because the prices are lowered every 6 earth hours :D

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Right and housing will be completely sold out by the time this patch has been out for 24 hours. The big issue i have is resell value. People will be buying these houses just to take them off market and sell them at a higher price once the the demand is high and there is no availability. That's assuming they will implement a way to sell personal housing to other players.

Oh please. Yoshi's post was for patch 2.1 forecasts.

I guess he could have spoken in really vague legalese to "cover his butt", but nobody with any common sense should be surprised that situations and decisions may change after numerous patches.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Oh please. Yoshi's post was for patch 2.1 forecasts.

I guess he could have spoken in really vague legalese to "cover his butt", but nobody with any common sense should be surprised that situations and decisions may change after numerous patches.

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Even if you take out the specific forecasts, his post conveyed two things:

1. Personal housing will be separate from FC housing.
2. Personal housing will be more accessible (affordable) than FC housing.

Failed to deliver on both.

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Originally Posted by Vaeix

Right and housing will be completely sold out by the time this patch has been out for 24 hours. The big issue i have is resell value. People will be buying these houses just to take them off market and sell them at a higher price once the the demand is high and there is no availability. That's assuming they will implement a way to sell personal housing to other players.

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There is no resale value, once a house/plot is bought it can't be sold, you simply lose the gil by basically giving up the plot. This was mentioned in the patch notes when FC housing was first implemented months ago.

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Originally Posted by Xine

There is no resale value, once a house/plot is bought it can't be sold, you simply lose the gil by basically giving up the plot. This was mentioned in the patch notes when FC housing was first implemented months ago.

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Although unreliable you could technically sell your plot's availability. Relinquishing your plot at a specific time while someone readies to purchase it.

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Originally Posted by Xine

There is no resale value, once a house/plot is bought it can't be sold, you simply lose the gil by basically giving up the plot. This was mentioned in the patch notes when FC housing was first implemented months ago.

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That just means that plots will be bought and left empty until they are sellable.

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Originally Posted by Xine

There is no resale value, once a house/plot is bought it can't be sold, you simply lose the gil by basically giving up the plot. This was mentioned in the patch notes when FC housing was first implemented months ago.

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You can buy the plot. The offer to "relinquish" it by a set price to someone that really wants it.

There are serveral nice positioned small houses i can think of, even if not, being arround 120 small houses for a full server of people wanting it, buying it for 4.000.000 gil and then asking any price below the medium housing price is more than possible, you just have to compromise and do everything via private chat so you can properly relinquish that land and the other player can get it.

I can easily see PF full of small houses for arround 15 to 20 million tomorrow. Same happening to medium and big houses. So, the worst part of it, plots are going to be sold, another "legal gap" in SE mindset of making things rare and locked out from everyone.

This will work just like primal/coil clears in a way.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Even if you take out the specific forecasts, his post conveyed two things:

1. Personal housing will be separate from FC housing.
2. Personal housing will be more accessible (affordable) than FC housing.

Failed to deliver on both.

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Your post does not say anything against the possibility of decisions changing following several patches. (i.e. The primary point)

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Originally Posted by Tule

Although unreliable you could technically sell your plot's availability. Relinquishing your plot at a specific time while someone readies to purchase it.

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That defeats the purpose for the ones buying, you'd wind up paying at least double the normal price just for a plot. Consider compensating the person(s) relinquishing their own plot and furnishings not to mention anything extra they'd want to charge on top of that plus paying for the plot for yourself/your FC plus the house. The only point in doing so would be to drain your own resources faster simply for the purpose of satisfying a need that can be sated simply by waiting until the next patch. Patience is a virtue for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Xine

That defeats the purpose for the ones buying, you'd wind up paying at least double the normal price just for a plot. Consider compensating the person(s) relinquishing their own plot and furnishings not to mention anything extra they'd want to charge on top of that plus paying for the plot for yourself/your FC plus the house. The only point in doing so would be to drain your own resources faster simply for the purpose of satisfying a need that can be sated simply by waiting until the next patch. Patience is a virtue for a reason.

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Instant gratification is what moves the minds of the XXI century people.

And you have to just buy the plot, no need to build the house or anything, and yes, i can see people paying more than twice for THAT plot.

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Originally Posted by StateAlchemist

That just means that plots will be bought and left empty until they are sellable.

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Not really worth the response but whatever, SE won't make plots sellable and they've given their reasons why in a post made months ago when FC housing was first released. So no....you can't sell housing plots to other players using this method, and the other one which I replied to here says why.

atleast we will know where to find the gil sellers now lol

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Instant gratification is what moves the minds of the XXI century people.

And you have to just buy the plot, no need to build the house or anything, and yes, i can see people paying more than twice for THAT plot.

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Instant gratification.....I love that, that's what's killing the IQ of the world, the mentality of "I don't care, I just want it now." Incoming Idiocracy sooner than 500 years from now, more like 50 years if that.

But I guess people will continue being stupid and impulsive simply for the fact that nothing and no one else matters, carry on morons and idiots of the planet, pray you don't take society down with you.

Edit: I forgot something, if a house isn't placed on the plot within I think 2 weeks or 30 days of purchase of the plot, the plot is forfeit and your gil is not reimbursed. So you'd have to sell it before you automatically lose the plot due to not putting a house on it within the time limit, or find someone to "sell" the plot to within the time limit.

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Originally Posted by Xine

That defeats the purpose for the ones buying, you'd wind up paying at least double the normal price just for a plot. Consider compensating the person(s) relinquishing their own plot and furnishings not to mention anything extra they'd want to charge on top of that plus paying for the plot for yourself/your FC plus the house. The only point in doing so would be to drain your own resources faster simply for the purpose of satisfying a need that can be sated simply by waiting until the next patch. Patience is a virtue for a reason.

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I've seen rare items and melded items go for over 10 mill. Wouldn't be out of question for something as useful as a house (that allows for gardening, decoration, and other personal happiness) to sell for that much. 4 mill for the plot, 6 mill to the player, or even more. Especially if there are literally no plots left. Again, not reliable, but could definitely happen.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Your post does not say anything against the possibility of decisions changing following several patches. (i.e. The primary point)

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They had almost a full year to warn us that it was going to change. Maybe, just maybe, if housing is going to be for the elite, they shouldn't say things that give the impression it will be accessible?

Instead we get this post from Yoshi that's basically "lol I had to calm people down". I guess I should just stop trusting producers ever, but I actually had some respect for the man.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Your post does not say anything against the possibility of decisions changing following several patches. (i.e. The primary point)

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Of course not. We would have (and still do)called that "flip flopping", "having it both ways" ,"being unreliable", "pulling a 180", "not saying what you mean" and other such things synonymous with untrustworthiness.

Hello,

The following is a comment from Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Hello, everyone. Producer and Director Yoshida here.

Thank you for all the large amount of feedback regarding the prices of land for personal housing which was implemented in Patch 2.38.

As the current personal housing prices are higher than what players expected, I would like to discuss the statement I made previously regarding the plan to make the personal housing prices cheaper than Free Company housing.

■Regarding what I said■

The statement I said was from a post made last December.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1685344
At that time, we were correcting the economic disparity between legacy players and new players with regards to Free Company land prices in Patch 2.1. As we were hoping to implement World Transfers as quickly as possible, we set Free Company plot prices on the high side. Due to this, we received a lot of feedback mentioning that even though there were plans for personal housing, there would be no way that players would be able to pay that high of a cost. In my reply, I wrote: “I can say that prices will be completely separate from Free Company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.”

What this meant was the following:

• The prices will be completely separate from Free Company land prices (At the time of Patch 2.1)
• We’ll be making the prices much cheaper than what they are currently (At the time of Patch 2.1)

However, reading this again, I realize that this statement is extremely unclear. Also, because I wrote this quickly to try to quell the uneasiness at the time, I ended up causing even more problems for everyone. I sincerely apologize for this.

■How we decided on the prices for personal housing■

After Patch 2.1 we’d been monitoring the land purchase conditions on all Worlds and largely reducing the prices in stages. Additionally, the original time frame for reaching the lowest land price was three months, which we shortened to one month. Due to this, the prices of land drop several tens of thousands of gil every six hours. After one month the price would be half of what it was originally.

Additionally, in order to stimulate the in-game economy after Patch 2.1, we increased the methods in which you can obtain gil and the average amount of gil all players possess increased severalfold. We are constantly checking the amount of gil everyone possesses, and based on this we made the decision that the starting prices of personal housing should be the land prices at the time that Patch 2.3 was implemented.

Focus will always be on the prices at release, but after one month these prices will be halved. The average amount of gil in possession is much greater than you all imagine, and we are concerned that if we were to lower the cost of land for personal housing any further it would exacerbate problems like RMT and the purchase of land by secondary characters.

As we have also received requests to make it so you can garden and raise chocobos from personal houses, we strived to develop personal housing with the same core features as Free Company houses to address this feedback.

When setting the prices, it’s not as though we didn’t even consider whether we should separate the prices for Free Company land and personal housing land; however, looking at the current economic conditions and also considering future expansion we decided to make the prices the same. I apologize and hope for your understanding.

■The reason why Free Company houses and personal houses are in the same areas■

The biggest reason is to ensure the effective utilization of land. FFXIV is entering a stable period and the amount of newly created Free Companies is gently declining, therefore the demand for new Free Company houses will also decline. Additionally, with expansions to the land sale feature, after the demand for land has been fulfilled there will gradually be land openings in the wards.

On the other hand, when it comes to personal housing, with the constant increase in the amount of gil everyone possesses, as time passes the demand for personal housing will increase and a large amount of open land will be necessary.

If we were to separate Free Company housing and personal housing into different areas, in the event that Free Company land opens up I believe we would then receive requests asking to make it possible to build personal houses on those plots. So in order to balance the two we made it possible to purchase land in the same housing areas and feel this will allow for land to be utilized efficiently.

■In conclusion■

In regards to the housing system, there are a lot of elements that are intertwined with each other. For example, the hefty amount of gil required to purchase, or whether you play within a Free Company or by yourself, and also due to the fact that the implementation cost and the allocation of demands becomes more complex, there are times when the decisions made by the development team are not always in perfect alignment with the thoughts of the players.

However, similar to what we did after Patch 2.1, we will be doing our best to answer everyone’s feedback and demands, but we would like to ask for some time. Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

The following is a comment from Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida.

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Thanks for the response, but I've seen that post. At the very very least, some communication/warning in advance would have been nice...

Thanks Camate, what about the question of 'why have we waited so long for content which isn't any different and why have our FC houses which some of us worked hard to get just been lumped in with personal housing therefore devoiding a lot of the value they had to our FC's and their respective members?'

Thank you for all the effort. This must be hard for the dev team.

Why can't we just have a small zone where just the own home is?
Personal Housing should be something special and accessible for everyone.
There is no reason to place it in the same zone where the FC houses are.

It would have a more personal feeling to have a house in an extra zone.

"If we were to separate Free Company housing and personal housing into different areas, in the event that Free Company land opens up I believe we would then receive requests asking to make it possible to build personal houses on those plots. So in order to balance the two we made it possible to purchase land in the same housing areas and feel this will allow for land to be utilized efficiently."



Makes sense to me.

Hmm. To clarify my last post a little, I'm still pretty not OK with a system that keeps housing in the hands of a very very small elite (in terms of pricing AND availability). From reading other threads around I know I'm not the only one that saved up furniture and set aside what we thought was a pretty decent chunk of change, only to get locked out of a system that was designed for groups working together to pay for it.

I won't bash Camate for being the messenger, but I will call out Yoshi for giving the impression (well, outright saying, actually.... regardless of the post-2.38 spin he puts on it) that the system would be accessible and saying NOTHING until it's dropped on us.

That's great....now next time one of my customers asks me for an estimate for the services he's trying to get, I'll tell him "that price was valid until lunchtime, sorry I forgot to tell you....now it's afternoon so price has risen" and hope he's all fine and dandy with it.

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

Thank you for all the effort. This must be hard for the dev team.

Why can't we just have a small zone where just the own home is?
Personal Housing should be something special and accessible for everyone.
There is no reason to place it in the same zone where the FC houses are.

It would have a more personal feeling to have a house in an extra zone.

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Especially given how each Housing area has a road that goes off to some blocked area (I was so sure that would have been the personal housing district). Now I wonder where those roads will lead to in the future.

Two things. First of all, the higher you set the prices, the more you drive players into the arms of the gil sellers so the second part of the argument "The average amount of gil in possession is much greater than you all imagine, and we are concerned that if we were to lower the cost of land for personal housing any further it would exacerbate problems like RMT and the purchase of land by secondary characters." makes no sense to me.

Secondly, I submit that the average amount of gil per player is irrelevant. If anything, look at the median amount of gil which I would bet good money is lower.

But even if it isn't, why should the access to such a basic feature as housing be limited to the few and not generally available, at least in some form...and server limitations is not an excuse since all your competitors can handle this.

All I can say know is you better deliver on *2.4* >.>

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

The following is a comment from Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida.

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That... is an idiotic response. Yoshi-P said himself that hose wards are huge server sinks. It would make more sense to create instanced personal housing and reduce the number of free company wards as they become ghost towns.

I know SE has absolutely no experience creating instanced content; what with their big, open world and dynamic server-wide events, but you're smart. You can figure it out.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

We are constantly checking the amount of gil everyone possesses...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oph2CR6vKY8