Bard BiS - Auroral Brias vs HA Breeches?

Hey everyone,
I was looking through some of the end-game gear and came to a crossroads at which would be better for best-in-slot pants for Bard? Would the Auroral Brais (+39 DEX, +20 Det, +41 Skill Speed, and +46 VIT) be a better trade-off compared to the High Allagan Breeches of Aiming(+39DEX, +41 Crit Hit Rating, +29 Skill Speed, and +46 VIT)?

Mainly wondering if replacing that +20 Det for +41 Crit Hit Rating is worth it. Thanks in advanced! ^^

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Originally Posted by TheMelonPan

Mainly wondering if replacing that +20 Det for +41 Crit Hit Rating is worth it. Thanks in advanced! ^^

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In order for the DET to beat the CRIT, DET would have to be twice as valuable as CRIT point-for-point. Instead, they're about equal point-for-point. HA wins.

Thanks for the input Viridiana! ^^ Would you say the same applies for Crit Hit Rating against Accuracy?

I'm debating between going for the Auroral Choker (+18 DEX, +13 Accuracy, and +13 Determination) or the High Allagan Choker of Aiming (+18 DEX, +19 Crit Hit Rating, and +9 Determination)

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Originally Posted by TheMelonPan

Thanks for the input Viridiana! ^^ Would you say the same applies for Crit Hit Rating against Accuracy?

I'm debating between going for the Auroral Choker (+18 DEX, +13 Accuracy, and +13 Determination) or the High Allagan Choker of Aiming (+18 DEX, +19 Crit Hit Rating, and +9 Determination)

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Accuracy is the most important stat until it reaches whatever threshold you need.

Past the threshold, it's useless unless you're expecting to reach new content soon, in which case you may desire to plan for the next tier.

what Viridiana said is more or less true. However what you end up choosing in the long run greatly depends on what other gear you have in your equipment list.

This is the BiS list that I am contemplating working with for my Bard:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NSND

Bare in mind that the list I provided is the absolute end game Best In Slot and is what one would wear after completing all content. Also please note that the Judgement Ring of Aiming will be becoming Item Level 110 as of the update this evening, hence why I included it in my End Game Best In Slot list. I also included the Novus because although the High Allagan Weapon has a higher Item Level, the Novus Weapon actually will be better than the High Allagan once a few more updates take place.

Thank you both for the useful information! This helps a ton :)

fair warning, my Best In Slot List that I provided above is the list as it is available at the current time. It does not take into account any gear that will be released at a future time with the exception of the Judgement Ring update that is coming tonight. As such it doesn't account for future upgrades to Binding Coil gear, Relic Weapons, etc... It is just what is in my opinion the best gear as it currently stands.

Understood Tharian, I'm really excited to see what they're going to add in 2.38 and 2.4!

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Originally Posted by Tharian

what Viridiana said is more or less true. However what you end up choosing in the long run greatly depends on what other gear you have in your equipment list.

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Also true. Like how I'm unlikely to get any of the HA gear anytime soon. >_>

It also depends on what gear sources you'll consider. For example, if you include i90 crafted gear with full melds, you can wind up with a gear set that has more offensive stats than a pure i110 build. Of course, it'll also cost you an arm and a leg and be skillspeed heavy. . .

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Originally Posted by Tharian

fair warning, my Best In Slot List that I provided above is the list as it is available at the current time. It does not take into account any gear that will be released at a future time with the exception of the Judgement Ring update that is coming tonight. As such it doesn't account for future upgrades to Binding Coil gear, Relic Weapons, etc... It is just what is in my opinion the best gear as it currently stands.

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I have been trying forever to do a build where I hit my accuracy threshold and break 500 Crit and 300 Det. And you presented exactly what I was looking for.

Please, let me bake you a cake. T_T

You're welcome LillithCale :D

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Originally Posted by LillithCale

I have been trying forever to do a build where I hit my accuracy threshold and break 500 Crit and 300 Det. And you presented exactly what I was looking for.

Please, let me bake you a cake. T_T

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTNT

Same accuracy, 65 more critical, 32 more determination, and 40 more skill speed, at the cost of 23 dexterity. Overall gain of 5.97 weight. Though, y'know, cutting your GCD by nearly .04 is gonna hurt the TP. . .

I think I would rather stick with my build simply because I won't have to spend as much money on Materia Grafting. Though honestly my money will instead be deposited into melds in my Novus Weapon, but still, the Novus is a way better investment than the item level 90 crafted gear any day of the week.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

I think I would rather stick with my build simply because I won't have to spend as much money on Materia Grafting. Though honestly my money will instead be deposited into melds in my Novus Weapon, but still, the Novus is a way better investment than the item level 90 crafted gear any day of the week.

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Granted. Just pointing out the option. :)

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Originally Posted by Tharian

what Viridiana said is more or less true. However what you end up choosing in the long run greatly depends on what other gear you have in your equipment list.

This is the BiS list that I am contemplating working with for my Bard:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NSND

Bare in mind that the list I provided is the absolute end game Best In Slot and is what one would wear after completing all content. Also please note that the Judgement Ring of Aiming will be becoming Item Level 110 as of the update this evening, hence why I included it in my End Game Best In Slot list. I also included the Novus because although the High Allagan Weapon has a higher Item Level, the Novus Weapon actually will be better than the High Allagan once a few more updates take place.

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Why are you running High Allagan Earring over Auroral?

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Originally Posted by Taban

Why are you running High Allagan Earring over Auroral?

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because with the Auroral Earring I would have 501 Accuracy. This is way more than is absolutely essential. Yes it would give me 538 Critical Hit Rate, but I really can't justify over doing the accuracy that much just for a boost in crit hit rating. That said, if the content in the new update is sufficient to raise the accuracy cap enough, then I will be replacing that earring with the Auroral Earring as it is just the most optimal piece to replace first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

because with the Auroral Earring I would have 501 Accuracy. This is way more than is absolutely essential. Yes it would give me 538 Critical Hit Rate, but I really can't justify over doing the accuracy that much just for a boost in crit hit rating. That said, if the content in the new update is sufficient to raise the accuracy cap enough, then I will be replacing that earring with the Auroral Earring as it is just the most optimal piece to replace first and foremost.

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You should never give up damage stats because you have "to much accuracy".

Let me just say this now.
Crit is an RNG stat that does not contribute at all to your DPS if it does not activate.

Determination is a permanent damage increase.

20 determination outweights by far the Crit from the HA pants.

The HA ring is better than the Ramuh Ring, the determination and accuracy is better. Pair it with the Black Truffle rissoto / buttons in a blanket, and you wont have to use horrible Crit/acc food like the cabbage.

By moving around stats, 499 or so crit, to 520. That is close to nothing. Instead of having about 32% crit rate, you will have 31%. Yeah. 32 is just as good as 31.

Look at this.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTQZ
576/486/499/352/401/467

Compared to this
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NSND
576/495/526/311/420/458

5 acc under the cap for t9? are you even doing it? I have crap ton of clears and I have yet to miss with 480 accuracy.

Dropping 25~ crit to gain 41 determination is well worth it. and that -5 accuracy is irrelevant. I once forgot to switch set and I ran t6-t9 with 470 accuracy and I had less than 10 misses.

To answer your question, if you have everything at your disposal, Soldery Legs are better.

If not, just use whatever you get your hands on first, then worry about fixing your secondary stats to your preferences.

Drakuaza unfortunately you are operating under misinformation. Because of the way that the Bard operates, Critical Hit Rate is ALWAYS the superior stat for the Bard over Determination. Accuracy is the only stat other than the Primary Stat (Dexterity) that beats Critical Hit Rate in importance.

This is true because it is your Critical Hit Rate that determines how frequently your Damage over Time effects will actually score a critical hit. And it is only when your Damage over Time effects score a critical hit that you get extra Bloodletter procs. As such your Critical Hit Rate is superior to just about everything else. Thus the higher your Critical Hit Rate, the more Bloodletter Procs you get.

With your build you will be missing Bloodletter Procs, you will not be hitting your target as often as you should in Turn 9, and your attacks will happen at a slower rate of fire. Yes you will have the benefit that your attacks will do slightly higher base damage, but all told that is not a sufficient benefit when you are losing so much overall DPS because of vastly inferior stats.

I'm a huge sucker for DETERMINATION, but my BRD has been noted to suck anyway.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

Thing

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25 Crit is a pointless stat investment that only gives you 1% crit rate. It is insignificant. And as I said, I have plenty of t9 clears. If I could drop more my accuracy I would. It does not affect it at all. I have no idea why people that havent even cleared content like turn 9 go on saying the accuracy cap is 100% needed for a bard. Crit is an RNG stat that does 0 absolute damage. It is just pure RNG.

If you miss an attack as a bard, who cares, keep firing. You require no positional requirements.

It is not. the only ones besides a tank that need the accuracy cap are the melee dps. They cannot afford to lose a combo chain.

Here's what I'm hoping to finish before 2.4: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTR5

Hopefully the nexus upgrade won't be insane and I can have it finished before the update.

Final numbers after 2.38 upgrades should be 578/516/542/314/383/468 Plus any secondary stat upgrades that come with the i115 relic(i115 weapon dex and vit+extra stats from ramuh upgrade were added in).

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Originally Posted by Hybris-Maenad

Here's what I'm hoping to finish before 2.4: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTR5

Hopefully the nexus upgrade won't be insane and I can have it finished before the update.

Final numbers after 2.38 upgrades should be 578/516/542/314/383/468 Plus any secondary stat upgrades that come with the i115 relic(i115 weapon dex and vit+extra stats from ramuh upgrade were added in).

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Too much accuracy. Switch that Aural Choker for the HA choker.

With your build. you actually benefit more from a slightly higher crit rate at the cost of 4 det.

I would intend to for anything other than coil.

Again, this is my 2.4 starter build. I assume t10 will need around 515.

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Originally Posted by Hybris-Maenad

I would intend to for anything other than coil.

Again, this is my 2.4 starter build. I assume t10 will need around 515.

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472 was the accuracy cap for bard in turn 5. 472 was perfect for t6. Following this trend, 491 is already for turn 9 for bard. t10 will need you to have 491 and T13 will eventually make you go for 515.

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Originally Posted by Drakuaza

25 Crit is a pointless stat investment that only gives you 1% crit rate. It is insignificant. And as I said, I have plenty of t9 clears. If I could drop more my accuracy I would. It does not affect it at all. I have no idea why people that havent even cleared content like turn 9 go on saying the accuracy cap is 100% needed for a bard. Crit is an RNG stat that does 0 absolute damage. It is just pure RNG.

If you miss an attack as a bard, who cares, keep firing. You require no positional requirements.

It is not. the only ones besides a tank that need the accuracy cap are the melee dps. They cannot afford to lose a combo chain.

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1% is 1 critical hit out of 100 non-crits. That to me is a significant number. Of course I am also a person who plays games of chance, as such I can fully appreciate the facts and figures involved in this matter. The higher your percentile of Critical Hit Rating, the more critical hits out of every 100 attacks you will actually achieve. The closer you are to 99% the better your odds of getting a significant number of bloodletters. So excuse me if I want to optimize both my base damage and my critical hit rate. Your build is not optimized. It has been pointed out to me that my build wasn't optimized either, and I have since corrected that error.

Also, missing an attack as a DPS class means that you have missed one of your attacks per second. While you may not care about this as much, I come from the game Perfect World International where Attacks Per Second is vastly more important than Damage Per Second. So I personally prefer to optimize my chances of hitting my target as much as possible. The Bard may not have a positional requirement, but their optimal firing position is from the flank of the enemy.

If Crit were an RNG stat that didn't matter, then why is Bloodletter tied to the Crit Rate of your Damage over Time effects? Are you saying you could do just as much DPS without making use of the Bloodletter skill? Because that is what it sounds like you are claiming here.

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Originally Posted by Drakuaza

472 was the accuracy cap for bard in turn 5. 472 was perfect for t6. Following this trend, 491 is already for turn 9 for bard. t10 will need you to have 491 and T13 will eventually make you go for 515.

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There is absolutely no bloody way you can know that for certain.

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Originally Posted by Drakuaza

472 was the accuracy cap for bard in turn 5. 472 was perfect for t6. Following this trend, 491 is already for turn 9 for bard. t10 will need you to have 491 and T13 will eventually make you go for 515.

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I prefer to be prepared for attacking things from the front if need be. Lord knows if they'll throw us something like t4 again with the rooks or something like the bees in t6 that aren't garunteed flank/rear attack spots.

If I test a lower acc cap than 515 I can simply swap to black truffle risotto and swap the neck like you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

Thing

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FFXIV is a different game entirely. You can't go and compare FFXIV to another mmo. not even to 1.0.
Missing 1 hit in 100 is irrelevant when your other attacks are already doing more damage to cover it.

I am one of the bards in my fc with plenty turn 9 kills and all the gear at their disposal since 2.0 to run tests, which I have done since launch. to confirm such. Accuracy is pointless. Back in the day when people were saying everyone must have 485 accuracy for turn 5, I was already going in there with my elfin bow at 460 accuracy crushing any other bard in that fight.

Well to say its pointless is reaching too far, its important, but my point is, having 98% accuracy wont make the WORLD end.

It applies now as well.
One of the bards in my group, since we dual bard on t9 because we solo tank.

One runs det/crit with lower accuracy cap.

One runs with accuracy cap with skillspeed.

THe one with skillspeed comes always with the same numbers.

THe one with crit comes sometimes higher. or lower. CRIT is an RNG and must be prioritized after DET. Bard must reach a threshold of 500% crit to achieve 30% crit rate. anything over that is wasted and is better of spent on stats like determination.
Hence why the best in slot build going around that does not include the novus weapon for obvious reason, Novus will never beat HA.

Uses the HA pants over the Soldery pants, because with the pants, it manages to reach 499 crit which puts you at 29,9% crit rate.

The Crit/Det the bard with lower acc has, is affected by RNG with crit. not Accuracy.

That bard BARELY misses, 1 or 2 hits during the 10 minute fight. Yet the numbers vary a lot.

When you go crit you specifically have to acknowledge its RNG. If RNG favors you, it will destroy any other build. If it doesn't. Bards with other builds will come on top.

Most damage dealt as a Bard, comes from your DoTs and bloodletter procs. Heavy Shot does slightly more dps than Misery's End, Blunt Arrow & Repel shot.

Thats why skillspeed and critical are equally good as a substat. Skillspeed allows you to fire more heavy shots to make up for the lack of crit, Skillspeed is a real dps increase. so your damage across the board will be stable. Crit is a non-real damage added. Meaning, some fights you will come higher and others lower. Because you are relying on a number that does not increase your damage output permanentely.

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Originally Posted by Hybris-Maenad

thing

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I run t9 with 485 accuracy and I only have 1 or 2 misses during the entire 10 minute fight. And there are times when I attack from the front.




off topic: i have to keep editing my post so I can type past the post character limit and not flood with different replies.

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Originally Posted by Drakuaza

FFXIV is a different game entirely. You can't go and compare FFXIV to another mmo. not even to 1.0.
Missing 1 hit in 100 is irrelevant when your other attacks are already doing more damage to cover it.

I am one of the bards in my fc with plenty turn 9 kills and all the gear at their disposal since 2.0 to run tests, which I have done since launch. to confirm such. Accuracy is pointless. Back in the day when people were saying everyone must have 485 accuracy for turn 5, I was already going in there with my elfin bow at 460 accuracy crushing any other bard in that fight.
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Clearing t9 has nothing to do with mathing out the BIS pieces so it's largely irrelevant.

Excluding Accuracy Auroral Earrings and High Allagan Earrings have identical Dex, so we're really only looking at the second stats here 13 crit vs 19 skill speed. Current stat weights I believe are .315 for crit and .146 for skill speed making Auroral Clearly the better choice. The additional accuracy also allows us to drop acc elsewhere and still be over cap. Depending on what the Ramuh rings end up looking like after they hit i110 one of these two will most likely be the BIS.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTSI

or

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NTSJ

Comes down to composition of your group also, tp will be a issue if dps is slower than normal.

You only need around 491 for T9 so i would like crit.
I may even leave acc out of my Novus when i am ready for it.
Acc is overated a little ;)

515 is front accuracy cap and in t9, you will be attacking from the front. So, unless you have more than 515, your accuracy is not too high.

accuracy is important in my opinion. cant stress enough how many times I lost aggro on blue golem because of missing. Good thing I've never missed blunt arrow