Dungeons With an Emphasis on Puzzles and Traps?

Am I the only one who would love a dungeon or two with an emphasis on these things?

I haven't played every Final Fantasy game, but those that I have played have had some kind of puzzle element (Cloister of Trials, for example)


Starting out with puzzles.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see dungeons with puzzles that are required to finish to proceed.
Puzzles that require each player to do certain actions/interact with certain objects to complete.

It would add a very nice change of pace from the usual run to trash , flare trash, run to boss, run to more trash, flare ALL the things, finish dungeon.
It does get kind of tiresome after a while.

Adding puzzles would be great, in my opinion. Actual puzzles, not the silliness from Qarn which is just "This pedestal has a picture of a helmet, which item will you use? The fruit, helmet or flame?!?!".
Yeah...Real brain teaser.

To prevent the puzzles becoming boring and easy, the solution could be randomized each time you enter. Stopping puzzle speedrunning
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Now, on to traps.

Actual traps, not just a extremely obvious spike hanging on the room (Looking at you, halatali)
You know, traps that are there to guard valuable items.
Traps that you can easily miss if you are not paying attention.

You know, you see a long hallway with a large chest at the end of it.
You won't know it your first time there, but that hallway is laden with traps.
Spike pits, fire spitters, false floors, *insert another generic trap here*. The possibilities are only barred by your imagination.

And, not traps that give a telegraph.
"Oh, you made a mistake! Here, have 3 seconds to avoid this glowing orange circle"
Proper traps should be "Oh, you didn't see that this trap was here? Here, have a fireball to the face".
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What do you think about puzzles and traps in dungeons?

Maybe I'm just sick of running from trash group to trash group, to boss.
Sure, each boss and environment is different, but boil them down to the bare basics, and each dungeon is essentially the same routine.

I'd be for this. After all, solving puzzles is what true gentlemen strive for.

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Originally Posted by Sergy

Trolls will just activate those traps and spoil everyone's day. Good job.

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Can't deny the addition of potentially fun content just because of the chance that trolls will make it tougher.

Trolls are gonna troll, no matter what is in a particular dungeon.

If they could pull it off well, I'd be all for it. It would definitely require some randomization and complexity so it takes a little more than one or two decisions to get it right. The level of complexity I'm vaguely imagining is one where you can figure it out with a little bit of logical thought, or have a fair-sized chart open on a wiki somewhere. Not something you can flat-out memorize with a few runs and then blaze through.

A long series of very small puzzles would be cool. So would a few larger, more complicated ones. Preferably something where coordination & communication are necessary (e.g. each player gets a clue for what another player has to do, so you all have to talk to each other; but simple things that can be auto-translated).

Traps, I dunno. I think I'd personally find them more annoying than fun. But it depends on how they're implemented, too.

Well, Sunken temple of Qarn has a "puzzle" - icons drawn on columns that show which item you need to use to activate that exact column. Some people notice it or just use Google to find out how to "solve the riddle" while others just avoid this "very hard puzzle stuff". If SE impement something more advanced than Qarn then it still will most likely have a guide in day one while there will be sea of "this is ridiculous" posts on forums from people that don't bother to read or watch guides nor are capable to solve the "puzzle".
The trap thing. If they add traps that doesn't stop your progress by any means (for example, somebody die by triggering a trap and just respawn or get ressed then continue further) then they will be just another boring and kind of useless thing that just make dungeon more annoying each time you repeat it. If they add traps that can literally stop your progress in any way - sea of tears in forums again "I am leaving this game", "This have gone too far", "A petition to remove trap" etc.
They could make it so that traps don't stop your progress but you might lose the loot in dungeon but that will be another reason for massive QQ.

The bear traps in Hullbreaker still catch people all the time, despite how long it's been available. People still mess up Diabolos too.

What would be fun though, is if the next level of Crystal Tower employed something like the Phoenix Cave and Kefka's Tower from FF6, where the parties have to open paths for each other.

I wouldn't mind something like FFX's Cloister of Trials. For XIV, the transporting mechanic can be used while the rest of the party defends (perhaps adds could spawn randomly, or on set timers - not to encourage speed runs, that is). Or the penalty for missteps in the puzzle is add spawns, environmental debuffs (electrocution, dropsy, etc.) Hidden treasures (or even unhidden maps?) would be nice too, but they'd HAVE to be worth pursuing. No filtered water or hardened sap, please.

Overall, a puzzle/trap dungeon would be a nice change from the normal gauntlet :)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I wouldn't mind something like FFX's Cloister of Trials. For XIV, the transporting mechanic can be used while the rest of the party defends (perhaps adds could spawn randomly, or on set timers - not to encourage speed runs, that is). Or the penalty for missteps in the puzzle is add spawns, environmental debuffs (electrocution, dropsy, etc.) Hidden treasures (or even unhidden maps?) would be nice too, but they'd HAVE to be worth pursuing. No filtered water or hardened sap, please.

Overall, a puzzle/trap dungeon would be a nice change from the normal gauntlet :)

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I love this idea!

More along the line of crystal tower...loved how you had to work together solving the mechanics of how to progress to the final boss.

We will never get anything more complex than what we have now. Square at some point (forgot where exactly, probably a live letter) was asked if they would do something more complicated for the multi man raids and they said that they don't want to add anything too complex because it's difficult to get 24 random players to be in sync with each other in execution and planning.

I love for this to happen, but does the community have the patience to clear them? Anyone who has done endgame content knows that 95% (random number out of hat of wonders) read the tactics of the dungeon online and want to finish it as soon as possible aka speedrunning.

Only way I can see people enjoying this dungeon is playing with likeminded puzzle fans or with FC members, because using the duty finder will only result in speedrunning and verbal abuse.

I would love, at least, a jumping dungeon. Maybe the puzzle thing became obsolet the moment u google it and find a guide, but jumping skills would be diferent, if u are just a bad jumper (wich is normally my case, but i enjoy it anyway), then it's ur problem.

There's ppl who are not going to do a dungeon because it have a trap, or u can die while jumping? obviusly yes, but they will have tons of linear pummel-pummel dungeons. Ppl asking for a diferent type of dungeon don't have the choice.

SE is giving us a Qarn HM in 2.4, I'm sure that should have something tricky/trappy to entertain us for the first couple runs

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Originally Posted by Sergy

Trolls will just activate those traps and spoil everyone's day. Good job.

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Trolls will pull random monsters all over or grab hate or do other annoying things in regular dungeons. Whats the difference? =p

I'd love to see a puzzle dungeon - make people work together in more than just flash, smack, heal - sort of like some of the raid scenarios (Syrcus, etc) but on a smaller (maybe slower paced) Light Party condition

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Originally Posted by Laerune

using the duty finder will only result in speedrunning and verbal abuse.

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Too true :(
Unless they make a separate puzzle dungeon duty finder (separate from beginner/expert/main story/trials/hest roulettes...), maybe? Or just no roulette/adv in need for it at all (so no one will unwillingly get caught up in it)... then possibly no one will run it JUST for the sake of the rewards....? In that sense, players who actually want to do it for the fun of it (or maybe completion award) would just have to manually/willingly select it to run it.

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Originally Posted by point09micron

The bear traps in Hullbreaker still catch people all the time, despite how long it's been available. People still mess up Diabolos too.

What would be fun though, is if the next level of Crystal Tower employed something like the Phoenix Cave and Kefka's Tower from FF6, where the parties have to open paths for each other.

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I like that idea o_O Though some groups may end up waiting for a looooong time if their passage opening ally isn't going very well x_x But it sounds like a good change of pace :D

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Originally Posted by point09micron

What would be fun though, is if the next level of Crystal Tower employed something like the Phoenix Cave and Kefka's Tower from FF6, where the parties have to open paths for each other.

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This is what the next level of Crystal Tower needs and the Atomos battle is the only thing that comes close. My experience with both CT raids is that all 3 parties tend to blend together into a mush for most of the fights, leaving some of my party members far from me(I play whm). Since I need to keep the tank alive I tend to leave these stragglers to their own and focus on my job. If each party is forced to go their own path then my party members will more than likely stay with the party.

Unfortunately I fear that SE is correct that trying to put 24 ppl together and and expecting them to work together is just insane. A possibility could be if they tried this idea with a 16 man raid or a full party forced to split into 2 light parties to complete a dungeon.