So, you mages....

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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My Summoner has Resurrection on its Shift Hotbar. I always try and use it if the healers aren't available. (I also have swiftcast too.) On my Server of Ragnarok, people who die out in the open world usually immediately use return because they want the resurrect acheive for themselves, but don't want others to get it.

BLM can't have Raise / Resurrect.

SMN can raise people, which is highly useful. As a SMN, I always have it close to me. The healing for both classes, I mean BLM and SMN, are kinda lame and they're like a "desperate maneuver" if the healer DIES and you need to buy some time. Skills that are a must for these classes, imo, are eye for an eye and virus. They help to support the healer and help the tank to mitigate damage. Being DPS doesn't mean that you ONLY have to nuke stuff, if you have support skills that can save the party, improve its performance, enhace its survivability and avoid a wipe: Use them.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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Stop running in circles so I can target you? ;p

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Stop running in circles so I can target you? ;p

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Indeed. Archers often forget that if they go too far out of the conial field of view, mages can't do anything (Especially BLMs.) Heals still work regardless unless the person dies, but kiting mobs around in circles is silly.

In what circumstance? If I'm in a hunt & you're not in my party, you are SOL until it's dead.

I do like to engage in the mass resurrection after Odin though :) So many bodies...

If I'm playing on a healer, and the bard/archer has died due to pulling aggro and running around instead of taking the mobs to the tank, i'm not wasting the MP. You lay there and think about what you did wrong.

Acting less smug will raise your chances in me keeping you alive.

If I have to heal as a black mage, you're doing it wrong. O.o

Because as a Black Mage, I don't have a raise, and my physic does 500~ a heal. If you need me to heal you, you and the healer better step your game up.

I main whm/sch and I have been seeing a lot of really bad, lazy healers in decent gear lately (via hunts even some ha). Regen, medica ii before pull. Stoneskin instead of healing a near death person so as to continue to dps without stance dancing. Holy spam letting people die instead of healing. Aero/bio pulling. Not managing pets who spam abilities for no apparent reason. No swiftcast rez. And so on....I'm guessing these are off classes for people who don't want to wait in dps queues :S really the worst though is the amount of healers dpsing like it's their primary role instead of keeping the party up. There are way more bad stance dancers than anything else. The irony is they are trying to speed up the run but actually end up slowing it down with their ineffectiveness.

I'll consider it if you promise to use Requiem.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

I'll consider it if you promise to use Requiem.

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And not use it before pulling.

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Originally Posted by echoica

I main whm/sch and I have been seeing a lot of really bad, lazy healers in decent gear lately (via hunts even some ha). Regen, medica ii before pull. Stoneskin instead of healing a near death person so as to continue to dps without stance dancing. Holy spam letting people die instead of healing. Aero/bio pulling. Not managing pets who spam abilities for no apparent reason. No swiftcast rez. And so on....I'm guessing these are off classes for people who don't want to wait in dps queues :S really the worst though is the amount of healers dpsing like it's their primary role instead of keeping the party up. There are way more bad stance dancers than anything else. The irony is they are trying to speed up the run but actually end up slowing it down with their ineffectiveness.

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I am guessing you are new to hunts.

No, why would you say that?

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Originally Posted by echoica

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Hm, depends on the healer. I love healers that DPS a lot, just take care of your MP and be cool. I don't need to be HP top'd at all, as long as I don't die, that's enough. I have yet to find a terribad healer as the one you described, the one that DPS and they let their party die. They might be quite rare or, if that happened, it was possibly an accident. Reference: I play both healer and tank.

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Originally Posted by echoica

No, why would you say that?

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I think you read me wrong I meant upgraded gear from doing hunts not running hunts. I'm talking about doing those things in dungeons :P

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Hm, depends on the healer. I love healers that DPS a lot, just take care of your MP and be cool. I don't need to be HP top'd at all, as long as I don't die, that's enough. I have yet to find a terribad healer as the one you described, the one that DPS and they let their party die. They might be quite rare or, if that happened, it was possibly an accident. Reference: I play both healer and tank.

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Maybe I'm unlucky I see it all the time running high and expert roulette as dps with my boyfriend tanking... I like to take a break from healing from time to time xP

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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Nice try. Lunch break, I guess?

I haven't seen it often, but I haven't been in any party that requires it. So correlation/causation I guess.

What would be nice to see more regularly however, is monks that actually use mantra.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

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Why did you die in the first place?

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Originally Posted by echoica

I think you read me wrong I meant upgraded gear from doing hunts not running hunts. I'm talking about doing those things in dungeons :P

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OMG, people do that in dungeons?? Yeah, I totally thought you were complaining that healers do that while hunting.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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As a WHM I get to use one spell every 2.5 seconds. That spell has a 2 second or so lead time, plus I also have to dodge. Res is very expensive and if you're going to have brink of death, it's probably not worth me spending 768+266+133 MP minimum (not to mention all those GCDs) to get you back on your feet, just to die again.

Now your turn. What's the story with your dodging and pulling aggro? Can you not see the ground circles and hate meters or are you just not interested in staying alive? :P

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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As a Black Mage, it is the sad truth that no matter how much fire and ice I cast at your sleeping form, you won't wake up. Eventually the smell gets to people, though, especially after a lot of Firestarter inspired Fire III bursts.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises?

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We're just waiting for ballad.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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.

The main stat for SMN and BLM is intelligence, not mind. I have physick on my hotbars for both jobs but it's not wise to rely on us for healing due to the low potency of our heals. BLM can't cross class any raise spells so there's that.

On WHM or SCH if I'm not healing you it's probably because you're a bard and running around like a chicken with your head cut off (aka kiting) and I can't target you. Also I have names turned off so sometimes I just don't notice dead people.

This of course is in the outside world. In dungeons you're in my party so I'll be healing. Unless we're in Alliance A for Scylla, in which case I'm probably frozen.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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I'm not wasting my limited mana on a raise every time you die.

If we all wipe I'm not running back and raising you. Move your lazy arse.

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Originally Posted by lyricmacabre

On a side note: I LOVE summoners that go out of their way to raise people.

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Ooh then i would get commendations? :)
I have raise on my hotbar as summoner and do raise players to help out

@Echoica

I know exactly what you mean, I see this all the time when I am tanking ex roulette and it can be very frustrating.

I don't mind if a healer goes cleric stance and dpses as long as they are not slacking on their primary role. If my health is constantly dropping to around 10% in a fight and I'm having to pop all my defensive CD's to just stay alive during a trash pull, there is a problem.

Also I am really starting to get sick of WHM's that use Fluid Aura to knock back the primary target mob that I am tanking and have aggro on. Don't make the melee tank chase targets, part of our job is positioning targets and knocking them away makes that part of our job more difficult.

This also tends to lead to my favorite tanking situation, where I have a whm spamming holy and the two dps are single targeting different mobs, neither of which are the mob that I marked as he primary target to focus on.

Another thing that I feel more healers and dps need to realize is that a tank popping CD's takes away from their time to build agro. When a CD is used your character plays an animation and if you are popping more than one it plays them back to back, so if you are popping 2 together such as FoF and Bloodbath, together the time lost is approx around 2 or so seconds which equates to a gcd cycle which is one less flash or other aggro gainer going out. Most of the time this will not be an issue, by it should still be taken into consideration, especially during the initial part of a pull/fight.

As for rezzes in dungeons, if it is after a fight I don't think it is a big deal since sometimes it is more quick or efficient to just return and run back to the group.

Really its not just clueless or lazy high ilvl healers that I run into, but every role and you better not not question anyone on why they are or are not doing something that is obviously not working because then you get labeled as an "elitist douche" and are told to "stfu" because they "know what they are doing".

/end rant

p.s. isn't this thread more appropriate for the Healers section of the forums?

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

@Echoica

I know exactly what you mean, I see this all the time when I am tanking ex roulette and it can be very frustrating.

I don't mind if a healer goes cleric stance and dpses as long as they are not slacking on their primary role. If my health is constantly dropping to around 10% in a fight and I'm having to pop all my defensive CD's to just stay alive during a trash pull, there is a problem.

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Why? There's no problem unless one of you die. Are you implying using your defensive cooldowns will slow down the run?

If the run ends with no casualties and no slow downs due to a healer's behavior then that is all that matters. Whether you dropped to 1% or stood at 100% all the time is irrelevant as long as no delays were introduced. As far as I know, using defensive cooldows won't introduce any delay.

It seems to me the rant is about you feeling uncomfortable and quite honestly, that's mostly your problem.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

This also tends to lead to my favorite tanking situation, where I have a whm spamming holy and the two dps are single targeting different mobs, neither of which are the mob that I marked as he primary target to focus on.

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We still do that focus thing?

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On another note, I have a hard time understanding these arguments. The game has pretty much no situations where this is relevant. All roulette dungeons and trials are faceroll easy and the few hard challenges are beyond these petty complains.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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You hit it on the head, I don't want to heal, and I don't have either raise spell available to me. If you want to see why, play as archer (not bard) for a while with Cure/Physick as one of your cross class skills and try to do some healing.

ps - if you are pulling hate while standing at a distance from the tank, I'm cheering for the mob to kill you anyway.

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Whats the story with your heals and raises? Do you guys not have them on your bar or are you just not interested in healing or raising people?

Enlighten me:)

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Stop pulling before the tank then I might give you a heal :3

As a black mage I'm too busy out dpsing you while properly maintaining my emnity level to waste MP and DPS uptime to heal anyone with a 513 physick spell cross classed.

If you are a DPS and you are dying to mechanics it's really not other peoples fault if you aren't raised quickly or not being healed if you are taking unnecessary damage. If you are a tank and not being healed enough during encounters then... Take that up with your healer, you really don't want a 500ish physick spell from a cross class job when you are potentially getting hit with attacks that do from 3-4K in some fights.

Give me a mount for randomly raising people not in FC/LS/Friends list. 500 raise

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Originally Posted by lyricmacabre

On a side note: I LOVE summoners that go out of their way to raise people.

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Getting my relic on smn involved me raising a healer in ifrit hm ( both were dead ). It IS an incredible bonus to have, but really, it's 9/10 times only gonna save the day in a forgiving situation, such as a hm primal. It's also easy peasy MP wise for a smn to raise, sure it will hurt his dps to use energy drain, but better a smn hurts his dps than a sch wastes aetherflow on energy drain to sort mp, and whm raising.....hurts xc

As for heal, if it gets that bad, it's pretty much wipe. It's like asking why paladins don't heal themselves. But I guess, if a healer was dead, and the other was up to his eyeballs healing tank and dps, the smn could help out by healing the healier a little or even himself.

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Originally Posted by Iriadysa

Why? There's no problem unless one of you die.

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And a tank running on the ragged edge of death for a fight is asking for a wipe. How dense can someone be?

A fully healed tank can pick up unexpected adds without worrying about the sudden boost to the damage they are taking, whereas a tank around 10% could be nearly insta-killed by those same adds.

Your logic fails to look beyond the "nothing unexpected will happen" attitude.

And I'm sure we're all glad everything for you is faceroll easy and never has hiccups or bumps to cope with. I'd be pretty bored if it were me, but if its how you like things, then I guess enjoy.

I main WHM, and my tanks stay healed, and, surprisingly... alive... even when shit happens due to something unexpected. If you're the healer, and dps'ing while the tank sits at 10-25% of his health, you've got no business being a healer imho. (and I'm betting plenty of tanks would agree).

Pull ahead of tank, afk, stand in every aoe, don't listen to marks and I suddenly forget how to heal you...

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Originally Posted by Maero

Ooh then i would get commendations? :)
I have raise on my hotbar as summoner and do raise players to help out

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Nope. You still wouldn't usually. if you want to commendate farm, use guildhests as a Scholar from the first guildhest up to more than a feeler. Scholars are super OP in low level.

@Iriadysa

Yes, me having to pop all my cooldowns in a single pull can slow down the run as a whole. I pace out my CD's to try to minimize the amount of healing necessary per pull which should then hopefully allow the healer to be able to maximize their dps, resulting in the mobs going down faster. If I am left with no CD's to use for 2-3 pulls that can potentially slow things down overall.

I also don't need my HP at 100% when I am tanking, even it hovering a bit below 50% most of the time is fine. When it is as low as 10% most of the time that leaves far too little flex room for a healer to react in most cases and get off a heal if something like a crit lands and yes this situation has resulted in me dying a number of times, to which the usual healer reaction has been something along the line of "lol, I forgot to heal".

Yes some people still do mark and I feel it is a good habit to be in when doing df or pug's since you don't know the skill level of the players you are being put with. By default I start with marking, if the group seems to know what they are doing I stop, otherwise I continue. It takes me no time to do since I mark while running to the next group so there is no good reason to not mark.

Yes, the roulette dungeons are super easy yet still I get put in parties that somehow manage to wipe in them because people do things that they shouldn't like aoe'ing the adds on the archer boss in Tam Tara HM, this has happened to me the last 2 times I have run the dungeon. So just because the dungeons are easy to those that know them, that still doesn't mean that people don't screw up in them or just plain don't know what they are doing even though they have said they do.

Lastly, calling my opinions on my recent experiences using the df as petty and insinuating that my statements are irrelevant and that I don't know what I am doing as a tank is completely uncalled for. These are my opinions based upon my experiences, just because you might have been more lucky and not dealt with stuff like this does not invalidate what I have said.