Summoner vs. Black Mage in frontlines

Sorry, I know this is my second thread in like two days, but I'm now trying to do some research for my partner who is currently at work and I'm trying to save him some time.

He usually plays summoner in everything, however I told him it's probably a good idea to roll another class in PvP due to the fact that he will likely want to redo all his stats and bars and won't want to have to constantly change it all. So the question we'd like to ask is if summoner or black mage is better for PvP in frontlines.

Thank you very much

I have both black mage and summoner, and in non-PVP I love playing both. However, in Frontlines, I much prefer summoner. For a few reasons . . .

Number one, black mages are generally the second target by your opponents (after the healers) due to their powerful attacks, Flare and multiple sleep abilities.

Number two, black mages only main instant-cast-while-moving (non-PVP) attack skill is Scathe. Summoners have Ruin II, Miasma II, Bio, Energy Drain, Fester and Bane. In addition, even if you're having to move fast, your pet keeps attacking. Plus, Miasma and Miasma II also reduce healing on the target.

Just my personal opinion.

SMN is very mobile in pvp.. SMN has better chance to survive in 1 vs 1, but for BLM, it's a bit hard for BLM.. when u need to chase ur target or attacking without interuption while moving= bio, ruin 2, energy drain + plus ur pet attack.. but for BLM u only has Scathe..

From what I've read here and on my own, summoner is the way to go due to having more meaningful instant casts.

Thanks everyone, that helps a whole lot.

BLM also have Swiftcast FIII, Surecast FI, TB and Fire III procs, Nightwing, and Phantom Dart. Its harder to play vs a good opponent but nothing I'd turn my eyes from. If he's use to SMN though, prolly a good idea to stick with the muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Abrar

but for BLM u only has Scathe..

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"Only Scathe" is better than you think. I have soloed a BRD by the skin of my teeth with nothing but Phantom Dart and Scathe spam.

So much 1v1 perspective on this thread. BLMs who know how to Flare crowds are glorious.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

So much 1v1 perspective on this thread. BLMs who know how to Flare crowds are glorious.

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Crowds that cluster enough for a BLM to Flare (or aren't harassing the BLM in the first place) are glorious....ly bad.

In Wolf's Den the kill priority was so much simpler as you would never face either a BLM or a SMN at the same time. People still prioritize BLMs just for sleep but in reality they should be going for SMNs first due to the massive damage they can pump out along with status afflictions. Healers either have to heal through the dots or esuna them off and both drains MP really quickly, especially if you've Bane'd and there are 4 people losing HP fast.

Anyway, just from my perspective I think SMNs are crazy good, especially with Eye for an Eye and Virus. I've killed people without my egi helping for goodness sake. But I don't mind that people ignore me while I wreck havoc among their team :rolleyes:

As said from other up to now (in my opinion) summoner are less targetted,
probably because their DoTs aren't so showy as a Flare or a Fire III.

Don't be attacked in Frontline is really gorgeous for caster because of interruptions,
but remember that BLM has Manawall and manaward, that can protect u,
and if someone is stalker u untill your death u can Sleep him or use Lethargy (even if it was nerfed ._.)

Anyway I play both when I'm not SCH :D
Both or them are funny and I don't think that one is better then other.

Ps. BLM can also distance bind with Freeze or Sleep + LB
SMN has Tridisaster but If i'm not wong it has a really little radious.

people dont realize how powerful SMN dots in PvP.. for three dots = more than 2k damage + bane = spread to nearby members.. bcoz the dots are not really 'noticeable', so people dont realize it.. therefore, SMN is 'silent killer' in PvP.. i hit more than 100k damage in frontline with my SMN..

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Originally Posted by Abrar

people dont realize how powerful SMN dots in PvP.. for three dots = more than 2k damage + bane = spread to nearby members.. bcoz the dots are not really 'noticeable', so people dont realize it.. therefore, SMN is 'silent killer' in PvP.. i hit more than 100k damage in frontline with my SMN..

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Haha I call this the Bard Suicide Bomb because it's the class where I have the most successful outcomes using this. I can hear them now as Garuda chases them back to their group at the flag: 'help! help! help! BOOM!!!' I typically keep everything I do and the ways I've macro'd things to myself and ppl I know on my GC but any decent Summoner would know to do this and it's already out of the bag.

Re: orig post it's not a bit deal to have multiple crossbar setups, I have a PVP and PVE version of bar 1 and 2 for SMN, SCH, BRD jobs. The PVE and PVE versions are all copied back to the Classes. SMN and SCH share a class so example is a little more complex, so look at it this way- BARD can have bar 1 and 2 for PVE copied to ARC 1 and 2, then update BRD 1 and 2 for PVP and copy to ARC 3, 4. You copy with this command:

/crosshotbar copy BRD 1 ARC 1
For all the ones you back up on the class, and this is a one-time step unless u want to make future tweaks.

Then u need a PVE -> PVP macro and a PVP -> PVE macro that copies the right classes to the right places for the situation. Those two macros work for ALL the classes I use in Frontlines, you can be on BLM and copy ACN 3 to SMN 1 for example. A spell not usable on SMN can still be copied to ACN so that's not a challenge.

there's absolutely no question for frontlines blm>smn.

1.the only arguement for smn>blm is that they don't get targetted... because they aren't a threat... this is not a valid arguement, being a threat is what defines wich class is more effective is it not? on my blm i can spam sleep/freeze without even dps'ing and be a greater factor than 2 smn's by mitigating more dmg than they are doing. while i'm doing this i can also drop bombs.

2. dmg measured in pvp is different than dmg measured in pve(current content) dot's and sustained dmg are the true measure of a dps pve hands down smn kicks my ass all day no arguement from me, however in frontlines sustained dmg is not as important as burst dmg because it is more difficult/impossible to mitigate.

3. 1v1... LMFAO go away

Stacking blms is the best way to win any fight with 3 or more healers. A group of skilled blms will have healers down way faster then any other class. Not that other dps can't do it. Its just faster and allows to maybe push from one flag to OP and then back.

But if you don't like being targeted and dependent on heals blm is not for you. In fact some matches blms must be marked as one. They get focused before healers. A lot of healers are wearing tanking gear. But blms still need to wear dps gear. Or at least there hps suggest they are.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

Stacking blms is the best way to win any fight with 3 or more healers. A group of skilled blms will have healers down way faster then any other class. Not that other dps can't do it. Its just faster and allows to maybe push from one flag to OP and then back.

But if you don't like being targeted and dependent on heals blm is not for you. In fact some matches blms must be marked as one. They get focused before healers. A lot of healers are wearing tanking gear. But blms still need to wear dps gear. Or at least there hps suggest they are.

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yep if you start crowd controlling with sleep/freeze you are the tank people really hate getting slept/bound it generates genuine enmity strongly suggest if you are using blm for frontlines only to respec vit>int and eat tank food get to about 5k hp. if you can't then i wouldn't recomend crowd control unless you have a really good sch* with you to mitigate