DRG not using heavy thrust? MNK not positionning

Hello everyone,

I play PLD and WHM main but I leveled all jobs in order to know what dps are requiring from tank apart the obvious get and keep agro. And so I try to not move mobs a lot to let DRG and MNK position easily and stay up in their rotation.

But nowadays, I see more and more DRG not using heavy thrust and MNK not moving at all (even some striking from front of mobs). I know all content is easy and all and you will succeed whatever you doing in dungeon or trials apart coil. When I ask why they not using / positioning, I get the following answers :

- I know how to play my class better than you stupid tank (majority)
- I dont find it that great
- I'm lazy

Now why people play dps classes if it's not to pull out big numbers ? and even if content is easy, gaining some time and going smoothly in a fight is more fun than struggling with the healer to keep tank alive cause fight is uber long.

So please read some guide and have some honor about being an efficient dps !

Playing as DPS can be stressful at times. Mobs don't die fast dps's fault, adds bum rushing healer dps's fault, oh Jesus I've ran out festers on the add phase of TT HM and we often get blamed for pulling even if it's the tank being useless and doesn't know what flash is (I pulled using bane once ><).

But I do agree as I'm playing healer now that it's equally stressful and I've played tank too on an alt to 30 and that's also stressful.

But unfortunately theres nothing we can do about stupid people.

You played a tank, right?
Some times people did suck and single minded on what they did. I sometime plays as SCH and partied with SMN that take out Titan out of the blue when I ask why, he told me he felt like using titian, That's all!! We survived the dungeon at least, so I kept my ranting. Don't waste your head with those who tried to troll you around it's not worth!

As DRG I sometimes not start with HT if I did judge that the target will die too fast that buff your damage 15% don't worth it. May be this will be the reason for monk who did not want to position too. Positioning is a frustrating method especially when the target do not stand still, so, if it gonna die real fast, it may not even need to position just stab or punch is good enough

In short, people are bad.

The most common reasons i have found are:
- They are very casual and didnt bother to read their tooltips properly/think its not worth it
- Melee is not their main class and they dont know how to play one (used to playing heal/tank/ranged dps only)
- Bad experience with early lvl tanks who spin the mobs, so gave up with positioning altogether in dungeons
- Just lazy

well, my main class is monk, and whenever i tank and see a monk not moving at all i ask why.
so far i always got the same response:

...

Sometimes they started positioning after that, but most of the time they didn't

Depends on the fight,but yes,you are correct,Heavy thrust would be a nessecity in long(er) fights,I personally only used it whenever applicable (ex. there isn't AoE spam from the boss in flank areas,etc) But I'll try to use it more often! :) (I use all my combos,DoTs,etc just fine except this one skill,untill you pointed it out! :o) Time to do some research on rotations,etc xD

(to clarify,initially I thought the 15% dmg boost was only for the specified move for 1 attack,suffice to say that I feel stupid now...)

Thanks for bringing this issue up! :D

Hmm only now leveling MNK but basically I stopped caring for positioning on trash mobs because more often than not they will get rotated. Other than that if I can I will use positioning.

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Originally Posted by Mysi

- I'm lazy

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Yup. If you catch me not caring about flank/rear, it's because I've given up for the moment. Usually only lasts for half a dungeon (and never bosses), but it depends on how drained I am by the time I get into that dungeon. Which often depends on how frustrating the party in the last instance was.

Going full tilt 24/7 is exhausting, and easy/farm content is one of the ways I wind down.

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Originally Posted by Mysi

Now why people play dps classes if it's not to pull out big numbers ?

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Because...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mysi

- I'm lazy

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:D

I'm still learning the mad melee might. But I note the times where I don't use / refresh a positional move is when the boss is moving, turning to hit one person and then going back, and when there's a ground DoT where I would like to stand.

I think there's a lot of new players coming up the ranks and like others have said, may not have read or interpreted the tool tips to deem positional requirements to be useful.

Well 2 situations
Dps in question has not read and comprehended the tool tips (happens a lot apparently)
Due to mob movement the dmg gain of landing the positional is less than a retry if the move misses the proper side. Is moved, mainly trash fights. On drg I stun something to make sure it will not move during positionals, but that is not always an option if there is a specific move that needs to be stopped or both stuns are down.

Just want to second/third what other people say about players not reading the tooltip but also... some of the tooltips are really unhelpful: see Provoke, Impulse Drive (doesn't say the positional is mandatory for the combo, which is not how it works on MNK) etc.

As a DPS main whenever I see this it makes me cringe.

I have seen way too many DRGs who don't use heavy thrust. I don't really care about dungeons, but when tanking ex primals and then seeing that none of the 2 DRGs are using HT is just really sad, most times I don't get an answer when asking but once I got an answer that was like "I haven't used that skill since low levels" as if it was a low level skill, he did say after that he would try it during the fight, used it while standing behind the boss.... and this was Garuda ex

Cure to wiping on dungeons and trials cause of derp melee --> Vote abandon

It´s Hilarious, you I can sum up all my answers here to most topics in 3 parts

1. Don´t QQ
2. Deal with it.
3. insert reason - in this case, you can encounter bad players everytime, everywhere...

It's the new form of mechanics for dpsing. I have a friend who is ilvl93 mnk that doesn't know what DK and I ask him a few more question like what does demolished do or name me our 3 forms quickly. I'm a mnk also and played it since day one. I ran with him during daily trials and it was ifrit and he did all the moves in order but it was all done n the rear. Same with drgs using rot instead of doom. It's the new way of dpsing, all the new players lov the idea of it but aren't willing to actually put any effort on getting better, some of if not all just lvl it for the idea of another lvl 50

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

It's the new way of dpsing,

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I don't know if it's that so much, to me it feels like there is less demand to really push yourself. Like all the way back, the original AK, demon wall was a bitch if you had fairly fresh 50's working for DL gear, now it's a joke. People can half-ass there way through first coil. Turn 4 used to be a major DPS check, I've one-shot it with so many first timers now it's not even funny hardly having to explain anything, and it took us a month to down originally. I suppose t5 is still challenging for some, but mainly because everything before it is a freakin cake walk. DPS get in and they say "Rotation? What's that?"

I've recently been leveling my Monk up, currently 47. I will always use optimal positions, sometimes I will lose track or go to take a drink mid-combo to and just ignoring it for a second. The only thing that makes me flat out stop using positions, and I have been seeing this a lot recently, is tanks basically running in circles. (I guess to avoid telegraphs?) This is incredibly frustrating for me on things like Brayflox. I've seen two or three recently they grab the Cockatrice or final boss and literally run around in circles instead of sitting still and avoiding the telegraph when it appears. I usually say something and ask them to stop moving unless they have to avoid a telegraph but other times I just get to the point where I say 'F it' This guy wants to make my job difficult, then I just won't try all that hard.

Mostly for me as I main DPS, it's because I'm lazy. And I almost always never go Dragoon on my roulettes and just use bard instead. It's my go to lazy class lol

ST is the WORST. Usually all 3 tanks are trying to be MT, and thus the boss is constantly spinning. This becomes exceptionally frustrating when u need 30 runs for your drop! So yh, I this situation with retarded tanks, I just apply phlebotomize, keep up HT and spam TTT. cba even trying to do ID-DI-CT.

If a drg is not pulling HT every 6to7 hits, he's not doing his job correctly. Its the same as a tank not using flash, or a healer not using protect on the group. Buff is a buff!

Just going to play devil's advocate here.

I will, when I see the opportunity and the chance to use positional moves like snap punch doing 180 POT from the flank properly, but considering some of the instances I love depend on the CR DPS already being positioned so he doesn't screw the entire or at least half the party with AOE drops, dive bombs, water bombs, weight of the land, tactics that NEED you not to do a positional hit.

I do love my class, as I main MNK, and honestly love the crap out of it, but when what I mostly do limits a bit of what I CAN do, it becomes a tiny bit of a bad habit.

It's the same in PVP as well, if you're fighting a good team in Cartineau Plateau, the other DPS will be rotating and running like mad men (Bards mostly) when a monk is up to try and beat you down, and if they're smarter, rotating to face us doing so to screw up our positional attacks. Just... half the time don't get the chance to take advantage of positional attacks.

Just now, had 2 dps, 1 monk and 1 DRG, both ilvl90 average w/ relic wpn, in haukke hard, and we couldn't get past the twins succubus. Idk how people do to play their class so bad, but sometimes i wish i could just leave a dungeon without penalty cause some people are just so bad.

Lot of melee dps is very close mind.
They don´t dodge.
They don´t read and wonder where is HT/Chaos trust combo buff come from.
They don´t listen to you.
They will not think how they die. they blame healer/lag instead.
They blame not ilvl110 yet

So if you see a drg/mnk can position and dodge make sure you send friendlist/commendations to him/her. Cause is rare to see a good drg/mnk.

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Originally Posted by OdinEon

If a drg is not pulling HT every 6to7 hits, he's not doing his job correctly. Its the same as a tank not using flash, or a healer not using protect on the group. Buff is a buff!

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This ^^

As a DRG, I can't imagine *not* having HT. Why wouldn't you?! "Hey, here's a single move you can use at any point so long as you're in a target's flank, that'll boost your damage by 15%!"...."No thanks!". wtf?

Every fight should start with this skill, and be refreshed as it's about to drop. It's not that hard. DRG only have *TWO* positional attacks - every other skill, including those chaining off the positionals, do NOT require positions. It's pretty damn easy to flank a mob, hit Heavy thrust, then quickly run 2 feet to the enemy's rear to start your ID chain, then after ID is off you can easily move wherever you like.

I've had DRG at 50 for awhile and just got MNK to 50, but I main PLD. It's kind of weird to hear that simply reading and following the tooltips on the skills makes me better at the melee dps classes than some people that main them. To clarify, I'm not referring to the people that know the skills and are just in lazymode so much as I am the people that don't even know what their skills do. I don't understand the unwillingness to read and learn how your skills work.

The only time I don't really go for positional bonuses is when the mobs are going to die too fast to make it worth it (some trash mobs in SV HM, for example, are super squishy), the tank keeps moving them (I'm seeing a rash of tanks lately that think you can run around the mob to dodge autoattacks...), or there's an aoe or other attack (cleaves, etc) preventing me from doing so. The way I see it, why pass up free damage if you don't absolutely have to? Personally, I find the repositioning kind of refreshing after how static Paladin tends to be.

I levelled drg a little while ago just to level it, I really enjoyed the class and although I know I need a lot more practice at the class to be considered good.

I never really found it hard to pick up the buff on initial pull from tank, and usually the enemy would die as the buff wears off so as I position for the next one I would automatically re-apply the buff regardless of how much time was left unless of course I was mid combo.

that being said there is certain times that its not necessary to pick it up as the enemies will die within seconds on aoe spam or just sheer focused attack from the group.

Just to throw it out there. As a Monk while corresponding positions are important, there are times when you can't hit flank or side and it's more important to keep the rotation going to maintain Greased Lightning stacks. Also note that not every player stays up on current changes. Once upon a time the Flank only Monk rotation was generally considered acceptable.

I'm a little late to this party but.....

I have a MNK main and I do actively switch positions where applicable. In my FC, I regularly party with a DRG that is SO SO good, and together mobs just fall at our feet. On trash, I will mainly utilize a Flank only positioning using DK with him there, he is using his AoE's, and I pop Internal Release at 3 stacks of GL then spam the hell outta Rockbreaker. TP gets low pop Invigorate. Mobs don't even know what hit them.

It's sad when they don't do their proper rotation. I know that I once ran with a monk that didn't move, my solution that to turn the mob itself to have it's rear facing the monk.
It's not ideal, but at least now they can kill it slightly faster...

Last night

- a lvl 50 DRG that would only use Heavy Thrust and Piercing Talon (in melee range)

- DF on AK had an awesome Monk. Toasted the Demon wall before first push. (Lvl 1 LB)

Definitely a mix of all players around.

When I'm on mnk the only times I don't go for positionals is when i can't ( leviathan, demon wall) or when it would mess up stacking (twintania snakes, titan ex) On my tanks I try to avoid spinning mobs, but sometimes I'll run a semi circle around a large pull to spread the overpower/flash love. Oh and those buffs like ht dk. I see no reason not to keep them up.

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Originally Posted by Sarynth

When I'm on mnk the only times I don't go for positionals is when i can't ( leviathan, demon wall) or when it would mess up stacking (twintania snakes, titan ex) On my tanks I try to avoid spinning mobs, but sometimes I'll run a semi circle around a large pull to spread the overpower/flash love. Oh and those buffs like ht dk. I see no reason not to keep them up.

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You can use positionals in almost all of Levi.

The tail has the backside portion :]

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

Playing as DPS can be stressful at times. Mobs don't die fast dps's fault, adds bum rushing healer dps's fault, oh Jesus I've ran out festers on the add phase of TT HM and we often get blamed for pulling even if it's the tank being useless and doesn't know what flash is (I pulled using bane once ><).

But I do agree as I'm playing healer now that it's equally stressful and I've played tank too on an alt to 30 and that's also stressful.

But unfortunately theres nothing we can do about stupid people.

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Sounds more like "people will just find a reason to blame everyone but themselves for everything."