Because everyone pays the same subscription.

This is not really a complaint, it sure is a rant.

Why? Why does this happen with almost every patch: you let some people do things easier, less grindy, faster. And then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

A few examples from the very start of ARR:

• Let a some people speed level DoW/DoM on fates. Get to 50 in a few hours. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.
  
• Let a some people cheaply speed level DoH/DoL on leves. Get to 50 in a few hours with almost no cash spend. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

It's a very long list. Let's just skip to a few examples from the latest patches:

• Let some people speed farm Ramuh Ex with Titan Egi. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.
  
• Let some people speed farm soldiers/myth/allied seals on hunts. And with that Alexandrite. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

The main rant: why is this pattern seen almost every patch?! Let a few people do things quicker, easier, cheaper and then slow the rest down? Do you guys test any of your patches before releasing them?

Did you really overlook Titan Egi tanking Ramuh Ex? Was 2.30->2.35 meant to be a speed farm period tor Animus? There is a reason why some people are allowed to do it easier than others?

Nah, propbably not. It's all coincidence and things go wrong with programming and testing. Right? Right.

Please look before releasing it. We all pay the same subscription. Keep it fair.

Actually, we don't all pay the same subscription.

There are several payment options and the longer you subscribe the more of a discount you actually get.

Not to mention there's the folks with the Legacy campaign, who pay less than everyone else.

Just saying.

You entire rant is irrelevant. of course testing is done but there is always a chance things are overlook. patches are done to FIX unintended methods to gain/slow an unintended process.
Do you really think Ramuh Egi tank should of stay when it COMPLETELY eliminates an entire class. sure u may say that u could still do it with tanks too, but lets be honest here, why bring a tank class and is 1000x* easier with EGI
Coil Turn 2 should have engrave this into your thought process, do u really think most will do normal method when it can be faceroll with enrage.

Mistakes happen, they take time to fix. I'm glad they get fixed even if it means I miss out.

It would be hard for a test team of their size to accurately measure the effects of their changes when applied to 100,000s of players from all over the world going at it (emergent effects and all).

Maybe a public test server might be the best way forward?

I wouldn't be too worried about any fast progression that certain players get from un-patched advantages though, the nature of this game means it won't be long before their rewards are out-dated. (unless they somehow managed to get millions of gil from it)

So basically, you want everything handed to you instead of having SE fix these things so that the game is actually playable for others.

Your recent list is a bit of a stretch.

Ramuh was a quick fix and for good reasons.

Hunts can still be farmed as B ranks where the "It's better then nothing" option.

Balancing fixes are part of our subscriptions

You can thank SE for not having a test server for actual players to play on, since their own internal testing is about as worthless as a pile of Moogle shit based on how many times they've scrambled to backtrack at this point.

At the rate they are going, this game is going to be nothing but a trainwreck by Christmas if not sooner.

Game balance?

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Originally Posted by eschaton

Why? Why does this happen with almost every patch: you let some people do things easier, less grindy, faster. And then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

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It happens both ways my dear...why do some people have to go though broken mechanics overly extreme restrictions to get from one thing to another then they gimp it and make it easier for everyone else a few months later?

• Used to be you had to beat all the extreme's to get to Moogle and Levi fight, now you don't have too you can just go to it.
  
• CT used to only get one drop of gear per week, now people going in can go in and get as many as they want per day.
  
• ST will probably be changed to do the same soon.
  
• AK used to have the pain in the butt bees that everyone complained about, so what they do? Remove them so now that dungeon is a joke.
  
• Etc.

Most of the things you're mentioning, if I remember correctly, were either adjustment's that weren't supposed to happen and needed to be adjusted, or were unknown errors int he game that were adjusted. It's all about balancing, we don't pay for a broken game, no mater what subscription we pay...and that being mentioned:

People don't play the same per month. If you only want 1 character per server you pay 9.99 a month, if you want 8 per server you pay 14.99. If you pay in 1, 3, or 6 month increments you get a larger discount per payment the larger the amount of time. So people in here pay anywhere from 7.99 a month to 14.99 a month. Also that doesn't count people who pay extra for buying extra retainers or have multiple accounts because more than one person in their family plays.

You've had plenty of time to take advantage of the things listed in the OP..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eschaton

• Let a some people speed level DoW/DoM on fates. Get to 50 in a few hours. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.
  
• Let a some people cheaply speed level DoH/DoL on leves. Get to 50 in a few hours with almost no cash spend. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

• Let some people speed farm Ramuh Ex with Titan Egi. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.
  
• Let some people speed farm soldiers/myth/allied seals on hunts. And with that Alexandrite. Then a patch makes sure other people can’t do it like *that*.

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FATEs are still a good way to level. They changed dungeon xp so it's just as fast. How is that bad?

DOH/DOL leves are still the best way to level crafting/gathering classes. They changed it so you get more for NQ turn-ins and HQ is about the same as it used to be. How is that bad?

Nobody does Ramuh Ex anyway, Titan or no Titan, so that complaint is irrelevant. Plus they changed it after a couple days, so it's not like anyone really had a chance to "farm" it.

A and S ranks are unchanged. I did B's because every little bit helps, but I know most people didn't care about them anyway. I like the change.

Ramuh is a total glitch, had to be fixed and it was done pretty quickly.

B Rank Hunts are being balanced for the players that don't want to join the hoard, you can still do the A and S Ranks.

From my achievements, i do about 1:10:15 [S:A:B], so 50+200+75 in terms of Seals, so B Ranks make up for about 25% of my Seals intake. that's about how many i got per day that i actually did hunts. now the 75 seal lost can be subsidized by the 32 that you can get from Dailies. yea it's a net loss, but it's not really that much, not for the way that i've done it anyway.

All your subscription does is give you the privileged to login to SE's servers. THAT IS ALL. They can do w.e they want, including deleting your character for shits and giggles. "I pay a subscription" is not an excuse or reason for any argument. The only time it can be an excuse is if it somehow falls outside of the Terms of Service that you accepted before handing over your money, which is probably very rare since SE's lawyers drafted it to cover all bases.

Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't complain if you find something wrong, SE would implement changes if they saw it was causing people to quit, but "I pay a subscription" is worth less than the virtual paper it is written on.

Well, OP I kind of understand your point but... Can't be helped...

And yes, indeed, maybe... Maybe... Things could be tested before, send some real players, that think like players, to test the stuff before released, wouldn't be a so bad idea.

But if things would be tested before but some players it would also destroy the ''surprise'' of what's next in the patches.... But... I wonder at this point, what's better? A bad surprise or not surprise at all?

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

I wonder at this point, what's better? A bad surprise or not surprise at all?

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I'd gladly sacrifice some surprises to have a working player populated test server to stop most of the unbalanced rewards, horrible gameplay mechanics and then SE either taking far too long to fix it, or making a knee-jerk reaction thats no better than the problem they are trying to fix.

It sounds like you're new to MMOs.

Sure it sounds easy on paper: test these things out first thoroughly, make sure they're all balanced and play as intended. Release a test server, even.

It doesn't play out this way. Every MMO has issues like this, even ones with test servers. People don't play on test servers the same way they do in game because that's not where their real characters are. Nobody would spend 18 hours a day for a week spamming hunts in a network of linkshells on test servers because they won't see any benefit; their main character is on X server.

In the case of hunts, SE didn't anticipate the community working together as much as they did. Again, hard to predict. They assumed people would be selfish, gather only as many of their friends/FC members as are required to kill the mob then kill it. Instead, people took the path of enlightened self-interest and shared the rewards. In so doing, increasing the rewards to all players beyond what SE has anticipated. It wasn't exploiting or breaking any rules, so it didn't require an emergency maintenance. It didn't break the economy as the rewards are all rare/ex.

SE can't anticipate what that one clever dick in the millions of people playing comes up with to circumvent their systems. They can do their best to try anticipate it, but they're never gonna succeed 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

SE can't anticipate what that one clever dick in the millions of people playing comes up with to circumvent their systems. They can do their best to try anticipate it, but they're never gonna succeed 100% of the time.

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Which is why a player populated test server has great merit.

RIFT did it and people loved playing on it to see the new stuff and to report the problems before the code got pushed to the live servers.

I was waiting for the obligatory post patch complaint/rant thread. Just like clockwork.

are you ignoring how many things theyve made easier? did you have to do brayHM speed runs for hours, just to try to get a somewhat decent amount of myth. now, theyve made it so you can hunt, get 90 gear and myth insanely easy. oh my god, they took away the rewards for B ranks! now i cant get a reward for the hunts i didnt even do in the first place! get over how they make things more challenging, and be grateful for what they are making so much easier for you

We dont ALL pay the same price for a sub.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...IV/hipster.jpg

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Which is why a player populated test server has great merit.

RIFT did it and people loved playing on it to see the new stuff and to report the problems before the code got pushed to the live servers.

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People don't play on test servers the same way they do in game because that's not where their real characters are. Nobody would spend 18 hours a day for a week spamming hunts in a network of linkshells on test servers because they won't see any benefit; their main character is on X server.

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

I was waiting for the obligatory post patch complaint/rant thread. Just like clockwork.

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Did you miss the other 50?

Except your not paying the same.
If you were paying the same as us, you would have been able to do those things when they were unbalanced.

However, if you joined after or were not paying during that time, by very definition, you have payed less.
Thanks. Cya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aegis

People don't play on test servers the same way they do in game because that's not where their real characters are. Nobody would spend 18 hours a day for a week spamming hunts in a network of linkshells on test servers because they won't see any benefit; their main character is on X server.

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There were guilds that only existed on the RIFT test server and they raided and did content like any other endgame guild.

So... just because you wouldnt.....

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Originally Posted by eschaton

snip

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There haven't ever really been adjustments to FATE XP, to my knowledge, or if there has been, it wasn't enough for me to remember or care. All they did was change how many available content options there were to level. Like upping XP gain in dungeons, adding Beast Tribes, etc.

Leves actually got FASTER leveling for DoH/DoL, so I don't know why you're spreading the misinformation that a patch lowered the XP for that. All any XP rebalance for Leves did was cut the amount of XP added for HQ and tack it onto the amount of general XP for completing the leve because not everyone can HQ everything. So instead of X amount of XP for NQ and triple that XP for HQ, it's now a higher amount of XP for NQ and double that XP for HQ.

The whole Titan-egi tanking Ramuh EX was an obvious development oversight. Any idiot could have seen that.

I never farmed anything on hunts before because I hate the entire idea of being either yelled at for attacking too soon or getting nothing for attacking too late. It's simply not fair at all.

The pattern is seen every patch because some things from Patch A usually have unexpected issues and aren't fixed until Patch B, unless it's literally gamebreaking, in which there is a special hotfix.

This whole argument makes me wonder if we shouldn't put back the gamebreaking glitch in Labyrinth where people who use Return after the Iron Giants show up in Atomos. No one else experienced being forced to duty abandon labyrinth, so why not let them? I mean, clearly your logic is infallible so that would absolutely be a good idea, amirite? Or how about removing gil drops from enemies because no one who ran them before 2.05/2.1 got any gil drops from enemies at all.

A proper test server would be nice so we paying customers don't have to do it for them.