Why are skill speed & spell speed separate stats?

These are the only two secondary stats (i'm not counting parry here) that don't effect all abilities. Why is that?

Accuracy - works on physical attacks & spells
Crit - works on physical attacks, spells & heals
Det - works on physical attacks, spells & heals
Skill speed - only physical attacks?
Spell speed - only spells?

Is there some reason for this?

Obviously it's not a huge issue, but it is weird. If they were one stat, at least the skill speed materia would be more valuable. Also, it's mildly annoying on my PLD that any gear that happens to have skill speed doesn't work on Flash, Sword Oath or Shield Oath.

Because "reasons". Probably the same "reasons" that Fisher doesn't have an offhand and no use for GP.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

Because "reasons". Probably the same "reasons" that Fisher doesn't have an offhand and no use for GP.

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The same "reasons" that they just decided to ignore damage types (elemental especially), but left all the resistances? The same "reasons" behind why they completely negate physical/magical defense (and thus negate defense-boosting skills) and remove all utility of aggro-controlling abilities in PvP yet still require a (completely worthless) tank in the party for Wolves' Den?

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

These are the only two secondary stats (i'm not counting parry here) that don't effect all abilities. Why is that?...

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I think that is just bcoz the abilities are base on TP (Weapon Skill) or MP (Magic Spell).
For example when a WAR cannot use WS, he still can cast Flash.

Skill Speed reduces the GCD and Spell Speed reduces the casting time.
Flash, sword/shield oath are instant cast spells, I think Spell Speed also no effect on them.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

The same "reasons" that they just decided to ignore damage types (elemental especially), but left all the resistances? The same "reasons" behind why they completely negate physical/magical defense (and thus negate defense-boosting skills) and remove all utility of aggro-controlling abilities in PvP yet still require a (completely worthless) tank in the party for Wolves' Den?

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Yes. Those "reasons".

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

I think that is just bcoz the abilities are base on TP (Weapon Skill) or MP (Magic Spell).
For example when a WAR cannot use WS, he still can cast Flash.

Skill Speed reduces the GCD and Spell Speed reduces the casting time.
Flash, sword/shield oath are instant cast spells, I think Spell Speed also no effect on them.

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Well, yea I get how it's working now.

I don't understand why there's not one single stat "Speed" that reduces both GCD and cast time. Every other secondary stat works on all skills, whether they're based on TP or MP.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Well, yea I get how it's working now.

I don't understand why there's not one single stat "Speed" that reduces both GCD and cast time. Every other secondary stat works on all skills, whether they're based on TP or MP.

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I think you have answered the question by mentioning Flash for example.
If flash is affected by Skill Speed, then you may cast it more frequently, apparently the system was designed to restrcit you to do that. ^^

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

I think you have answered the question by mentioning Flash for example.
If flash is affected by Skill Speed, then you may cast it more frequently, apparently the system was designed to restrcit you to do that. ^^

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Well, no, because you can still stack Spell Speed to cast Flash more frequently; it's just harder to do because tank gear tends to come with only Skill Speed. To your previous example, instant-cast spells like Aero and Scathe still benefit from the GCD reduction, so there isn't really any difference between the two stats except one is for spells and the other is for weapon skills. BRD songs are another example where they have to separate stacking between Skill Speed and Spell Speed (if they actually wanted to) to get GCD reductions on all of their abilities.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

yet still require a (completely worthless) tank in the party for Wolves' Den?

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Some tanks are pretty good in PvP. Sure there's no enmity control but PLDs do Crowd Control/Protector while Marauder are the Single Target Control/DPS

because skills are restricted by the gcd, and spells are restricted by their cast time

It might not be the reason why, but perhaps they had the same system in mind that they used in ffxi, where you had job traits like fast cast and job abilities that lowered weapon delay (and maybe in ffxiv's case, tp attacks' gcd), and then haste that would increase the speed both of those aspects at the same time. Maybe in the future we might get these types of things too, and a haste spell, that might make the separation make more sense.

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

because skills are restricted by the gcd, and spells are restricted by their cast time

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Spell speed reduces both cast time and GCD

cast time and GCD are two different things

Probably because each stat has its own formula in the game codes and they don't want a single skill affecting two types of skills. They wouldn't want other classes casting stoneskin faster for example. That's my guess.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Probably because each stat has its own formula in the game codes and they don't want a single skill affecting two types of skills. They wouldn't want other classes casting stoneskin faster for example. That's my guess.

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But every other secondary stat (save parry) already effects physical skills, spells and even auto attacks. Skill Speed/Spell Speed are the only stats that don't.

Tl;dr version of this:

"We don't want players to rely on spell Haste like they did in FFXI or other Final Fantasy games."

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

I think you have answered the question by mentioning Flash for example.
If flash is affected by Skill Speed, then you may cast it more frequently, apparently the system was designed to restrcit you to do that. ^^

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Why would that be a bad thing? It's already worse in terms of threat generated and damage done (none) than the warrior's overpower. So it should also not be affected by the any "speed" gear that the PLD wears? That makes no sense.

Seems more like an oversight than actual intended design.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Tl;dr version of this:

"We don't want players to rely on spell Haste like they did in FFXI or other Final Fantasy games."

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Uhhh ... what?

BECAUSE REASONS!

-TORGUE

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Uhhh ... what?

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That was Yoshida's reasoning for this Skill/Spell system when Haste spell would simply solve all issues - He simply wanted to try to nip an issue before it crops up, but as proven with everything else he tried in that regard, it didn't help.

Perhaps to keep in mind for future content (perhaps NIN even, depending if Ninjutsu has a cast time) for melee/caster hybrids.
PLD is another example - since PLD doesn't have any spell speed gear (minus materia melds), it means that casting spells like Stoneskin will be at the default 2.5secs recast.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Perhaps to keep in mind for future content (perhaps NIN even, depending if Ninjutsu has a cast time) for melee/caster hybrids.
PLD is another example - since PLD doesn't have any spell speed gear (minus materia melds), it means that casting spells like Stoneskin will be at the default 2.5secs recast.

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That doesn't make any sense. Skill speed is already a weak stat, but it would be particularly weak for any class if it didn't apply to all their abilities.

How is a PLD casting stoneskin a few tenths of a second faster imbalanced? PLD already has to full stop DPS & threat entirely to stoneskin, whereas the relative warrior equivalent (self heals) is performed while they do damage.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Perhaps to keep in mind for future content (perhaps NIN even, depending if Ninjutsu has a cast time) for melee/caster hybrids.
PLD is another example - since PLD doesn't have any spell speed gear (minus materia melds), it means that casting spells like Stoneskin will be at the default 2.5secs recast.

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To be honest I feel like those two examples are good reasons to make Speed affect both types. As it stands it's a near worthless stat except in reaching certain plateaus (and still slightly inferior even then). It affects only GCD direct damage - no auto, no oGCD, and no DoT - while Crit and Det both affect all four damage types. If it won't be balanced in a more standard way, it might at least quicken song and Stoneskin casts...