by asking this question, i don't mean it in the current time since all classes are nearly full of flaws :( i am just wondering whether it is planned to be a Tank or a DD class or even both!
i would like to hear your ideas on how would Devs fix the class currently and make it work for both :)
As for me, since there is no Def or Off stances...i would say they should make the "usable on evade only" abilities produce more Enmity than other abilities (more like Phalanx) and remove that condition from Simian Thrash and increase the damage of Concussive Blow, beside that removing MP from Pummel and Light Strike and reducing Flurry Recast (30 second is reasonable) and redesigning Pummel to make it an ability to increase generated TP instead of what it is right now...
of course you can drop all this and find other solutions if we had toggle Stances :)
What do you think?
Pugilist role in groups... a Tank or a Damage Dealer?
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07-28-2011, 09:58 PMUltradarkPugilist role in groups... a Tank or a Damage Dealer?
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07-28-2011, 10:05 PMIndecentSoul
I am still hoping that maybe we will get the concept version of PGL one day. A stance system that either lowers our offense(Attack, spell potency) while increasing our defense(Evasion, defense) or a second offensive stance that does that opposite.
As it is now 1.18 PGL feels kinda bland and not nearly as fun as pre 1.18. -
07-28-2011, 11:27 PMLienn
IMO PGL might be taking both roles based on job systems later on...but right now i'd say its a "solo class"...it cannot DD as well as LNC or ARC and cannot really tank well since taunt nerf so you also cannot really use counter skills in party often.
But, for now, i guess its more of a DD than tank. -
07-30-2011, 07:04 AMMuruganPugilist can both Tank and DD all mobs/instances currently in the game just fine. Of course to do it well you need to have certain abilities from other classes. I believe a well played Pugilist is just as capable as a GLA tanking (having a slight edge on some fights, and handicap on others), or a LNC/MRD in terms of DD capability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultradark
You may not do the same damage as an ARC or a mage, but you can still be of use to your party by assisting with incapacitation, Battle Regimen (we gain TP very fast), and hate transfer through accomplice chains, and Collusion. I think we do these things better than an ARC or mage personally. -
07-30-2011, 07:38 AMViridianaI'm getting kinda tired of the forums saying I can't tank, when my LS and I know better. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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07-30-2011, 09:22 AMLiennI never said you can't tank ^^: I just said its harder now that the taunt was nerfed. I do consider PGL a tank class and believe it can tank...the only problem is that now the enmity is flowing too fast...maybe after next balancing patch it can resume doing it very well again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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07-30-2011, 09:53 AMViridianaThing is, I don't have enmity issues, and my survivability issues would be fixed by getting Defender II.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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07-30-2011, 11:06 AMMuruganTaunt wasn't nerfed maybe you just don't understand what Taunt does. If you are using taunt as your primary means to build enmity you are doing it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
I only use taunt when I need to focus the mob on me. So if I have aggro, and unless for some reason I know my enmity is gonna dip, I never use taunt. Taunt is much too valuable to be wasting like that. -
07-30-2011, 11:14 AMDeceptistar
I would think all jobs are pretty much how you make it to play, nvm the devs doing anything. It just may take a few years for things to be 'discovered' so you really cant tell.
Similar to the FFXI. Tanking a few years ago with nin/drk, -%dmg reduction gears, %haste, sprinkle spells and voila, god enmity. The players made a class into something the devs never thought of -
07-30-2011, 04:29 PMLiennWell, by what i know it "was" like this, no? I would have to double check it...if i said i tried really hard tanking as PGL after 1.18 i'd be lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
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08-07-2011, 12:51 PMSuMDRGMAN
i always had to tank with my DRG in 11 LS made me cause teh PLD war nin tanks couldnt keep hate off me>< but yeah pug tanking is fun just a lil bit harder now
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08-07-2011, 01:56 PMLiennI forgot to say...you're correct. I was giving taunt a try one of these days...it indeed does not generate enmity anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
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08-09-2011, 07:44 AMOttovonawesome
I see the PUG as being intended as a "scrapper" his role is to attach to stray agro's and mobs that run off toward the squishy back rank fellows that the main tank maybe too busy to deal with on account of him fighting for his life. Seems SE intended to add elements from other mmo's to the current classes so as not to make them just DD onry archer excluded. MRD might currently stink but he's supposed stand next to tank and draw agro with AoE, LNC support dd designed to stick hate and buff the melee effort while PUG is to stand ready waiting for unexcpected developments and deal with them like rogue'ish independant hero that he is. I have a PUG that I play with that personifies this perfectly always running off to hold mobs while the main group deals with the original threat. I think the new star wars mmo also has taken the jedi class to do this very thing.
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08-09-2011, 07:52 AMMattyWS
I think we need to wait for the new job system. maybe it can do both, under different jobs. for example
Pugilist > Monk = DD
Pugilist > (something) = Tank
Speculation but, they did say the job system was for each job to do a specific role. -
08-09-2011, 12:30 PMNoctisUmbraWhat's this silly LS you speak of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
Seriously speaking though, PGL was an awesome tank pre-1.18 and is now more clearly than ever an offensive tank.
PGL has no trouble holding hate - hell it can hold hate better than a GLA. It's the survival aspect. PGL needs to evade to tank effectively and Light Strike's continuous buff was a huge boon to that end. The move has been gimped to become situational now and I can say firsthand I do not evade nearly as much.
However, provided you rank GLA and MRD to basically 50 and get all them sub skills, well no shit you can tank :D But honestly if I managed to get GLA or MRD to 50 I'd rather tank on them at this point.
PGL is being made more and more into a DD, but where it really shines is being the best solo class. -
08-10-2011, 09:56 AMSerio
After 1.18a my PUG deals a shitload of damage with weaponskills. Guess it's a DD now? I mean, it has the potential to off-tank when the GLA is getting pwnd and needs a quick break. Or when the mages pull too much hate. Taunt is still a very useful skill, but it's recast is 50 seconds. So I guess PUG is now a decent DD with situational off-tanking potential.
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08-11-2011, 01:57 PMViridianaNah, absolute highest I'm getting GLA to anytime soon is 36. Maybe 40 if I decide I need Provoke II. That Obsess II you see at 48 isn't worth it to me. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra
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08-11-2011, 09:05 PMMuruganWelcome to FFXIV?Quote:
Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra
If you want to tank well on any class (including GLA) you need more than one job 45+. A Pugilist can tank without Defender II, just like a Gladiator can, but they aren't going to be as good as one with it. -
08-12-2011, 12:41 AMNoctisUmbraI know....Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
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08-14-2011, 05:44 AMAkuun
Yoshi-P has already stated that classes are more for light parties, and that the upcoming jobs are designed for full parties.
Unfortunately all we have is classes atm, gla mrd and pgl are all about the same tanking wise, some being better at tanking some monsters than others, but not a large enough difference for any of the 3 to clearly outshine the others.
Gladiator has a shield for blocking, and can evade and parry with a lower chance than the respective classes.
Marauder has a huge HP pool and parry, but can also evade about the same as gladiator.
Pugilist has evasion, and partial parry, which while this may make them the weakest defender, they also have the most devastating returns for attacks they evade.
Now some say, well gladiator can wear all the best evasion gear and use feather foot to further enhance this. They can also get a high parry weapon and use foresight to enhance parry as well. Basically it comes down to them being the only war class that can wield a shield, but at the same time, gladiators usually sacrifice lots of their damage and weapon skills for more defense and enmity abilities. this makes them the slowest to grab a good amount of hate. They also hold hate poorly because steady damage holds better hate and for longer than these enmity abilities. Even with max HP gladiators can still quickly go down on Batraal if swords come up at a bad time, or any number of things.
Once jobs are introduced we may see a clear leader but for now each of the 3 tank classes has it's strength and weakness. -
08-21-2011, 04:20 AMJdogTaunt was nerfed.... It was a 30 second cooldown, now its 50 seconds, i would say that's a nerfQuote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
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08-21-2011, 04:54 AMAkuunQuote:
Taunt wasn't nerfed maybe you just don't understand what Taunt does. If you are using taunt as your primary means to build enmity you are doing it wrong.
I only use taunt when I need to focus the mob on me. So if I have aggro, and unless for some reason I know my enmity is gonna dip, I never use taunt. Taunt is much too valuable to be wasting like that.
I think what he's trying to say is that it doesn't nerf pugilist as a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdog
I would have to agree, I actually rarely used this ability to tank, accomplice and our threat holding attacks tend to be more than enough.
Taunt can also be used as a catalyst for simian thrash when you're not the tank, as it still forces the target to attack you for a short time. -
08-22-2011, 01:09 PMkro
Any melee can tank decently with Provoke, Disorient, Intimidation and decent damage output. I've even done it on LNC.
Have those skills available if a party needs you to tank along with Taunt, Featherfoot, and your evasion-proc reactionary skills. Equip Accomplice if it's a long fight. Otherwise, generally build for DD. -
08-23-2011, 04:13 AM0451It's not possible to parry or evade while holding the shield arm up. Gladiator is heavily reliant on shield skills that I can't see him putting on evasion gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuun
I love tanking so I planned on leveling Marauder/Pugilist after I finish with Gladiator. Is it possible to parry/evade enemy weapon skills? That might be a huge advantage to Pugilist since shield blocking has no effect on them. -
08-23-2011, 05:35 AMNoctisUmbraI don't believe you can parry Weaponskills, but you definitely can evade them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0451
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08-23-2011, 06:03 AMAkuunI was not aware of that, though it could change when they make blocking a proc % instead of being a limited duration action like it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0451
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08-23-2011, 06:15 AMVackashkenCorrect - you cannot parry WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0451
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08-29-2011, 06:31 AM0451
I want to apologize to Akuun because I'm a fool. If I put foresight while blocking I'll never parry and I was so dead set that it would be the same for featherfoot. Then I leveled Pugilist to 12 and facepalmed hard when I tested it. Sorry about the misinformation.
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09-01-2011, 05:48 PMUltradark
After the changes for weapon skills damage in 1.18a, the hate-holding is much better now, speaking tanking-wise, but the received damage is still spiky and generally huge making it annoying sometimes.
On the other hand, the damage buff is more than welcome for damage dealing, but Pugilists damage is still lower than enough compared to other classes because of being dependent on evading in order to deal good damage.
For the time being i really appreciate the buff and looking forward to see 1.20 changes and the polishing of the Pugilist class alongside all the other classes, and how will jobs change the curve of your character's path.