Vote Kick is completely broken in Syrcus Tower

I am infuriated.

Just got out of a Syrcus Tower run. BLM in party goes AFK. We start the fights and the BLM is AFK throughout two of them, so we decide to kick her for being AFK (gave her ample time).

But we can't, because she hasn't rolled on the item that dropped. So someone pulled, and we couldn't kick her because we were in a fight.

So the fight ended and she was still AFK, and we still couldn't kick her, because she hadn't rolled on the new item that just dropped.

Ad nauseam.

So we finish Syrcus with this dead, AFK BLM in our party. Then an Oil of Time drops. She decides to come back, rolls on the Oil, gets it, and then leaves.

Are you kidding me? The Vote Kick system needs a complete revamping, IMO.

Report for harassment/griefing. That's all you can really do. :/

What is worse are ppl who come in as a group and then let their fc buds afk. I have run more than a few ct and st runs where we have a full pt of 8 but only have 5-6 fighting, vote-kick is denied and you are threatened or taunted til you leave on your own.

Looks like you got set up

You were lucky enough that they didn't vote kick you after seeing Oil of Time drops.

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Originally Posted by AurelienRainier

I am infuriated.

Just got out of a Syrcus Tower run. BLM in party goes AFK. We start the fights and the BLM is AFK throughout two of them, so we decide to kick her for being AFK (gave her ample time).

But we can't, because she hasn't rolled on the item that dropped. So someone pulled, and we couldn't kick her because we were in a fight.

So the fight ended and she was still AFK, and we still couldn't kick her, because she hadn't rolled on the new item that just dropped.

Ad nauseam.

So we finish Syrcus with this dead, AFK BLM in our party. Then an Oil of Time drops. She decides to come back, rolls on the Oil, gets it, and then leaves.

Are you kidding me? The Vote Kick system needs a complete revamping, IMO.

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Thats been happening a lot on my server too. I've also seen players kicking people before the last boss to get the oil of time. Thats happen to me a few times too. Sometimes i get lucky and finish the last boss lol.

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Originally Posted by tOnni3

You were lucky enough that they didn't vote kick you after seeing Oil of Time drops.

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If you took the time to read, or understood how vote kicking even worked, you would know that once loot drops you are no longer allowed to vote kick until everyone has rolled on the loot and it has been distributed.

You're complaining about this now? You must not have done the Crystal Tower where kicking was the norm.

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Originally Posted by Dawning-Blue

Thats been happening a lot on my server too. I've also seen players kicking people before the last boss to get the oil of time. Thats happen to me a few times too. Sometimes i get lucky and finish the last boss lol.

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That's really vile.. I would not have even fathomed something like that happening over here.

Happened to me once. Simple: Communication. i wrote in alliance chat: Hey we have someone afk here right from the beginning(we just defeated second boss, been at amon). Can you please wait to pull till the loot timer expanded. 2 min pls. "sure np". waited. kicked. done. Talk to your raid, instead of bitching afterwards because no one said something.

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Originally Posted by Dawning-Blue

Thats been happening a lot on my server too. I've also seen players kicking people before the last boss to get the oil of time..

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Vote kick before the final boss? I assume a partial FC premade where someone is being guaranteed the Oil drop so they vote kick the randoms at the end? Kind of silly for a drop that isn't guaranteed.

In any case there isn't much the devs can do. Vote Kick is working just fine and the limitations are there so people can't be even worse trolls and kick people after the chest pops or right near the end of the boss fight. What you guys should have done is asked the other allys to hold up a minute so the loot could autodrop. If that loot is still in the pool after a trash pull there's likely only a minute or less on the timer anyways.

how about getting vote kicked right before the last boss for no reason, presumably because a group of ppl are in a party and have realised you are going to lot their precious oil. I'm going to start intentionally not lotting loot etc so that I can't be kicked. oh wait, except that ST is a waste of time and I've decided I won't be doing it anymore.

That sucks, though it's even worse when you get a bot in your party, manage to initiate the vote, but the party declines because apparently, running to the boss on auto-attack and dying is as good as playing the class for real.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

What is worse are ppl who come in as a group and then let their fc buds afk. I have run more than a few ct and st runs where we have a full pt of 8 but only have 5-6 fighting, vote-kick is denied and you are threatened or taunted til you leave on your own.

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Had something similar happen in a CT I was in... 2 of the DPS were in full crafting SB gear, so they had barely 2k life and were entirely useless, but since their friends were in the group, we couldn't kick them. One of the healers refused to even go into combat until they were removed or put on their real gear so instead, they kicked him.

A thing similar happen to me just now.
People enter with their full stuff, then switch to stuff to sb.
Said to them to switch, ask to kick someone who did it. They refuse. I choose to be kick instead.

Can't we get a way to prevent us for switching stuff that drop your ilvl after we enter a dungeon? Lock DoH/DoL stuff too.

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Originally Posted by Bloodclad

A thing similar happen to me just now.
People enter with their full stuff, then switch to stuff to sb.
Said to them to switch, ask to kick someone who did it. They refuse. I choose to be kick instead.

Can't we get a way to prevent us for switching stuff that drop your ilvl after we enter a dungeon? Lock DoH/DoL stuff too.

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I agree. You shouldn't be able to change gear to items that drop you below the required ilevel for the dungeon.

I also think you shouldn't be able to equip DoH/DoL items in any dungeon, period. :/

Until those things happen (if they ever do), all you can really do is report the behavior unfortunately.

I don't know why some people think the rest of us are there to do their work for them.

I would support anything that would prevent DOH/DOL gear being equipped in dungeons, trials or raids. I would also support a mechanism to detect if someone drops below the required item level for the content.

I was in a Haukke HM via High Level Roulette the other day; one of the DPS had a ton of spiritbonding crafting gear on. I would have been happy to leave them to it, but our DPS was so slow the healer (who was appropriately geared but not overgeared for the content) couldn't keep up and people were dying. I was tanking, but wasn't even doing particularly big pulls. In the end I refused to continue until they changed.

If you must spiritbond crafting gear in combat, join a FATE party. If you must spiritbond in a level 50 dungeon, at least wear Militia gear or something else that contributes somewhat to you playing your role. Personally I get my crafting / gathering materia through quick synthing and don't inconvenience anyone.

Unlike Frontline, when it comes to Crystal Tower we need to factor in the fact that you can lot on items, so this is something we need to look into very carefully.

We've passed on the feedback to the development team regarding the cases where it’s not possible to vote dismiss players that are AFK and they will be looking into a good method to address this so everyone can play comfortably.

I agree. Perhaps either:

A-Make the time given to roll not so god awful long
B-After a chest is opened give players the ability to votekick ~20 seconds or so
C-If you ignore a resurrect you will be automatically booted
D-Create low participation requirements for individual roles such as
-DPS for fight is lower than 50= you cannot lot
-HPS for fight is lower than 50= you cannot lot
-Tank DPS for fight is lower than 20= you cannot lot
E-If you are locked out of X amount of fights you are automatically booted

There are more ideas out there, however maybe a combination of those and these ideas would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

how about getting vote kicked right before the last boss for no reason, presumably because a group of ppl are in a party and have realised you are going to lot their precious oil. I'm going to start intentionally not lotting loot etc so that I can't be kicked. oh wait, except that ST is a waste of time and I've decided I won't be doing it anymore.

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I haven't been vote kicked ever, but one thing people also do instead of vote kicking is they simply don't cast a lot on final boss forcing everyone who lotted to wait. People do this for mainly 2 reasons: some do it to 'help' their friends odds on getting the drop by holding up the loot drops and maybe pursuading 1-2 party members to just leave before it drops or to troll when they already have their item for the week (or just don't want one). I had one group be real jerks about it...others have done it, silently, but the jerk group went something like this:

Final boss is killed:

Oil + something else drops.

I lot on oil, right as battle ends.
About 30 seconds later, the (do nothing semi afk) tank we had in our group says 'Mind if I lot the oil?' (so since I already lotted on it, I couldn't pass it even if I wanted to)
Me: I already lotted on it, but you're more than free to lot Need on it too.
His Friend: Well, guess you'd like to sit here the full time then, because I have no pony in this race, I'm not passing until all you who lotted the oil leave and my friend gets it.
Me: No worries, I can wait too. (at this point, even if I rolled a 2 I'd wait....because I hate when people think they can bully a drop pass)
Tank/Tank Friend then proceeded until the last 2-3 seconds to insult, and taunt the handful of us still remaining (some did leave).
Me:( After a fair amount of taunting) Guys seriously, I rolled a 96, so your chances of out-rolling it are slim...so again, you're wasting your own time more than mine...at the end of this, odds are in my favor I walk away with the oil. So again, your choice, but I rolled a 96, I never promised you a drop, I hate bullies and I am NOT leaving.

-Now keep in mind, I don't expect people to leave just because I (honestly btw) tell them what I rolled as they have no way of knowing if I was honest about it or not until the loot actually drops...and people have been known to lie on the internet occasionally, so I don't blame them for waiting. But be good sports. Roll on gear/items if you want them and pass/leave if you don't.

Furthermore, SE SHOULD change it so that people who got their weekly drop no longer HAVE to pass/let the time run out for gear to drop. If you can't lot the item, the game should auto-pass for you. But the amount of bullying that happens over Oils can be unreal. (esp when you factor in 1. they actually drop fairly often and 2. you can form your own full-party and enter this instance = automatically your item if it drops and your pre-made agrees.)

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Originally Posted by Aegic

SNIP.

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A would be good. Make it a bit shorter. B would be abused...this is what they're trying to avoid. Partial Premade boots a guy when they see the loot. C..you need to elaborate. You mean don't accept? What if I click NO by accident? Not a good idea. D invites trolls. Start the fight...lock people out...they cant roll.... E invites the same trolling.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

His Friend: Well, guess you'd like to sit here the full time then, because I have no pony in this race, I'm not passing until all you who lotted the oil leave and my friend gets it.

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The fact that this was considered an actual threat is frankly hilarious to me. "Y'all better pass, or I'm going to waste your time for FIVE MINUTES!"

My response would've been, "That's cool. afk 5 min, gonna go grab a drink."

lol the comments in this thread are exactly why I never cast lots (pass) on trash items in ST until the next boss fight has started. People are abusive and so long as battle mode is active or there are items in the loot list... they can't use this broken "griefing" system to boot you from the party.

On topic though, I agree that people being able to AFK for the whole run and come in at the end to try and steal loot is evidence of a broken system that needs adjusting. SE just needs to be careful not to swing too far the other way, or they will remove tactics like the above mentioned, which are the only real defense players have against a different kind of abuse.

Change Roll timer to 60 seconds vs 500.

If you don't know you need to NEED/GREED within 60 seconds you shouldn't be getting the drop anyways.

As for RAID parties which use point systems to find out who gets what. Well if they are run correctly, Anyone that should be looting will know what they can get before hand.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

how about getting vote kicked right before the last boss for no reason, presumably because a group of ppl are in a party and have realised you are going to lot their precious oil. I'm going to start intentionally not lotting loot etc so that I can't be kicked. oh wait, except that ST is a waste of time and I've decided I won't be doing it anymore.

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I had this happen to me. It was a fine run with no issues or arguments, but as we were lining up to start Xande I was booted for no reason at all. I assume the other DRG in the group that wanted the same piece I did was to blame. Now I will not pass Amon's drop until we are fighting Xande. I called a GM to report the vote kick abuse, it's all we can really do.

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Originally Posted by Gamex

So sands of time might be coming in 2.38.... be prepared to get @#%$ed over indefinitely to this type of behavior LOL.

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If this happens, unless Amon drops something I want, I'm letting the full time run out.

Yesterday got the worst. An entire alliance of two premade groups, playing just to make miserable the life of third, DF aggregated, party.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Yesterday got the worst. An entire alliance of two premade groups, playing just to make miserable the life of third, DF aggregated, party.

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Hah! Same thing happened to me. The other 2 tanks would only tank just to pull control away from me then stop and let mob run wild. Rinse-repeat through the entire run. Just got to do the best with what you got and remember never feed trolls.

To prevent pre-made vote kicking, SE could adopt Blizzard's version of it. If I recall, any number of kick votes among premade members will count as single vote total, which would force the majority vote among the the non-premade members in order to successfully kick. This may solve 'most' of the problems with kicking to get loot, as well as AFKers, where the decision is on the members outside the premade. The only problem lies on a 1-vs-1 situation where, let's say, an alliance/party consist of only two premade groups, where a group with an AFKer will collectively prevent the player from getting kicked.

I had a tank/whm combo in st and the tank was only doing 2-3 attacks per fight and then just auto attacking. He was there and moving but not fighting, when I called him on it the couple just kept calling me troll and some how adding an n to my name so I became Rincon.

Point being I guess you can do 20 dps per fight but when you get called on it you can just yell troll 9000 times and win the internet and the loot.

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Originally Posted by KihreNeko

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The problem with this though is that sometimes you go in with friends that have connection issues, I know one of my friends often has issues, and there are times when the friends are the only ones that keep them in. Having connection issues should not prevent a person from getting loot or completing a dungeon and vetoing friends from supporting a friend that might get kicked because of those issues... well that seems unfair. Admittedly if it goes 10-15 minutes and they can't get back on, even I will agree to kick, even if it's a friend.

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Originally Posted by Aegic

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A/D I agree with, shorter times and participation lotting is cool. B-Vote-kick on lotting is still bad and unnecessary with shorter times. C-sometimes people choose not to rez to avoid sickness when fight is almost over, that's fine. E can also be abused because sometimes people pull and lock people out who were considering the loot, or went AFK between floors. But otherwise not bad.