Noct Hoplon

So did a quick ST run last night in hopes that I'd get an OIL...you know like everyone else. Well I got lucky and got one. Decided to use it on the W. Noct Hoplon...and just wow.

I am truly pleased with this upgrade. I am nowhere near T9 hence nowhere near the best shield in the game, I do now have the second best shield for PLD and I am ok with that.

And it glows. Soon as I complete a few more hunts I will get a sand for my W. Burtgang.

Just wanted to share my little moment of happiness.

Syn

Congrats dude. I still haven't gotten into hunts. I've killed a few while grinding fates. But from what I read and see in shouts. It reminds me a bit of nm camping, waiting for spawns and after 7ish years of endgame nm camping in ffxi back when cap was still 75.I currently haven't been interested in hunts. Although I could be completely wrong. But

High Allagan shield is from Turn 8, not Turn 9. Just fyi.

Got my noct hoplon, love te 42% block i get off of it.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

High Allagan shield is from Turn 8, not Turn 9. Just fyi.

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Thanks,

Still not close to that though. ; ;

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Originally Posted by repoe

Congrats dude. I still haven't gotten into hunts. I've killed a few while grinding fates. But from what I read and see in shouts. It reminds me a bit of nm camping, waiting for spawns and after 7ish years of endgame nm camping in ffxi back when cap was still 75.I currently haven't been interested in hunts. Although I could be completely wrong. But

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I wish I can say it is like XI NM hunting but its not. One, since there is no actual "Claim" system (i.e. you can attack purple and still get credit) as long as you hit the target your in. Two I was running with a group and just got an LS and after a few hours with no major experience in hunting got 519 Allied Seals plus a book drop and in one day got the Noct Lorica upgrade. I would say give it a try.

That's super crazy.

Grats on the book drop too.

Slowly but surely I am getting there...

Noct shield tbh is the worst of shield types. Kite (HA) is by far the best, making bulwark into sentinel level CD, followed by round shield for high proc rates for dps, then noct.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Noct shield tbh is the worst of shield types. Kite (HA) is by far the best, making bulwark into sentinel level CD, followed by round shield for high proc rates for dps, then noct.

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It's not quite right to say "this shield is just the worst". The truth is that Round and Tower(Noct) are situationally useful, while a Kite Shield is something you can just wear anywhere and be okay. It is true that a Tower shield is probably the worst option to take into fights like Turn 8 and 9, but Towers have their place in situations where a single enemy is not dealing spiky damage or high hit situations that only last about as long as Bulwark does, as a Tower shield makes Bulwark Sentinel level.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Noct shield tbh is the worst of shield types. Kite (HA) is by far the best, making bulwark into sentinel level CD, followed by round shield for high proc rates for dps, then noct.

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INR, that's why it's listed as #2 on most BiS lists, despite it's shield type being the WORST...how you can even support that I am not sure. Maybe it is the worst for you and your build, works just fine for me and mine.

No one here disputed HA being the best, however I think you are slightly off on what you mean with the bulwark sentinel thing. Bulwark with a lower block rate shield is the tits. It's been written about somewhere on the forums here, lower block rate benefits more from bulwark than a higher block rate as there is no diminishing return or waste, then it is like a second sentinel.

Nice way to roll into my happy thread and derail it with some negativity.

+1 to you

Syn

Tower shield are not good with Bulwark, bulwark is not a 60% flat increase in block rate, but rather a 1.6 multipler on your current shield's block rate, so it is actually terrible with tower shields like noct. The reason why its #2 is cuz its a i110 compared to 115 and 100, as main stats > everything else. In no situation is tower shield better then kites, round is suited for dps/long fight where TP is limiting.

Congratz on the upgrade though~

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Originally Posted by NightReach

bulwark is not a 60% flat increase in block rate,

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Yes it is. I ran out with a square maple shield and actually tested it not long ago.

you would have to test with more than one type of shield to test properly

Also, I don't think anyone is saying that the tower is better than the kite, just disputing the point you were trying to make that it is the worst shield.

Could be my eyes but when I pop Bulwark, I have no complaints. I also have no complaints without it.

Thank you for the grats ^.^

I know the feeling of this excitement for new item you wanted to make for a long time!
For 3 weeks I was saving my soldiery, UAT and Sand of Time for Book of Spades. Yesterday after the reset I was quite excited about the new bad ass looking item!
Those soldiery weapons can be really cool, especially if somebody hates relic past zenith upgrade (like me :))

Long story short - Gratz on the upgrade!

p.s. Post a pic of the shield, haven't found a good one on the net :)

Will do tonight! I like the looks of it!

Grats on your Noct Hoplon. :D

Sorry for beating you to the punch tho... lol

http://i.imgur.com/YE3vtjo.jpg

Noct Hoplon is actually BIS over High Allagan due to the way parry and block rate work :) so congratulations!

Thank you, thank you!!

As requested here is a pic of my toy!

http://i.imgur.com/ESmINKM.png

and

http://i.imgur.com/YBEA8Xq.png?1

WooT!!

Syn

The Hoplon was the first thing i upgraded with my static's first T7 clear oil, it's alot better then using on an accessory. It has served me well until i got my HA Shield from T8 (this was all before Novus was even implemented), if it's for progression's sake i say by all means go for it. It's not the best shield but it is an excellent bridge to one.

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Originally Posted by Brosephz

Noct Hoplon is actually BIS over High Allagan due to the way parry and block rate work :) so congratulations!

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Please don't spread false information. HA is much better than noct.

Yes blocking dilutes your effect parry rate but only if you block. Blocking is also more effective than parry. (31-32% with HA at a 30ish % rate) vs parry at -26% at a 20-25% rate.

Most endgame PLD don't even stack parry making HA even better.

Its been stated by many engame T9 cleared tanks (including BGs world first PLD Junpei) that Noct is BiS for a PLD in a progression scenario. In a progression scenario, parry is the most important stat for a PLD (after VIT). If you are prioritizing parry by this logic, an endgame PLD will have roughly 604 Parry (approx 46% parry rate/chance).

The Noct hoplon is not only BiS due to the way Bulwark effects it (Noct + Bulwark = Sentinel II) for hard hitting moves like Raven's Beak in T9, but also because of the way it values a high parry build. Since less blocks opens up room for more parry, But when you do block, its huge.

There is alot of missinformation in this thread. I recommend everyone does their research on how Parry/Noct compliment eachother as well as the reasoning behind the Noct hoplon being BiS in a progression scenario (hands down).

MT Progression = Noct BiS
T9 OT/Farm = H.A Kite (STR,DET DPS increase)

If you dont prioritize parry at all (you should unless ur on farm mode), then the choice is rather obvious.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

The Noct hoplon is not only BiS due to the way Bulwark effects it (Noct + Bulwark = Sentinel II) for hard hitting moves like Raven's Beak in T9, but also because of the way it values a high parry build. Since less blocks opens up room for more parry, But when you do block, its huge.

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I actually don't think Bulwark adds a flat 60% rate of blocking to Noct Hoplon to make it funcitonally equivalent to sentinel (total of something like ~80% block rate). I think it just multiplies the block rate number on the shield by 1.6 and that is the new block rate. I'm not 100% sure on this but I'd be surprised if bulwark just added a flat 60% increase.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

If you dont prioritize parry at all (you should unless ur on farm mode), then the choice is rather obvious.

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If you prioritize parry even in progression mode it emphasizes a lack of faith in your healers, because if you had to rely on Parry or a non-Bulwark block to survive a hit, you rolled the dice against very bad odds and got lucky. The stacking of say 60 extra parry would not have mattered in most cases.

I would never have wasted 390 soldiery and an oil on a sidegrade when I was lucky enough to just have HA kite shield drop early on.

I don't care if you believe parry is statistically better; mitigating what essentially amounts to 10-20 full autoattacks over the course of a fight is generally meaningless.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

There is alot of missinformation in this thread.

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Yes the BG tanks stacked parry while learning the fights. (They no longer stack parry). A lot has changed in the three months from that post. One of the big selling points of Noct back then was the Acc since hitting 515 wasn't easy the first couple weeks of coil2.

Parry and blocks lead to over curing more then anything.

Even in the current progression (savage coil) all the tanks are using HA including BGs. They are stacking parry in savage but even that's for the learning curve.

I use a parry build for t7 only because my DPS means squat for that turn. 6 and 8 is full STR and t9 I use 3 VIT 2 STR Acc still.

pretty sure when BG got their first clear, their PLD has around 7.4 K ish. now aday most T9 tank are a lot more gear than BG tank back then.
also most of the T9 tank that I known, no longer stack parry exclusively.

once you reach 8k ish (as PLD) and ilv 105+, it doesn't really matter which 2ndary stat you got as long as you got enough acc.

With the amount of Sand/Oil you got access via Hunt/ST + T6-8 farm. there is no excuse for tank to be under gear when tanking T9 anyway.

8k HP is excessive even for progression.

8K is a bit much but it help a lot when you have to deal with random pug, having 8K make it a bit easier if you don't have full static and have to pug some member. especially pug Healer
Plus, 8K ish after food and PT buff is not that hard to reach anyway ;P , you never know when healer miss time their shield on MT for Beak or after beak explosion. xD

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

If you prioritize parry even in progression mode it emphasizes a lack of faith in your healers, because if you had to rely on Parry or a non-Bulwark block to survive a hit, you rolled the dice against very bad odds and got lucky. The stacking of say 60 extra parry would not have mattered in most cases.

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I think that's the wrong way to look at it.

It's not about expecting a parry or block to save you. It's about maximizing your role in a party. A tank in tank mode, at it's absolute best, pales in comparison to an equivalently geared healer in DPS mode. So your stat choices should probably reflect that, especially if you don't always run with healers you know you can count on. It's win-win, good healers can do more damage, and an iffy healer is less likely to cause a wipe. Additionally, the benefits of mitigation stats are increased substantially if you switch to sword oath while tanking.

So don't think about it as "I'm expecting that stacking vit/parry/block str will mean the difference between surviving a big hit or not" and think about it more as "I'm expecting that stacking vit/parry/bock str will allow me or my healer a greater buffer while DPSing."

And whatever argument you make about how meaningless a tiny bit of damage mitigation is from stacking defensive stats can also be made about how meaningless the tiny bit of damage output you get from stacking offensive stats.

I just can't see a tower being BiS ever so I'm gonna hang on to novus until HA drops.

I would like to comment on the parry vs offensive stats. My dd's are getting much stronger by the day and every point of damage that I can squeeze out is multiplied by enmity modifiers which lets them start harder and keep the heat up nonstop on fights like turn 6. And with 8k hp no food I can afford to miss a few parries.

The tower, to me and my build, is BiS until HA. But that is all it is, personal preference. The novus route, not my thing atm. Possibly later but not now.

This thread has been terribly derailed. It was not started as a Tower vs. Kite discussion. It was me, celebrating my attainment of something I had been working toward.

If you wan't to discuss shield superiority, please create your own thread.

Syn

Hello all, just an update! I am liking this!

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pMW8Toz.png[/IMG]

grats on the shield, it sure looks kick ass

Sorry if the question will stupid, bhut can i obtain Weathered Noc Hoplon? Im a beginer and i searched on ff14 wiki and say its in Mor Dhona, but i dont find anywhere. :(

Weathered Noct Hoplon you get it from your Hunt Billmaster at whatever Grand Company you are with. Then you upgrade it using sands of time at North Shroud.

There is also a chance that you may receive the upgraded (unweathered) version through Retainer Quick Ventures, but there is no guarantee on that so you're better off just doing some ARR Hunts and gaining the shield that way with Allied Seals.

Tower vs. Kite shield discussions, that takes me back.