T9 - Bahamut's Claws

I need some advice on these. I'm applying Adlo and Virus as she is casting Bahamut's Favour and the first set of Claws of every cycle is actually trivial. It's the second set that follows Thermionic Beam that's giving me issues. I apply Adlo and E4E while everyone is stacked but the second set always chunks for like 25% with each strike, giving me no time to spam Adlo and I have to blow all of my stacks on Lustrate. I don't remember the exact rotation my tank uses but he has it set up so he can Hallowed Ground on the fourth set and use Sentinel twice - I'm pretty sure it's not a tank problem.

You can split the damage by having the OT taunt it. But it is definitely not needed, and probably more tricky.

Other then that it is probably a combination of factors
What was the whm doing? POM/Sealed Cure 2 with precast regen and medica 2?
Did the tank use a small CD?
Does the tank have i90 gear on left side still (armor rating).
Does the tank have food on?

Gear trivializes it quite a bit.... but without all the information its hard to tell what the issue is.

A large part of this is just knowing how much healing your tank needs to live, rather than relying on keeping your tank at 100% all the time.

What I'm used to from my group is that our PLD at most can take roughly 11k damage during this part assuming he is completely unlucky and doesn't block or parry at all, detract his HP from that (7.6k is what he had on our first kill), and that means that this burst is actually only 3.4k more damage than he can take without healing. This isn't all that much when you get down to it, an Adlo before hand will take ~900 off of that (Probably more by this point since I was barely above i101 on our first kill), add two lustrates to that and we're already in the positive health territory just from my own healing contributions. If our WHM then also adds in one Cure II during claws we're solidly ahead of the healing requirement, and if I cast one Adlo during claws our tank basically finishes this burst phase at 70%+ HP.

Keep in mind as well that the way this game processes things is a bit weird. You can land a heal to heal up damage before the damage has appeared to happen on your screen, which is pretty valuable for controlled lustrates during claws. If you use a lustrate when you see the first claw hit go out, you'll actually end up healing up the damage from the second claw hit due to the delay between your view and the servers view of things.

It's normal that the claws post-Thermionic Beam give you some trouble while the ones cast after Bahamut's Favour are easier to heal (relatively speaking). Make sure you hit up that E4E well before Nael even goes for Iron Chariot, to make sure there's enough time to have it proc (will be up for 20s anyway). Your tank's CD rotation and gear as well as what the WHM is doing contribute to this a lot, too. Like, is there a Stoneskin + Cure 2 combo by the WHM or not, etc. Also, I guess whether or not you run a group of PLD/WAR also makes a difference. We had to solotank T9 this week due to our OT WAR's absence and while it wasn't bad, you could definitely feel the lack of Storm's Path.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

...giving me no time to spam Adlo and I have to blow all of my stacks on Lustrate.

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Sounds like you might need to have a talk with your co-healer.

This is what I do for Claws; odd-numbers are after Favor, even-numbers are after Thermionic:

1 - Rampart
2 - Sentinel
3 - Rampart
4 - Hallowed
5 - Rampart
6 - Sentinel

Further than that, and you're usually battling the enrage timer. Typically Virus is used on the Favor claws as it's very telegraphed and easy to hit. Any of your other "light" cooldowns (Foresight Conv Awareness Bulwark) can be popped alongside Ramp or Sent at your leisure to ease healers; Foresight Conv and Awareness will be available again on the 3rd claw after using it, Bulwark on the 4th. I'll typically do (assuming you popped nothing in heavensfall phase)...

1 - Rampart + Foresight + Awareness
2 - Sentinel + Bulwark
3 - Rampart + Conv
4 - Hallowed
5 - Rampart + Foresight + Awareness
6 - Sentinel + Bulwark + Conv

You can also use a HQ Vit Xpot as a pseudo-cooldown; at 270s cooldown it can generally only be used once in this phase.

Definitely iron stuff out between healers; this is a very chaotic phase to heal for the first time so try to cut corners where you can. Let Medica2/Whispering Dawn (if you use Eos) tick when they can. There isn't a ton of damage going out for most of this phase until the Claws, Supernova->Thermionic, and Meteor Streams. This is why I don't advise using Conv for the first Favor claws; healers are still usually transitioning mentally in this time so mitigation matter a little more than heal+.

Keep in mind that Claw is basically just 5 auto-attacks in a row strung together, and Nael will also be auto-attacking in this period (and while Claw cannot crit, AAs can). So a 5-hit claw is more like 6-7 hits.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend I'm solo healing. I just want to know what I can or should be doing better there. We've wiped at 4% a couple of times now but most of the time it's on the first Favour cycle.

My gear is: Average i103

Book of Diamonds
Weathered Daystar Circlet
Daystar Robe
Weathered Daystar Gloves
Weathered Daystar Belt
Weathered Daystar Breeches
Weathered Daystar Sollerets
Ribbon of Healing
High Allagan Earrings of Healing
Weathered Daystar Armillae
Judgment Ring of Healing
Daystar Ring

Edit: Wow, all I did was give more information as requested. Should've expected nothing less from these forums.

Without even looking at that I'm going to tell you: for healing, gear will not fix problems. Only that the heals are actually going out. The difference between i90 and i110 for Phys/Adlo/Cure2 is barely 300/150/450.

Pre-Adlo before claws, Adlo during claws, optional Lustrate, have Embrace going off early if you can. Is what I would do (I've done up to Heavensfall as SCH but I've had to go PLD MT on wins and I don't pay exact attention to what my healers are doing).

To the OP, perhaps a swiftcast Aldo will help for more mitigation once the initial one drops off.

Can someone please give me recommended cooldowns for Warrior tank for Bahamut's claw? My static will be starting this and our warrior will be MT with a PLD OT. I see a lot of guides for paladin MT but haven't found any for a warrior.

I have healed 4 coming on 5 T9 Wins (Seravi as my tank) and 1 on my ALT SCH.

I pre Adlo as you have around 5-6 seconds before she starts casting claw, I get my debuffs like Shadow Flare, Bio etc on and Pre Adlo, then I usually Adlo once during and Lustrate if needs.
If your tank also pops certain cool-downs it shouldn't be much of a worry!

Only time I've had to lustrate bomb is we pushed Favour during Heavens Fall so when the WHM was dodging I was Lustrating xD

If you want to see how it played out,

http://www.twitch.tv/jb2378/b/551942382

2:26:45, not my perspective (I can barely run this game at 15 FPS) so it may be hard to see what I'm doing but this was one of our better attempts. There's a whole 5 hours of fail in there if anyone cares to watch that long though.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

To the OP, perhaps a swiftcast Aldo will help for more mitigation once the initial one drops off.

Can someone please give me recommended cooldowns for Warrior tank for Bahamut's claw? My static will be starting this and our warrior will be MT with a PLD OT. I see a lot of guides for paladin MT but haven't found any for a warrior.

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This is mostly theorycraft based on the cooldown timers, not actual experience, but...

-Inner Beast should be up for every single claw, Storm's Path also when possible.
-Foresight is usable again 2 claws after, like Rampart is for PLD.
-Vengeance/ToB/Convalescence/Awareness are usable again in 3 claws.
-Second Wind, while not a major "mitigation" cooldown, can be used every 3 claws and should cancel out half of a single claw.
-Holmgang can be used again in 4 claws (but not to be relied on).
-The aformentioned HQ VIT Xpot is an option.

So my suggestion would be...

1 - Foresight + ToB
2 - Vengeance + Awareness + Second Wind
3 - Foresight + Conv
4 - ToB
5 - Foresight + Awareness + Second Wind
6 - Vengeance + Conv

Feel free to refine; like I said this is mostly an "on-paper" rotation. Would save holmgang for an even-numbered claw set or emergency use for last 5% or something.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

This is mostly theorycraft based on the cooldown timers, not actual experience, but...

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Thanks so much!

I warrior tank with a pld OT for our group. I am pretty sure I could solo tank the fight but there really is no need to unless we drop the pld OT all together and make him come DPS so we do something like this.

First claw is Vengeance + IB + SP
Second claw is Thrill of Battle + IB + SP + Convolencense
Third claw PLD OT taunts when favor is being cast and pops hallowed. I taunt after I see 3-4 attacks go out and then by the time its back on me the claw is normally over.
Fourth claw I Vengance + IB + SP + Foresight (this is the claw everyone has to run in for dynamo so poping all that is a little overkill but it helps the healers out).
Fifth claw PLD OT taunts when favor is being cast and pops sentinel and rampart and convalescence. (this is pretty easy to heal as well)

We normally don't get a 6th claw because the fight is dead by then but I would have thrill+IB and anything else that was off cd popped at that point.

This way the pld only needs to be healed for 1 claw and its pretty light considering how much damage reduction is popped at one time. I always take the even claws because swapping then is chaotic with the dive bombs and we have found it easier to just do the swaps during favor since nothing is going on. Using 2 tanks this way makes it so you pretty much have overkill cooldowns for every claw as well. As long as you are brining 2 tanks I would highly recommend doing this way.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

This is mostly theorycraft based on the cooldown timers, not actual experience, but...

3 - Foresight + Conv
5 - Foresight + Awareness + Second Wind

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From experience I could tell you these would be VERY dicey and mostly on your healers to survive if you only had foresight popped. You could almost expect to have to use benediction for this. Foresight is only a 7%~ damage reduction. It would be possible since you still have the 20% + 10% from IB and SP. They will have to have probably pre cast stoneskin and adlo to survive comfortably.

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Originally Posted by Vire

I warrior tank with a pld OT for our group. I am pretty sure I could solo tank the fight but there really is no need to unless we drop the pld OT all together and make him come DPS so we do something like this.

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Really didn't mean to hijack the thread but saw some good tanking tips and wanted more. Thanks a lot for so much detail in your response. I hope it helps the OP as well. I didn't know how claw is handled and am glad this thread was started. I'll certainly be checking it for further tips.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If you want to see how it played out,

http://www.twitch.tv/jb2378/b/551942382

2:26:45, not my perspective (I can barely run this game at 15 FPS) so it may be hard to see what I'm doing but this was one of our better attempts. There's a whole 5 hours of fail in there if anyone cares to watch that long though.

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It's your WHM, I watched his PoV and as a t9 winning WHM I find him sorely lacking in MP management and precasting cures. I also watched his "clear video" but that SCH fold is very good, and carried him, (the whm had literally no MP in last phase).

You could make up for his slack but you will need to adapt your play style to not relying on him.

Favor comes out at the same times always, pop a stone skin and an adlo before hand, then physick >lustrate. Or play with a solid WHM partner.

Your tank just needs to be very vocal when the Favour is coming to her so she can let you know what CDs she has up. If she has stronger CDs up, you can be a little more frivolous with your healing and less so if she has weaker, or none, up. I don't believe you should use Virus on the first set if at all possible, and try to tell your team not to do the same. That might alleviate some of the healing required in the harder parts of the fight.

Or as some have said, get a WHM who isn't slacking.

Tanks that aren't using cooldowns (or have none) will be taking a lot of damage even with Virus and Eye for an Eye (rng) up. That being said, your White Mage should always Cure III during laser as it's GCD efficient, plus you need all the HP you can get for the claws.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I don't believe you should use Virus on the first set if at all possible, and try to tell your team not to do the same. That might alleviate some of the healing required in the harder parts of the fight

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^ This. And totally off-topic, but Exstal, are you the same Exstal from Aion?

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Originally Posted by CeeTwo

Favor comes out at the same times always, pop a stone skin and an adlo before hand, then physick >lustrate.

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So save Virus for the second claw and don't Adlo in the middle of it? Doesn't matter anymore since I likely won't be going back into T9 until 2.4 ... but I'd like to keep it in mind anyways ...

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Originally Posted by Exstal

your raid team

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...

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Originally Posted by Parawill

^ This. And totally off-topic, but Exstal, are you the same Exstal from Aion?

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That is so.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

So save Virus for the second claw and don't Adlo in the middle of it? Doesn't matter anymore since I likely won't be going back into T9 until 2.4 ... but I'd like to keep it in mind anyways ...

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You should only give up going back in if your raid team has disbanded. Otherwise, never give up, never surrender.