Common courtesy: apparently not so common.

Every now and then I stop my mad pursuit of gil for my FC's mansion to be charitable. To help people. Yet people are making it hard to do so. Case in point; crafters. And no, I'm not talking about the crafters themselves, but the people wanting crafters to make things for them. Case in point; these new craftable primal weapons. I've crafted a few of them; by the time you're done just working the weapon itself, you have little wiggle room for quality increases; it's a VERY hard synthesis to HQ, unless you get lucky. Also, just getting your crafting to the level needed to even ATTEMPT the craft takes time, dedication, and gil. Yet these days, even asking so much to be compensated for the crystals used has people act like you spit in their faces. If this was just a one-time thing, this thread wouldn't have been made. It's happened multiple times to me, and upon asking, has happened multiple times to other high-level crafters I know. Conclusion? Make your own items, you horrible people.

What you don't have the 100% 8* macro! I spit on the grave of my broken items! It's HQ or NQ (No quallity!)

but seriously... People treat crafters with as much respect as the developers do, they are third class citizens in the Raiding party marginalized to vanity. I'm sure if crafters preformed some function beyond vanity in the game people would have more respect for them.

Still that's no excuse to treat people like dirt.

I like to pay the people who craft me stuff. Always have (I remember paying 70K to have my Vanya Robe and Hat made...that was soooo long ago and that 70K was nearly all of my gil) Most people don't understand just what it takes to make the top-tier crafts of the current patch; I have all crafters at 50 but I haven't gone much further due to the cost (time and gil...mostly time, just don't have enough right now)

I do charge people for crafts normally (not really much, usually just enough to cover mat cost. And if its something with a mat I don't have on hand I usually require the mat or the gil to buy it), though if they provide all mats or its a really cheap craft I may not. Most people do pay me something even if I don't ask, or ask what I want for it. But I'm crafting low-level gear, SB gear or mats, and the people asking are mostly people I know...

Similar thing goes for melding; I don't charge for melds (they don't cost me anything anyway) but most people do tip (I used to always tip when I needed melds done too)

Just finally became a 3 star goldsmith, the cost in both time, mats, mateira, and shards/crystals was nuts. I cant even imagine doing a synth for someone unless they provided the crystals at this point, esp since people only seem to be putting them up in stacks of 1k on sarg, I dont want 1000 shards i want 100-200 usually and its a gil sink and they know it. People that dont craft generally have crystals and shards to spare, If its a Cluster and i know the person I might go gather them myself since i dont keep clusters on hand.

That's a lovely generalization you have there.

This comes up a lot but I'm going to have to say it...

I can understand paying you for your time in actually making the item requested , I can understand compensating you for the crystals, I get even giving you a "Finder's Fee" if you have to get some of the mats... These are all things I do.

But seriously it is not my responsibility to compensate you for your leveling process, stop whining about how much it cost you to level up, yes it cost you a lot of money to level up and gear to be a 3 star crafter, but No one forced you to do it so stop wording it like everyone should pay you back because you so graciously decided to become a crafter.

Seriously it's not like my employer factors in how much it cost me to go to Culinary School when they decided how much they're willing to pay me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

This comes up a lot but I'm going to have to say it...

I can understand paying you for your time in actually making the item requested , I can understand compensating you for the crystals, I get even giving you a "Finder's Fee" if you have to get some of the mats... These are all things I do.

But seriously it is not my responsibility to compensate you for your leveling process, stop whining about how much it cost you to level up, yes it cost you a lot of money to level up and gear to be a 3 star crafter, but No one forced you to do it so stop wording it like everyone should pay you back because you so graciously decided to become a crafter.

---

No ones saying "Look I'm 3 star give me Gil", were only asking for what you say your offering, covering all the costs of crafting including the crystals, and a tip for making it for you. Market board is a different beast and ill happily gouge with the best of them, but if someone comes to me asking for a carbuncle clock and has all the mats ill happily make it for them for a few k to cover my time and gear wear.

My usual policy on 2* and 3* crafts is "want something? Grab me the philo/myth mats and I'll make it for ya." If it's someone I know I'll usually do it for free if they get me, say, the 9 coke I need to make a darksteel haubergeon. Otherwise I'll charge probably 10-15k, maybe 20-25k for a 3* item, as I'd be getting all the other stuff myself (including things like scarlet sap). I'm a little surprised at the idea of requesting the crystals used though, but maybe that's because I'm a 2* botanist and I can get those things really easily. It's usually very few crystals for a craft after all, even a Vanya item only takes 12 wind crystals (for the twinthread) and then a couple of clusters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

Seriously it's not like my employer factors in how much it cost me to go to Culinary School when they decided how much they're willing to pay me.

---

No, but he's paying for the skill that you learned by going to that culinary school.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seoulstar

That's a lovely generalization you have there.

---

This.

(10 short)

If it makes you feel any better, I farm shards quite a lot when I'm bored and watching things on youtube.
I always put them on in stacks of 100 and always at half the price of the cheapest available one at the time.

I leveled carpenter to 50 during the first month of release and know how hard it is when people want you to buy 1000000 ice shards and you only need 3.
I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that thinks of the crafters. You guys get a bum deal.

As a matter of principal I always ask for Crystals and Clusters up front. If they are not forthcoming with said catalysts, I return their items to them and tell them to find somebody else to craft for them. Most of the time they accept it but you do get a few people who get quite vocal about how they are entitled to use your crafting skills.

I would suggest on the occasion you meet these people you tell them where to put it, because people like that deserve it. Don't generalise though. The majority of people I've crafted for always provide the Crystals and usually thank me for my time, usually in the form of a tip. As always, a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else. Don't be fooled. There are {generally speaking} more people who actually appreciate crafters than don't. :)

With all this in mind, there is a difference between a request from a client, an offer to a client, and a favor for a friend. I handle each situation accordingly.

My only sticking point is when crafters (regardless of game) advertise that they accept tips, but tips are mandatory. It ceases becoming a tip when the fee is mandatory. It becomes a service fee at that point. Which I don't mind paying (I often try to provide a tip + mats when I require the services of a crafter). I just wish some of these crafters were a bit more honest in their advertisement for their services.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noshpan

My only sticking point is when crafters (regardless of game) advertise that they accept tips, but tips are mandatory. It ceases becoming a tip when the fee is mandatory. It becomes a service fee at that point. Which I don't mind paying (I often try to provide a tip + mats when I require the services of a crafter). I just wish some of these crafters were a bit more honest in their advertisement for their services.

---

This is perfectly understandable, people should be completely upfront about any expectations. This is why I accept (and I do not request) a tip for services offered, and I charge a fee for services requested (though providing the mats can lower the fee).

The simple solution is to ask for all mats up front, including the crystals. If they whine, simply say, "I'd love to help you out, but I ran out of crystals." And of course if you're wishing to be compensated for it, ask it up front.

This reminds me of my deployment to Egypt. We were warned that if we purchased a service from a vendor, to get everything paid up front. See.. what they'll do is offer to take your picture on a camel. Its a dollar to get on the camel. Its ten dollars to get off. Five dollars to get your picture taken. And in the case of one guy in the unit, eighty dollars to get his camera back. In the western world, thats extortion. In that part of the world, business as usual.

Point being, make sure you are up front about the cost of the craft. Its borderline extortion to make someone an item, dangle it in front of them and ask for payment. Especially if they gave any mats for it.