:cool: Test of General Knowledge: Enmity(Rage) not only Tanks

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07-27-2014, 12:23 AM
Oni_Akuma

:cool: Test of General Knowledge: Enmity(Rage) not only Tanks

Hello everyone:
I wanna know if anyone has the proper insight for Tanking. I know some do and some don't and sometimes people don't understand why or why not the tank can't aggro the other mob fast enough. I will care to explain but first I want to know do the people understand that mechanic and how it affects their groups?

I will edit the line below or make another post about Enmity in this thread:
__________________________________________________________________________
07-27-2014, 12:50 AM
Altonfenri

I'm.... Not quite sure what you are asking for.... But it almost sounds like you want a broad explanation of how enmity works?
07-27-2014, 01:19 AM
Oni_Akuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altonfenri

I'm.... Not quite sure what you are asking for.... But it almost sounds like you want a broad explanation of how enmity works?

No I wanna know if people do understand it. How it accumulates and etc.
07-27-2014, 01:24 AM
ForteXX

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/

There you go.
07-27-2014, 01:28 AM
KingOfAbyss

So that you can say that your way is better, putting them to shame, or just helping everyone?

If the latter: why don't you go and edit it with your knowledge.

Fear of people that will be against?

Sigh.

For enmity, ask your healer. He knows how to get some.

EDIT: Ok, after seeing that you are only a monk, and trying to lvl tank classes, seems your question was legitimate as you want to collect info from everyone and then make it on a single post so that you can refer to it.

There is 2 aggro meters for you to check.

1- You should be aware as a DPS about the one on the monster bar that starts green, yellow, orange with a triangle and a red square.

A trick is to let the tank accumulate a bit of aggro on him before you start rushing on the mob. Like a rotation or 2 flash.

2- Everytime you click on a single mob: check your party. You should see a small white bar under everyone name, on the most left, with A on you (you posses the most aggro on the mob) then 2, 3, 4, etc..

Getting aggro, and keeping it are 2 things to look for.

It's a team game: Before you engage, if you see the healer cast regen on you, remove it. Else the mobs will go to your healer, since that 'generated' Hate even before you pull.

DPS needs to wait a bit before engaging: it won't kill anyone, and ensure you maintain aggro, and for themselves: they won't die.

So if more than one mob, you need not only check the colour on your enemy bar, but I click on each one to see who's 2nd and how close they are to take aggro from you.

Then you can use a skill to hit them, flash, and then go back to the next one.

More can be added, but I think to better experiment it is to get into it, and practice.

Focus on Melee DPS: check what they are hitting a bit more, and do a rotation on them, or your best shot that gives the more aggro, as per ForteXX nice link.

For AOE, if you see a Flare or Holy, just use another Flash right after.

It's far from complete, but I hope that helps.
07-27-2014, 01:30 AM
Elven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

No I wanna know if people do understand it. How it accumulates and etc.

It doesn't matter about accumulation because if you know how the hate table works you can take it off anyone. Bare in mind I'm only accounting for tanks.
07-27-2014, 01:31 AM
Eye_Gore

All one needs to know is don't let the bars fill up, if your bar is filling up or almost full back off a little and let the tank pull more. If its staying low DPS away. Unless of course someone wants to be the hero and just fills up their bar and does it all themselves. Rather simple.
07-27-2014, 01:34 AM
SeraviEdalborez

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteXX

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/

There you go.

Only thing with these tables is some modifiers are outdated; ShOath and Defiance are now 3x, Steel Cyclone is 2x I believe?
07-27-2014, 02:06 AM
Malzian

I only have a few little things to say in this, since most of this is known...

First, while the table mechanics are well known, the actual process is dynamic. Depends on party make up, positioning, gear, party tactics (all DPS on one mob vs. multi-kill). You need to be flexible as a tank and deal with the situation as it changes.

Second, if your tank loses aggro on a mob, don't go wacko and run all over the map while still attacking said mob. Bring it to the tank and stop attacking it until the tank regains control, you're not being helpful otherwise.

Lastly, provoke only puts you at the top of your party's enmity table, not the table in general. So for any time I hear someone say, "I was doing (some open world content) and a tank came up, provoked it off me and reset it!" All I have to say is...
https://forums.oneplus.net/attachmen...o-3-jpg.34997/
07-27-2014, 02:24 AM
Oni_Akuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteXX

There you go.

Thanks, Now here's what I'm trying to explain.

Here's a Scenario:

Fighting Garuda Extreme:

2 Tanks, 2 Healers and 4 DPS is the layout.

Now what you showed me was what tanks do to build rage. Now there are times where DPS get the Rage. Why is that (I already know the answer)

When Tanks are pulling Chirada and Suprana away, they don't keep tabs of how much Rage they are accumulating:

Chirada:/Enmity

OT: 4305/Enm.
DPS1: 4200/Enm.
DPS2: 3876/Enm.
DPS3: 3768/Enm
DPS4: 2634

The DPS also create and accumulate rage while attacking. So everyone must be at full Sync and know if they are doing too much that they may out aggro the Tank.

Now the MT has Garuda already pulled and is keeping up the aggro, and OT needs to pull the add Suprana now: (Takes too long to pull)

Reason being is the MT accumulated at least 5k rage on Suprana and therefore the OT needs to build enough rage and pass that 5k Mark for him to even pull Suprana.
07-27-2014, 02:27 AM
SeraviEdalborez

You just described the exact scenario Provoke is designed for. Also by that point a tank is usually miles ahead of DPS on enmity.
07-27-2014, 02:33 AM
Oni_Akuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

You just described the exact scenario Provoke is designed for. Also by that point a tank is usually miles ahead of DPS on enmity.

I understand that and your right. But what im noticing is the tanks over aggro the adds and making the OT pull that much harder.
07-27-2014, 02:34 AM
Billzey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Thanks, Now here's what I'm trying to explain.

Here's a Scenario:

Fighting Garuda Extreme:

2 Tanks, 2 Healers and 4 DPS is the layout.

Now what you showed me was what tanks do to build rage. Now there are times where DPS get the Rage. Why is that (I already know the answer)

When Tanks are pulling Chirada and Suprana away, they don't keep tabs of how much Rage they are accumulating:

Chirada:/Enmity

OT: 4305/Enm.
DPS1: 4200/Enm.
DPS2: 3876/Enm.
DPS3: 3768/Enm
DPS4: 2634

The DPS also create and accumulate rage while attacking. So everyone must be at full Sync and know if they are doing too much that they may out aggro the Tank.

Now the MT has Garuda already pulled and is keeping up the aggro, and OT needs to pull the add Suprana now: (Takes too long to pull)

Reason being is the MT accumulated at least 5k rage on Suprana and therefore the OT needs to build enough rage and pass that 5k Mark for him to even pull Suprana.

I think you're the one who doesn't understand how enmity works. Provoke will match the enmity of whoever is highest on the enmity list; thus, provoke > shield lob will always pull the mob off whomever, assuming that the person with highest enmity does not continue accruing enmity.

Furthermore, I think you're using a very odd strategy for garuda extreme. There's really no reason to pull suparna off the MT at any point in the fight. It's also much easier just to leave chirada alive and kill suparna first these days.
07-27-2014, 02:41 AM
ElHeggunte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

- - - -

I'm having a difficult time figuring out what you're asking and what your point is. If you're trying to teach people how enmity works, just say it. If you're trying to learn how to tank, just ask. All of this asking "How do you think this works" and replying with "ah-ha, this is really how it works!" when someone replies is tiresome.
07-27-2014, 02:43 AM
Oni_Akuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billzey

I think you're the one who doesn't understand how enmity works. Provoke will match the enmity of whoever is highest on the enmity list; thus, provoke > shield lob will always pull the mob off whomever, assuming that the person with highest enmity does not continue accruing enmity.

Furthermore, I think you're using a very odd strategy for garuda extreme. There's really no reason to pull suparna off the MT at any point in the fight. It's also much easier just to leave chirada alive and kill suparna first these days.

Thanks, I main DPS, So the Server is in desperate need to progress so I'm making a tank.
07-27-2014, 02:57 AM
Malzian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Thanks, I main DPS, So the Server is in desperate need to progress so I'm making a tank.

All servers need more tanks, it's one of the main dungeon issues with this game.
07-27-2014, 03:56 AM
Chibionieko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malzian

Lastly, provoke only puts you at the top of your party's enmity table, not the table in general.

Note in CT and ST it will put you at the top of your Alliances list not just your parties. So don't be that guy that provokes off the main tank to show off.
07-27-2014, 04:05 AM
Malzian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibionieko

Note in CT and ST it will put you at the top of your Alliances list not just your parties. So don't be that guy that provokes off the main tank to show off.

Yeah, I know. I don't like that stuff either, like in CM or Prae where there's a tank new to the run trying to take MT even when I'm at Animus....
07-27-2014, 10:08 AM
Alistaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malzian

Lastly, provoke only puts you at the top of your party's enmity table, not the table in general. So for any time I hear someone say, "I was doing (some open world content) and a tank came up, provoked it off me and reset it!" All I have to say is...
https://forums.oneplus.net/attachmen...o-3-jpg.34997/

That's a cool story, bro...cause it's not true. In fact, I have no idea where you got that or if you just "figured it out" yourself. Test in CT/ST, you can certainly provoke off another party, and as someone who has reset mobs off people not in their party, I can confirm your story...is just a story.

As for OP, you really come off like you're here to teach.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/7300790/ shows you're in no position to do so.
07-27-2014, 11:29 AM
ForteXX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

That's a cool story, bro...cause it's not true. In fact, I have no idea where you got that or if you just "figured it out" yourself. Test in CT/ST, you can certainly provoke off another party, and as someone who has reset mobs off people not in their party, I can confirm your story...is just a story.

As for OP, you really come off like you're here to teach.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/7300790/ shows you're in no position to do so.

Actually, he is correct. In CT/ST, it counts the alliance as 1 party. In anything non-raid, provoke only does your party's max emnity +1.
07-27-2014, 11:37 AM
Alistaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteXX

Actually, he is correct. In CT/ST, it counts the alliance as 1 party. In anything non-raid, provoke only does your party's max emnity +1.

Well then hunts have special rules cause I've done it and seen it done countless times. And if that's the case, and what he's saying is only right in anything else in the open world, who really cares?
07-27-2014, 12:24 PM
Malzian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Well then hunts have special rules cause I've done it and seen it done countless times. And if that's the case, and what he's saying is only right in anything else in the open world, who really cares?

Sadly it's true, have tried to save dying players with provoke to no avail. However with hunts there's a nasty little trick to it. If you have 3 it more tanks, what you do is go all Emnity mode (Shied Oath/Defiance). First tank runs in, hits Flash for a huge Emnity boost, next tank hits Provoke to put him at that +1, hits Flash to double it, third tank hits Provoke to go to the new level +1, Flash... Provoke... Call it "Emnity Leap Frog". You can build up a -lot- of Emnity for your party really, really quickly this way.
07-27-2014, 01:23 PM
StouterTaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

I wanna know if anyone has the proper insight for Tanking. I know some do and some don't and sometimes people don't understand why or why not the tank can't aggro the other mob fast enough. I will care to explain but first I want to know do the people understand that mechanic and how it affects their groups?

This reminds me of so many conversations with my boss. What you are basically saying is: "I had this conversation you weren't a part of, and I'm going to assume that you know everything about it even though I don't." Blank stare plus two questions he doesn't have the answer to normally ends the conversation.