Coil of Bahamut ( Practice Mode )

Dear Dev. Team / community manager .

Could you please tell Mr.Yoshida to make SCOB or future coil of bahamut a practice mode?

ummm let me tell the reason why we need practice mode :

1. for some expert player (which already clear SCOB t6~t9 on every reset day) they can't do anything "fun"(serious fight) other than primals battle , you know every expert player mostly shout something like "we lack of high-end content" .

we don't need the loot reward for it just make us can re-enter it over and over to help other player learn / create some new strategy

2. as I mention about helping other player , recently I talking to my old FC friends . when i ask his progression about SCOB suddenly i feel bad asking about it. he says "everyone already practicing t7~t8 in this FC , only me still stuck on t6 . can't make the static party and it's rare to see PF practice T6 all says clear only so i didn't dare to enter" .

I really want help him to practice , but since my both character already have a static party and yet both of them already finish SCOB I can't help him :( , I can't keep create new character to help my friend clearing coil :(


3. for some extreme player (yes, extreme player) which had almost all character lv 50 with good gear . there's really no option to use their alt.jobs for high-end content battle except primals battle . with practice mode , like i said before we can try new strategy like swapping our jobs try other class for fun :)

4. if the developer say "later the story will be spoiled / about loot / etc" ok here's the point ,
- remove all cutscene on practice mode
- make the req. to enter practice mode to unlock the real version 1st (except t6 (or just make t5 as the req.)) ex: if u want enter t7 practice u must clear t6 real version 1st
- no need rewards loot , or if dev.team want put some reward just put myth or soldi a bit.
- make both savage / normal version practice so even the expert player can trade some info/exp about savage mode battle.

please if this approved , just apply it to later new raids so every new coil we(the one with good party/exp) can help other new player / player with/out good team to learn the fight.

P.S : sry for my bad english language :p and please upvote this + give your extra opinion if you have :D

Hi Mariel!

I agree this should be implemented in some way. Seeing 2.4 would release the ending the of Binding Coil I would assume it will be longer based on lore, hoping at least 6 turns. Most of the player base wont be able to get halfway through by expansion if my speculations are correct that the expansion would be released after 2.5.

I too would like to help my fellow FC and LS mates without the cost of sacrificing my own progression on a given week.

Might wanna not use the [petition] thingy, I don't think the devs are very fond of it.
But this is something that can be implemented surely, we have those fighting games where you're invincible and the boss is, too. So you can practice rotations and dodging while both you and the boss' health doesn't drop, and you can skip to phases.
Or when the boss dies, there's no cutscene, only goes back to the start of the encounter or even go back to 100% health..

I'm still a fan of having a loot limit like crystal tower rather than this lockout business, for exactly all of your reasons. Then people can still practice without farming.

i agree tbh

the most fun im having already is clearing T6 - T9 at reset and nothing to do the rest of the week

I really like this idea. Gives people a chance to learn the fights.

Should be good yeah. I don't see why not.
This would allow people to help their friends without afraid of locking.

Adventurer: Hello Mr. Monsters! Don't mind us we're just here to practice fighting you so that when we really come to kill you, you'll die easier! No hard feelings yeah? D:?

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Originally Posted by Exguard

Adventurer: Hello Mr. Monsters! Don't mind us we're just here to practice fighting you so that when we really come to kill you, you'll die easier! No hard feelings yeah? D:?

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well basicly we just want help the new player learning "how to fight"... even u already clear it u know its still hard...not gonna easier since no Echo buff applied or anything... your gear still same , your damage still same , the monster hp still same... nothing change .... learning not giving u an extra damage so its still not gonna drastically easier...

I really just want encourage all new player to learn SCOB especially the one without static... some of them are really scare to make mistake when join PF (CLEAR ONLY) and almost all PF right now using (CLEAR ONLY 3 MISTAKE = KICK/DISBAND) , in the end they gonna give up if something like this keep going happen....

If the "practice mode" version is non-progression and non-loot, it's a good idea...
Non-progression also implies that you enter from the start every time you enter, having to clear trash all the way to boss every time.
And clearing one turn in "practice mode" means you can't enter next turn without clear it for real during the current progression week.

No progression, no loot, no cutscenes or any story... Just enter and learn from people that have cleared it. Assuming that people would actually help teach it since they get no loot for doing it.

Good idea!

I would love to do coil on my alt jobs not for the gear but the experience.

I'm with others, as long as there is no progression (which includes story as for some that is the important part of progression, and this needs to be as fair as possible), no loot, and you can't enter a training turn until you have beat the turn prior in non-practice SCOB.

I would love to try healing t6-9, but my static can't afford for me to switch off dps, and our 2 healer's dps aren't geared enough for this to be a real possibility. This would allow me to try that, and also allow me to help other players practice and get better, which still benefits me because when someone doesn't show and I need to pug a person, well maybe now I can find someone who knows what to do. They get a clear, we get a win without the frustration of a carry, and everyone benefits.

Mmm id love to practice solo healing 6-9 with my friends group whose already cleared for the week. i support this but doubt it'll come to fruition because of some silly reason.

good idea , SE should add "this" feature instead lame echo from start . Coil with bit lifted difficulty for practice/story porpuse with no gear drops and no locks

They could just remove the turn/weekly lockout (no Echo please) seeing as they are throwing everything else out the window for free via The Hunt.

Lol, you want practice, go in there and die and keep fighting until you have it down; then the following week go do it all over again. Practice makes perfect. lolol

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Originally Posted by Vladislav

good idea , SE should add "this" feature instead lame echo from start . Coil with bit lifted difficulty for practice/story porpuse with no gear drops and no locks

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Essentially a "story mode" Coil. This idea has been brought up before, and I would still support it. People don't always need or want the gear, they want the story. The people who actually raid can have their loot. :P As to a full-on practice mode that isn't a bad idea either but a story mode version would make more sense.

A practice mode would be greatly welcome. It would also help lower the amount of harassment in game.

I like this idea. Maybe the battle will be slower and have pop ups to tell you what's about to happen.

If they can take the time to make savage mode, I don't see why not make practice mode.

Pop ups to tell you whats about to happen......really

Pls leave it as is, and your practice mode will happen when they release new turns.

A large group of the community would benefit form this and actually wants this since this subject pops up about every month. However, if they were to add practice modes, the current SCoB farmers would clear the next tier within 2 weeks.

I think that endgame content should have some value to it. When everything is cleared in the first or second week, it kind of takes that away. I'm very much for your idea. I just can't think of something which would complement both teaching your FC/buddies and keeping the value. I also can't think of another, respected MMO where endgame does not have a weekly lockout.

I like your point about multiple jobs. They basically are mannequins which you put gear on looted with your main.

or... everyone could just wait for 2.4 when 3rd coil is released and 2nd coil will most likely get its lock out removed and slowly get echo. Seeing as 1st coil had that happened when 2nd coil released, im sure they will do this again. That will be your practice mode, cept now you get rewards, have it easier with echo, can have people who have cleared it carry you, and/or buy your runs.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

...can have people who have cleared it carry you, and/or buy your runs.

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This is part of the problem, really. If you have people carry you all the time or buy runs instead of actually learning to do the runs properly then you only hurt yourself in the long run since you never actually progress your own skill level. Personally I say, "Just run it", but that can be difficult since so many people run hunts instead. And the people who do run Coil in PF (Coil in DF... Ewwwww....) typically aren't looking for learners and want people who know the runs and don't have to worry about learners. It makes people just coming up to the content shy off or be unable to get in at all.

Be better if they implemented you and 7 AI no wait that means everyone would pass the content and therefore no bottleneck oh well nice idea though.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

That will be your practice mode, cept now you get rewards, have it easier with echo, can have people who have cleared it carry you, and/or buy your runs.

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that's not solve all the problem i mention ..

1. if you have extra jobs with you and have a good gear on it. you really don't want to try it for "FUN" a bit in coil? you know static problem is they don't want risk drop dps/healing/tanking etc by switching jobs . having this you can have a extra fun while waiting next content. and if they approve this they also will apply it on 3rd coil later which mean big FC can share strategy & EXP on 3rd coil later.

2. we also talking about social community here, which having a practice mode we can interact with new player which need exp in coil or we can share some unique strategy to other party in your FC/LS . since high-end raid battle is the source of good topic for community too. :D

I fully support this and a great idea. I cannot pass T7 due to lack of groups and if I wanna join a. Group that ask for clear experience they kick u. And this is the people that manage to clear ONCE and are already asking for farm or clear experience only. Then we have the pro wannabes that keep clearing coil with their static and keep shouting how easy it is, but OF COURSE. Is gonna be easy for you if you have a set group to do it. Unfortunately we not all have a static to PRACTICE often. Some believe that because they done T9 They better than others... Deluded tossers. Without your static we all be in the same boat. Harsh words but true hurts.(of course not all statics/people). Then when you ask for help to teach you mechanics they put the excuse they have a static and cannot help even thou it is in duty finder, in other words they can\\'t be arsed.

it's easy to help other learn how to fight you just need to not do your clear run the 1st day after reset and do some practice run before your static run.
once the boss is @5% you've already seen/practiced all of his moves you can just let you wipe to not lock your static members.
it doesnt change anything if you clear your coil 1h after reset or 1h before next reset

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

4. if the developer say "later the story will be spoiled / about loot / etc" ok here's the point ,
- remove all cutscene on practice mode
- make the req. to enter practice mode to unlock the real version 1st (except t6 (or just make t5 as the req.)) ex: if u want enter t7 practice u must clear t6 real version 1st
- no need rewards loot , or if dev.team want put some reward just put myth or soldi a bit.
- make both savage / normal version practice so even the expert player can trade some info/exp about savage mode battle.

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I don't quite understand how you'd like the practice mode to be. If it's a nerfed version of the normal mode then you wouldn't be training on the true content and it'd be pointless. And if it's the same well I don't see the point, as it is already in the game.

A better answer to that problem would be to remove lockouts on coil and to limit the number of loot per player per week (like what is done on ST/CT).

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

I don't quite understand how you'd like the practice mode to be. If it's a nerfed version of the normal mode then you wouldn't be training on the true content and it'd be pointless. And if it's the same well I don't see the point, as it is already in the game.

A better answer to that problem would be to remove lockouts on coil and to limit the number of loot per player per week (like what is done on ST/CT).

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From what I gather, practice mode would be the same as regular, except no loot/lockout/cutscenes. Removing the lockout on Coil and instead going for the 1 piece of loot per week would just invite people to sell Coil runs.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

I don't quite understand how you'd like the practice mode to be. If it's a nerfed version of the normal mode then you wouldn't be training on the true content and it'd be pointless. And if it's the same well I don't see the point, as it is already in the game.

A better answer to that problem would be to remove lockouts on coil and to limit the number of loot per player per week (like what is done on ST/CT).

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because i need this for helping my friend learning.. see all my point 1st.

with practice mode i can bring them live exp how to fight it, how to clear it... not only make a vid see this and try this! then he join PF then got kicked after 3 try or even worse since now the 1st timer rewarded with 100 myth the leader pt will know someone never clear the run, then make fun of him and then kick him.

removing lockout only make people selling the run not teaching how to clear the run. that's already different from my purpose making this petition.

The practice version of coils or any general runs that might come later in the game does seem like a good idea, my friend just started and I know he will have a hard time finding parties at 50 because of those who demand excellence mixed with those who would help but can't due to their progression. I did think about practice modes and there are in a sense some already out there but I think it would be more useful for them to extend on the things that "teach" us.

Guildhests teach us party basics to boss specifics to a certain extend, I think it would be nice for them to put more difficult ones in that teach things from Binding Coil and beyond. This would give people a reason to do the guildhests again, learn about fights without having to take in too much time.

Dungeons already give us some practice, such as the Lost city mob using it's own Floral Trap / Devour / Spit method. Maybe expand on that, but make them add a few more steps, since these fights have such high combinations, merging together two mechanics to get people use to it would make dungeons more of a challenge / more fun for the expert ones and getting their feet wet with the new comers.

I do agree that there should be some way for those who complete their turns to come back and help out, rather than make a whole new practice mode taking the above methods and taking away progression lockouts but adding in loot lockouts all together would accomplish the same things.

I also wonder about how often the practice runs would be used, even with myth and soldiery being used it's still going to get to a point where it's hard to get 8 people to enter, while if you use the three above methods you only need 4 people for the hests and dungeons, the hests will eventually follow the same thing as a practice mode and dwindle down in usefulness but the dungeons will always remain. Thought I guess Yoshi & Co. could always open up the option of adding a very small amount of Elite Marks to those who finish these much higher practices from GuildHests.

So, while I agree on the practice method, I've been down that road and the problems I came in to eventually had me make the above solution that requires both game balance in a sense and gives people the ability to practice. eventually people will want to just practice on T7 - T8 leaving people like your friend and mine again in the dust or new people in general, this way they can use two types of learning curves (Guildhests and Dungeons) that don't require a full 8 and then take it a "step up" to the actual Turn 6, but give these people who want to help a chance to come back down and help out just with no rewards, or a gimped version of soldiery / myths for giggles. Let me state that I did rate you up and I do agree with the practice method in a sense, just after thinking it over myself I came to the above conclusion.

And though removing the lockout would bring in people selling them, you're not going to stop the selling..you can delay it or diminish it for a time being but you can never get rid of it. This is something that needs to be considered. On top of that the whole point would be so the ones who clear whether they're elite or not go back down and help. Even if you give these abilities to go back and help in a practice mode FC's will take their teams into their turns to practice their strategies. So our best bet is to place things that are already on the road map of the game to help the new players out so when the time comes for T6 they can go "Oh this is just like.."

Adding reward for completing an event with someone who hasn't beaten it yet was a step in the right direction. You could also argue that people would use that reward check to see if anyone hasn't beaten it yet. The good thing is that the system isn't telling you who is the person that hasn't beaten it yet so the leader could probably just roll with it instead of spending a long time trying to find out who beat it. Achievements and linking items however seems to function to lock players out that hasn't beaten it yet.

Instead of 100 myth, add another slot of coil items if you have a new player.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

I really just want encourage all new player to learn SCOB especially the one without static... some of them are really scare to make mistake when join PF (CLEAR ONLY) and almost all PF right now using (CLEAR ONLY 3 MISTAKE = KICK/DISBAND) , in the end they gonna give up if something like this keep going happen....

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

2. we also talking about social community here, which having a practice mode we can interact with new player which need exp in coil or we can share some unique strategy to other party in your FC/LS . since high-end raid battle is the source of good topic for community too. :D

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so... whats stopping this social community of all the new players to get together and start their own pf with "learning/practice t6 party"? also If you have 2 characters clearing scob a week. im sure they arent both running at the same time. you know... cause of time? So one of your characters can help your friend with that PF learning/practice session. if there is enough new players with a demands for 2nd coil, they should get together to form a static... or is the social community not able to do all of this and just needs a hand me down practice mode? PF can be practice mode. dont be lazy and say "im scared". no go do it.

I really like this idea! the same should be done for primals too! especially for "extreme mode" fights.

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Originally Posted by Solonuke

Adding reward for completing an event with someone who hasn't beaten it yet was a step in the right direction. You could also argue that people would use that reward check to see if anyone hasn't beaten it yet. The good thing is that the system isn't telling you who is the person that hasn't beaten it yet so the leader could probably just roll with it instead of spending a long time trying to find out who beat it. Achievements and linking items however seems to function to lock players out that hasn't beaten it yet.

Instead of 100 myth, add another slot of coil items if you have a new player.

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I support this. This should encourage experienced players to teach/help players who've yet to clear. They could also introduce a "mentor currency" for redemption of special vanity items, or a title that scales each time you clear selected trials with players who have yet to clear e.g. "Paragon Mentor 04" for someone that has cleared 4 trials with players who have yet to clear.

I like this idea and if loot is locked it wouldn't do any harm.

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Originally Posted by Richiealvian

Might wanna not use the [petition] thingy, I don't think the devs are very fond of it.

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The devs need to put on their big girl\boy panties and deal with requests. Petitions are a good way to show the level of support for a given idea. Sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the players is why XIV bombed so badly to begin with. It's made a comeback, but recent changes that again, didn't take player opinion into account (or that were even tested in a meaningful way) deals blows to an already shaky reputation.

I agree with tiered modes of raiding. It's successful in other games, and can be successful here as well. Perhaps not a training mode, but a mode that has fewer mechanics, lower rewards, and that serves as more of a stepping stone into the hardest content.

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Originally Posted by Legacy_Wolfwood

so... whats stopping this social community of all the new players to get together and start their own pf with "learning/practice t6 party"?

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have you ever try to make practice PF? last time my friend try to make one and the result is nothing almost 3 hours (on weekend and on peek hours) he waiting only a few people join. almost now all PF create "CLEAR ONLY" that's the thing make my friend scared to join.

and both my character already had static party which 1 already full progressing 1 day reset clear , and 1 still teaching my FC mate . and i have so many friends need my help. the only option i have is keep creating new char to help them. some of my friend also forming static with all 0 exp and yet they still have hard time to learn even already watch the vid & guide. this is why i need this mode for help them learn more and knew where exactly they did wrong.