[BLM] On saving procs..

With the 2.3 patch and my static trying to reform right now, I get to be BLM again. To be quite honest, I'm pretty sure I was never that decent at it despite it being my first choice as a dps alternative when I started as a PLD in ARR. I don't think I've had the chance to learn the ins and outs of saving procs pre 2.2. Turn 1,2 and 4 didnt really need me to (because I probably didn't care back then) and I was tanking the first 3 ex primals most of the time.

Anyway, today we had T6 practice with half of the group being new. I took this as a chance to try saving procs but I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. I tried observing rafflesia rotations and saving procs for vines but trying to not lose as much proc /chances/ on it seems rng-ey. So I tried not using the procs at all and just shooting fire1s until I need to move and use fire3 proc during that and even that it's not guaranteed that I will have it (e.g.: proc is on, I'm now casting blizz 3 and about to thunder 2 next, vines is coming and my mind starts shuffling about what to do).

In the end, after about 6 attempts, all ranging between 45-60% remaining of rafflesia's hp (we didn't win), I compared my DPS to our monk. He is i107, I am i102, both with i110 tome weapons. He's pulling 320 while I'm only pulling 270. I don't know how he's affected with the vines and devour marks but I only got marked 2-3 times and got vined alot less than usual but we are not doing the LOS method either. It's probably not enough for any of you to point out anything wrong with my performance but any insights would be appreciated.

TL;DR - Someone tell me why saving procs is better than shooting off every proc I get if it means I might lose more than one proc chances waiting for a chance to use the saved one. Oh and, fight/mechanic specific timing on various fights would be appreciated.

I'm actually a lower ilvl than you but my DPS is sitting around 348. The number one reason for this I'm sure is that I don't save my procs. When it procs, I fire. There's really no reason for you to save them. I can see saving your thundercloud proc for just a few seconds to squeeze out a little more damage with the first thunder you casted but I wouldn't wait so long as to lose the proc. Also, the sooner you use it, the sooner your chance of having another one to use will arrive. Whoever is telling you to save the procs must be a horrible BLM. Saving your procs is never better than shooting them off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMkl_oWFFA8&hd=1
It's not perfect on my part (as I was a bit tired and ill). But if you have questions, just ask them

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMkl_oWFFA8&hd=1
It's not perfect on my part (as I was a bit tired and ill). But if you have questions, just ask them

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That doesn't seem like you're actually saving any procs though. Every time you needed to move, you either cancel your cast and resume casting on position stop. The times that you do use firestarter procs on the move, you seem to be getting them just before you need it. I'm not sure that counts as saving?

I don't see where I claim to save procs. If I have to move and I have a proc -> fantastic. If I have to move and I don't have a proc -> scathe
But there is a lot of nuance. Do I have to move a little bit? - No scathe but just continue rotation after moving a bit. BLM is a reactive class and you just need to play it smart. There is more nuance than this post.

Ya i play both SMN and BLM and i pretty much found out that if you save you wont do good DPS. If you got your procs use them don't stop and keep going. If you moving use scathe too you can start casting again.

Hmm. I see. I never really read too much into BLMs in these forums but I keep seeing people dismissing others who would like to see procs stack because it's unnecessary because "good blms know how to save procs and always have one ready when they need to move" or something.

When people talk about saving proc's the "saving" is only for a few seconds, right before when you know you'll have to move.

turn 6 probably isnt the best fight to practice saving procs for, as they arnt really needed, one of the fights i recommend if you want practice is titan ex, not so much for the movement aspect, though that does help, but for the gaols when you need burst dps.

I only ever save procs if I am in a spell or know that I am going to have to move in a moment. (better than using scathe if you have one) You should never interrupt spell casting for a proc as it is counter productive with the cd. If that is not what they meant than I am unsure of what they are trying to accomplish with saving procs.

Only reason I've really found to specifically save procs is for when you need extra damage in a very short period. Like, if your group is having trouble killing bulbs fast enough in T6, you can watch for bulb timing and save a proc to Fire III the center bulb as soon as it spawns. Similar idea for conflags in T5. Other than that, I don't really see much reason to save procs. When it comes to having to move, generally you want to do as much damage as you can when you're stationary.

proc saving is useful but you have to know when to do it, for instance a good time to save a firestarter is right before thermonic beam from darnus (jump -> iron chariot -> beam) if you get a proc a cast or two before a crucial time to move then its smart to hang on to it as statistically you wont get another on your next cast. It's more important to keep the gcd spinning when you can. But no, don't hold a p roc for 3 or more gcds.

While there are a lot of people who might say things like 'a good BLM knows when to save their procs' and such, generally what these people mean is 'I'm awesome and I have nothing to contribute other than to insult you by saying that what you're having trouble with is easy'. Saving your procs amounts to getting one, knowing that you'll have to move within the next 5 seconds, and casting fire I first because you know you can squeeze it in before you move and use your proc then. It's pretty much never going to be a good idea to hold onto a firestarter or thundercloud for more than 1 or 2 casts. Hell, it's not like they last very long to begin with.

You're probably over thinking it. Just use your procs as you get them (not cancelling to use or anything). If you find yourself in a situation where you get a proc and know that you will have to move very soon then go ahead and save it for that, but more often than not you'll use procs while moving only if you just happen to have them, not because of any intent.

Situation : I'm at the end of my Astral Fire cycles and I start to cast Blizz III immediately, but see I have a firestarter proc.
Do I cancel my Blizz III to launch a Fire III so that I squeeze a little more out of my Astral Fire cycle or do I save it and use it to start my next Astral Fire cycle?

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Originally Posted by AIex

Situation : I'm at the end of my Astral Fire cycles and I start to cast Blizz III immediately, but see I have a firestarter proc.
Do I cancel my Blizz III to launch a Fire III so that I squeeze a little more out of my Astral Fire cycle or do I save it and use it to start my next Astral Fire cycle?

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finish casting blizz 3 -> thunder 2 > transpose (once full mp) > fire 3. This prevents you from losing gcd time and gives you af 1 boost for your firestarter. This the most optimal thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

finish casting blizz 3 -> thunder 2 > transpose (once full mp) > fire 3. This prevents you from losing gcd time and gives you af 1 boost for your firestarter. This the most optimal thing to do.

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to clarify, most of the time you do this, it'll actually be Bliz 3 > Thunder 2 > Bliz I > Transpose, otherwise you're waiting a couple seconds for mp to fill while not casting anything, and even if you end up not being quite full MP because of Blizzard I, it's still less MP spent than the Umbral Ice cost of a Fire III.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

While there are a lot of people who might say things like 'a good BLM knows when to save their procs' and such, generally what these people mean is 'I'm awesome and I have nothing to contribute other than to insult you by saying that what you're having trouble with is easy'. Saving your procs amounts to getting one, knowing that you'll have to move within the next 5 seconds, and casting fire I first because you know you can squeeze it in before you move and use your proc then. It's pretty much never going to be a good idea to hold onto a firestarter or thundercloud for more than 1 or 2 casts. Hell, it's not like they last very long to begin with.

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^ This, too many blm's seem to freak out that if they do not use a proc right away it will be lost, you have time, do not cancel a spell or even you can add a extra fire or 2 before you use Firestarter for example.

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

to clarify, most of the time you do this, it'll actually be Bliz 3 > Thunder 2 > Bliz I > Transpose, otherwise you're waiting a couple seconds for mp to fill while not casting anything, and even if you end up not being quite full MP because of Blizzard I, it's still less MP spent than the Umbral Ice cost of a Fire III.

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This isnt quite right as the blizz 1 is situational mp tick depending.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

This isnt quite right as the blizz 1 is situational mp tick depending.

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That's why I said most, not all. :p