WAR as DPS role possible? *ducks*

Hello!

I'm relatively new to MRD and haven't quite unlocked WAR yet, but I've already noticed what (I think?) is a big difference between FFXI's WAR and FFXIV's WAR: WAR seems to be pigeonholed into being *only* a tank. It's been a long time since I played XI, but I swear I remember being a pretty darn good DPS WAR back in Vana'diel... Now I get the whole two-different games thing. However...

I tried to spec for DPS and get into a small manually created dungeon party with 3 friends (so we could test it out among people we know) while a GLD was the tank. It actually worked really well, but then I was only level 22-ish at the time. Now I don't know how my dmg would have compared to a "true" (as in SE designer-intended) DPS class, but it would be interesting to see how I stacked up...

I get the whole tanking thing -- my FFXIV PLD is 45 on his way to 50 and my old FFXI PLD, WAR, and NIN were all at 76 before I left. Tanking's my thing. Love the whole protector role and all that. But it was really fun to spec for DPS and just unleash on some stuff back with a big old burly great axe in XI -- or hell, even with a great sword (and maybe Joyeuse/Ridill) on PLD. Unfortunately, it seems like the only way I'll be able to enjoy that again is either to group only with friends (not terribly convenient due to play times that don't always sync) or just pick another class. (Shame SAM isn't here...)

I'd really love to *fully* DPS as WAR (as in not even off tanking), but it doesn't look like that will be an option. I suppose I could always bring my gear with me, but then I'd have to keep up yet another set of entirely different gear for DPS instead of tanking. Plus there's the whole setting DPS cross-class actions vs tanking cross-class actions and not being able to quickly switch if something goes bad during a fight...

Apologies if I'm totally going at this the wrong way and majorly screwing things up... Trying to ask the community before I get higher in level and potentially make a royal arse of myself somehow among strangers or worse, wipe a party and waste their time... Any thoughts?

Pre-50 is not really the time to get into STR WAR. Leftside gear doesn't change (significantly) when you swap from DPS spec to tank spec because post-50, gear is completely pigeonholed.

WAR can put out considerable DPS. So can PLD. You do DPS just by existing.

I never played XI, but from what I gather the classes/jobs in this game are entirely different from what they were in XI.

That said, you can put your bonus attribute points in STR (a lot of warriors do this) and keep a set of both tanking (Vitality) and DPS (Strength) jewelry to change out as needed. A STR spec WAR will still fall short of a true DPS, because of the inherent STR traits (tanks get Vit traits) and the boost provided by your job's soul stone. But this is as close as you can get.

There is one other option to consider, depending on how much gil you can make, and that's to get the new item level 90 crafted jewelry and meld materia so you can have both Vit and Str in one set of accessories. I'm not sure if you want to meld Vit on STR accessories or STR on Vit accessories, someone else can likely answer that. I haven't messed around with it so I'm not sure what's optimal.

This can also be done with PLD, though I'm not sure if they are equally effective. I STR spec'd my Warrior, so I run that as "Off tank" role when needed, if I'm main tanking I just switch to PLD.

Hope that helps some.

** also, you can post longer than 1000 characters by clicking Edit Post.

So I should be placing my bonus points after level-ups on WAR all on VIT all the way through to 50? Also just to be clear (and I'm not complaining [ok, maybe a little]), do you mean to say that WAR should focus on tanking until 50? I might just wait on it until later then. I know I could have fun with it (since I like to tank), but it'd kind of be a bummer to play a class for 50 levels just to get to a point where I can play it as a DPS... I mean if that's how it is, then that's how it is. Maybe I'll just pick another class...

Anyway, thanks Seravi.

Unfortunately, you are kind of stuck tanking until lv50, mainly because everything you run up until then is 4-man content where you will be the only tank. So yea, as Seravi said, probably best to wait until 50 before you start changing things around too much. Once you get some relatively decent gear, the extra Vitality is marginal. Early on though it will help until you get all your MRD/WAR abilities.

In SCoB, WAR is probably the only class that can dual role. In T7 if you're not tanking adds you're on the boss doing DPS. Same thing with T8 and 9, although I've heard of people bringing MRD to T9 for extra DPS abilities and to hold Golems better then a normal DPS could (enmity abilities and proper defensive CDs)

In this game each class/job only has one Role: DPS, Tank or Heal. This isn't like FFXI where the role was a fuzzier concept, it's very specific and you're very much pigeonholed into that role. It's not that a WAR or MRD can't do DPS, it's that it's going to be very significantly less than a well played DPS class because the potency of moves and buffs available to those DPS classes is a lot higher than what a tank class/job gets. IE: a well played WAR or MRD in the best gear might pull maybe 300 or so DPS when in their DPS stance (no Defiance), but a well played MNK can pull 500 or so DPS in an equivalent level of gear.

Originally, specs were supposed to be Jobs. You can see this with Arcanist where SCH is your heal spec and SMN is your DPS spec. However, I don't know if they intend to continue this in the future, their messaging on this front has been muddled.

WAR as DPS role possible?

The answer is a straight no.

Simply because it is a Tank role. If you need a DPS spot filled, find a DPS. If not enough DPS and it could be solo-tanked, solo tank it and fill in another DPS.

However, if the instance has to be two tanked or you want to go two tank, then you can look at how to improve tank's DPS output, which WAR can pull a good amount.

But if you are wondering if WAR can ever replace a DPS spot, nope because a proper DPS will out DPS any WAR/PLD unless the DPS is really.... shit :rolleyes:

Thanks for the great information, all. 'Preciate you guys pointing me in the right direction. Shame we're so pigeonholed in this game, but it is what it is. I still really like FFXIV and think I'll still be enjoying it for a long time. That said, however, I may hold off on MRD for a while until well after I hit PLD 50, get some great gear, and then at some point feel like playing a tank job again. (First I need to get CNJ to at least 34 [from 23] for Stoneskin on PLD, and then maybe work on MNK [32] or another true-DPS role...)

I think the term you want to use is "Off-tank" meaning that you won't be taking the hard hits of the boss and will only be there as an assurance for if something goes wrong. I think all "Off-tanks" should spec out in as much str gear as you can get since you won't be taking hits and every little bit helps in some fights. My static is on T9, working on dive bombs, and I'm only there as an pure str off-tank for the ghosts n golems phase. Other than that I'm just dealing damage off defiance. I'm doing around 250-260 so decent damage but no where near what true dps should be doing unless they're dead most of the time lol.

The only thing I can see why people keep talking about WAR being dps is because they see IB crits of 1k+ (or 1.4k in my current gear) and think "damn that's a lot of damage for a tank! I think he can dps".

I have out DPS'd Bards, Black Mages and even Monks on Second Coil playing as Warrior.

Granted some of them might have been quite crappy DPS, but it's not hard to out-DPS a Bard while main tanking.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

I have out DPS'd Bards, Black Mages and even Monks on Second Coil playing as Warrior.

Granted some of them might have been quite crappy DPS, but it's not hard to out-DPS a Bard while main tanking.

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Good bards can hit 330+ you can't begin to say through the course of a fight you can do that as main tank. I would like to see some proof of you doing over 300 sustained on warrior

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Originally Posted by aerolol

I have out DPS'd Bards, Black Mages and even Monks on Second Coil playing as Warrior.

Granted some of them might have been quite crappy DPS, but it's not hard to out-DPS a Bard while main tanking.

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People like this makes my day. Dream on.

BRD in my group do 300+ Damage in SCoB, I would like to see WAR does that while MTing ... if you are please post some SS ;)

He said they were probably crappy DPS.. I've ran t6 a few times with people who couldn't hit 200.. Hell one SMN we had did a whopping 99 DPS (excl garuda, which wasn't much anyways).. Not hard to beat that tanking >.>

he also said,
"Granted some of them might have been quite crappy DPS, but it's not hard to out-DPS a Bard while main tanking." ;S

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Originally Posted by TrivariumOri

Good bards can hit 330+ you can't begin to say through the course of a fight you can do that as main tank. I would like to see some proof of you doing over 300 sustained on warrior

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He may not be lying. A Warrior has roughly 356.80 potency in Defiance if using a perfect rotation (Paladin has a 296.26 potency in Shield Oath using a perfect rotation) and few reasons to interrupt his rotation. If he is using only Str Accessories and has 30 Str he could possibly exceed a Bard's dps.

A Paladin in theory can hit 429 to 477 potency dps in Sword Oath while OTing a Warrior MT.

I was doing 330ish DPS aaccording to someone when I was whacking a dummy for fun. And I didn't go through the defiance stuff so it could have been pushed higher. I could probably hit around 340-350.

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Originally Posted by Makado

I was doing 330ish DPS aaccording to someone when I was whacking a dummy for fun. And I didn't go through the defiance stuff so it could have been pushed higher. I could probably hit around 340-350.

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That was probably burst damage, I know it is possible to reach those numbers for short periods every time fight or flight is up but we are taking about sustained damage not what a paladin can do in 6-10 seconds, raids last longer than 10 seconds.

No need to duck. If you form a 4/8 man party you can do whatever you want. If you use the DF the answer is no. The only thing you can sign up for is Tank and you will be expected to Tank.

as MRD can reach 440+ for the 30sec burst that I have, afterward it goes down to 270-300. you will not go MRD however in raids, but again WAR burst DPS as off tank with right gear can peak at 400 for 30sec if you do your rotation right. it is very much an advantage that you can use for example on turn 9 or even on T6 coil.
but to play as MT + getting 300+ DPS you will be dreaming, it can not happen and will not happen, your defiance will surely nerf your damage.

Pretty much. Both PLD and WAR can hit close to 300 in their dps stance but at that point why didn't you just bring a monk who can do over 500+.

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Originally Posted by Vire

Pretty much. Both PLD and WAR can hit close to 300 in their dps stance but at that point why didn't you just bring a monk who can do over 500+.

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A) There's no need to if you're clearing anyways.
B) The OT doesn't have a DPS job, or will barely do better DPS in it than his/her tank job due to lack of practice/experience
C) Stuff Happens. Would you rather restart guaranteed if MT dies, or have that backup available at the cost of a little DPS?

Pick one/all.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

A) There's no need to if you're clearing anyways.
B) The OT doesn't have a DPS job, or will barely do better DPS in it than his/her tank job due to lack of practice/experience
C) Stuff Happens. Would you rather restart guaranteed if MT dies, or have that backup available at the cost of a little DPS?

Pick one/all.

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Thats fine and all but the topic was the viability of taking war as a dps. My point was it will always be suboptimal compared to just bringing another dps from a damage perspective. The utility of wipe prevention doesn't really matter in that perspective. He wasn't asking about Solo tanking vs OT. He was asking about being War or mrd dps.

It is not suboptimal to bring a DPS specd warrior. As long as you understand that it is a hybrid role and that you are not bringing him for his dps alone.

You are bring him to OT adds, to absorb damage mechanics, and to help burst damage when needed. Can you just bring another DPS? yes, but can a dps tank the adds? no.

This is the point of maximizing your OT dps.

It is a hybrid strategy right between the normal 2 tank strategy, and the 1 tank extra dps strategy. All are viable, you just need to understand your goals.

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Originally Posted by TrivariumOri

That was probably burst damage, I know it is possible to reach those numbers for short periods every time fight or flight is up but we are taking about sustained damage not what a paladin can do in 6-10 seconds, raids last longer than 10 seconds.

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No that's what my DPS is on a dummy according to someone parsing me. With proper rotation and gear its not hard. I mean, when you use all DPS accessories its not that hard. Also I'm WAR not PLD.