Summoner and some tight DPS check

As a summoner I find some trouble when it comes to a very tight DPS check with many target to deal with like the final boss of Tam-tara HM or Garuda plums.

What I do will be
- in loose group like tam-tara HM , focus my pet (garuda for sure) to the same target, bio + ruin II untill one down and switch target. still there are damn multiple adds to kill. I cannot keep doing 3DoT + feaster due to it's cool down and casting time and I can do that for only 3 of them but I have to deal with 10+ of them :(
- in tight group like garuda's plum, miasma 2 to the group then spam blizzard II, and use all garuda's AOE still it's 4 group to deal with.

I think we are specialize in dealing massive damage in long term not bust them out.

Any suggestion for improvement? Please tell

I feel you!
In some circumstances we are having a hard time bursting adds and it depends highly on fight mechanics.

Generally when I learn the fight, understand how my group handles particular phases, I start anticipating phases in order to provide as much dps as possible.
By anticipating I mean timing my Aetherstacks and CDs, as well as dots on main target or possible target for bane.

From what you say, you do quite fine. What I would add to rotation is swift shadowflare if mobs are not expected to move away. People underestimate this skill, while it hits way harder than miasma II - dont remember exact number as I am at work, but i.e. miasma II will hit on average 30dmg per tick, while shadowflare will do 80-90dmg per tick.

If adds spawn close to my main target, which for majority of the time will be boss, then I always try to time my dots to be fresh on boss, keep aether stacks up, as well as contagion. This is quite easy scenario as you just have to bane them, but seen many summoners not thinking ahead with their CDs and Aether on such cases.
Also, if adds are expected to stay in one place and not spread all around the place, then you should keep swift off CD and cast on spawn shadowflare in their spot.

In case you cannot bane and have to dot everything from the beginning, then I always try to ask myself a question on how long those adds will stay up. if the HP is low and burn is high, then just do what you said(miasma II, blizz, ruda's aoe) with addition of swift+shadowflare (in case they are not expected to run away).
In case of DPS check which lasts longer and adds are spread, dot as many as possible and try to use contagion on the add which is not the priority target for rest of your group, best 2nd or 3rd so you get the most of your dots.


Also, it is a huge help if your teammembers have knowledge of other classes than their own and know how to improve overall performance of the group.
Seen plenty summoners who i.e. burn their festers asap on Twintania and are on 30 sec CD for any burst, while in few seconds comes conflag so they cannot bane+fester and the conflag gets long.
I think the key for proper burst with Summoner is anticipation of upcomming mechanic and taking it into account before you burn your all Aether stacks and/or CDs on boss, who usually does not even have a need for bursting other than standard dmg output from the party. In fact, sometimes it is even recommended to slow down due to fight mechanics.

Regards,
M

Like Machetazzo said, the key is anticipation. Stocking up on Aetherflow stacks to Bane --> Fester, also don't forget about Energy Drain, in a pinch you can output some nice burst, especially if you have 6 stacks waiting in anticipation. Sometimes if things get desperate (kill it or wipe) I will use Enkindle.

Also don't forget about Rouse + Spur. You can save those for burst as well (but never hold on to things past their cd, i.e. holding onto Rouse for over a minute).

honestly, garuda extreme plumes is the only fight that really comes to mind where for a SMN its best to just leave the majority of our dps to the group, and i'de prefer more fights like this, it seems to be our only weak point is low hp adds like this.
sometimes you just have to rely on your group a little more, i know its probably not what you wanted to hear, but the game is designed around not having many doubles of classes in fights.

that one exception aside, what everyone else has said is pretty much right on the mark.

Thanks guys gonna try them in tam-tara HM today :)

Is it weird that I like the fact that we're not the super bursty DPS members of the fight? One thing I love about being a SMN is the ability to still be doing great DoT on a mob, while focusing on offering a bit of help on the adds. Its the one class that I feel that I can be totally effective all around. Drop a battle rezz, focus on multiple targets and still damage the boss in a matter of 5-10 seconds.

For Tam-Tara, I will generally start by using Rouse + Spur and having my pet always attack the add closest to the center. I'll usually start with Miasma to inflict the movement speed debuff, followed up by a Bio. If only 2 have spawned on my side at this point, I'll generally just burn down the first one with Ruin II before switching to the next. If more than 2 have spawned, I'll hit them with a Miasma, Bio, Fester/Energy Drain combo in the order that they come out (if they're close enough, I'll make use of Bane) before going back to the one closest to the center and spamming Ruin II.

I can usually deal with 3 completely on my own but it gets harder from there and depends heavily on how many Aetherflow stacks I have at my disposal. Theoretically, the healer will be helping you with dps during this phase (and the tank helping melee dps) so even if they aren't in Cleric Stance, the two of you should be able to burn through 5 of the adds.

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Originally Posted by Lycia

Is it weird that I like the fact that we're not the super bursty DPS members of the fight? One thing I love about being a SMN is the ability to still be doing great DoT on a mob, while focusing on offering a bit of help on the adds. Its the one class that I feel that I can be totally effective all around. Drop a battle rezz, focus on multiple targets and still damage the boss in a matter of 5-10 seconds.

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You know, considering how mediocre most classes are in terms of AoE output, there's probably a reason every static runs with a BLM nowadays.
Considering most statics bring a BLM for AoE, what's great about Summoner compared to other DPS?

What's great about an SMN? Are you even serious? Perhaps the fact that it has Raise? That is has the best sustained DPS overall (if played well) and is the least depending on RNG. And most statics bring a BLM for AoE? Lol, to raid in dungeons or something? Don't make me laugh

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

You know, considering how mediocre most classes are in terms of AoE output, there's probably a reason every static runs with a BLM nowadays.
Considering most statics bring a BLM for AoE, what's great about Summoner compared to other DPS?

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To each their own. I think I bring a swiss army knife to a fight. Like I said, its not always about burst, and while specific fights require massive movements at times which reduces others ability to do damage on a mob, our DoT's still tick while up. I by no means have ever been a big Theory Crafter, and don't mathematically know who does better DPS and what not, I do know in long fights I've witnessed my skills help win. At the end of the day, that's my goal. Don't care if i'm at the top of the charts, or bottom. If the boss dies then that's great.

I think us having the ability to battle raise, while Contagion is keeping my DoT's up, and spreading out my tick around multiple targets if needed is what makes my abilities grand in a raid. The nice part about this game is that we all bring a niche to the table, but all are not required. Makes it more fun IMHO. That's why I don't cry about our lack of burst.

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

You know, considering how mediocre most classes are in terms of AoE output, there's probably a reason every static runs with a BLM nowadays.
Considering most statics bring a BLM for AoE, what's great about Summoner compared to other DPS?

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Bwaahaha

At 4 targets and under SMN AoE is actually the best in the game with Bane delivering a whopping 890 potency unboosted per target, plus you can Swiftcast a Shadowflare on top of it. If you were really hurting you could even use an Enkindle. With the notable exception of T4 most endgame content doesn't spawn 4+ adds at once.

At over 4 targets SMN pulls ahead when adds can't be grouped together e.g. Ifrit Ex, Ramuh Ex. because they can multi-dot where other classes will have to burst down targets one at a time.

And you have a SMN or SCH to 50...wut? >_>

SMN AoE is strong but takes time to tick out. Whereas BLM the damage is instant. IIRC B2/Mia/Bio/Mia2 w/ Shadow flare is in the neighborhood of 1200 potency, which is equal to 4 or 5 flares.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

SMN AoE is strong but takes time to tick out. Whereas BLM the damage is instant. IIRC B2/Mia/Bio/Mia2 w/ Shadow flare is in the neighborhood of 1200 potency, which is equal to 4 or 5 flares.

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Yeah, although you can't chain 4-5 Flares at full power. Most you can do is two (I'm not counting using an Ether pot, strictly what the class can do under its own power).
Also, unlike Flares, the nature of DoTs means that SMNs can still pump out Ruins and Festers in addition to whatever their pet is doing. And the pet can be boosted too.

Without hard numbers it's hard to tell, but I would say SMN's edge out BLM with 4 targets (discounting the usage of outside items). Hmm, would like to see a test though.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Yeah, although you can't chain 4-5 Flares at full power. Most you can do is two (I'm not counting using an Ether pot, strictly what the class can do under its own power).
Also, unlike Flares, the nature of DoTs means that SMNs can still pump out Ruins and Festers in addition to whatever their pet is doing. And the pet can be boosted too.

Without hard numbers it's hard to tell, but I would say SMN's edge out BLM with 4 targets (discounting the usage of outside items). Hmm, would like to see a test though.

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Definitely, I did the math a while back to figure that out. I don't have a lv50 BLM though so it was hard to compare exactly. I was interested to know how many flares could be squeezed into a similar time frame.

Really though, on 4+ targets you can still dot/bane the others fairly quickly.. Plus filler blizzard 2 or lolTridisaster

SMN Great for primals and things that need to take damage OVER TIME
Spike damage will come from Drags and BLMs
Constant Damage Bards and MNKs I think do those best

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

SMN AoE is strong but takes time to tick out. Whereas BLM the damage is instant. IIRC B2/Mia/Bio/Mia2 w/ Shadow flare is in the neighborhood of 1200 potency, which is equal to 4 or 5 flares.

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Doesn't Flare get the Astral buff as well? Which I believe almost doubles it's Potency at 3 Stacks. So double flare should be close to a SMN DoT rotation. But Summoner can still use Contagion. Rouse +Spur Enkindle Aerial Slash Blizz II spam.

But Double Flare comes out a whole lot faster than the DoTs and also F2 does good damage.
I think the key to SMN burst is by using the pet. Especially now that Aerial Slash is Instant. (Rouse+AS)
You can even have your Pet attack one mob while you attack another. Dots+Fester is decent burst and the Pet + Rouse is 140 Potency. So about 420 potency by the time SMN has 400 potency on a mob.