[Fluff] Make new duty finder option

We have a 'join a party in progress' checkbox. Can we also have a 'only join parties with a new player' option?

That 100 myths pile on quick. Still less than (the ridiculously out of balance) hunts but it's something doable doing primetime. Seriously, hunts in god-forsaken hours are awesome; but in primetime, you'll be lucky if you manage to see the thing 1y away (you always get to see the corpse, however). For casual players, hunts are seriously impossible, at least give back something good for people to do during primetime.

Actually this is a good idea, and heck I'd do it even if there was no bonus. Love helping newbies, those runs are more fun than generic speed runs.

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Actually this is a good idea, and heck I'd do it even if there was no bonus. Love helping newbies, those runs are more fun than generic speed runs.

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I agree. I would love to help newer people.

I third this motion, especially if they have another "free-weekend" :)

Funny, I have seen some people leaving a Dungeon when they see somebody is totally new or talking rudely to that person although he/she said "i am new". But if there are extra Myth to gain, there should be an option to search for the newbies. For what? To yell at them because the 100 Myth aren't earned quickly enough lol? Everybody like to take some extra Myth but I am not sure if this is doing new members really a favour. And even more DD's will wait longer for a party.

I don't see why DD's would wait longer for a party since they can also choose to seek out new players to play with automatically.

I think this is a great idea and I'd definitely help if I could (though take this with the grain of salt that I don't run dungeons often so that wouldn't even be every day, but when I DO run dungeons I'd tick that box every time).

if you dont want newby in your group, use the PF function is there for that reason. There is absolutely no need for a sub category in DF, it would only bring more problems and, obviously a longer waiting list. Besides, very very few people out of all the mass that plays this game would be really willing to go into DF-newby (as proposed) to really help newby they would go for the myths and still be rude, impolite towards the newby, and that would apply as well to the not anymore newby but still nto yet pro that will use the *normal* DF function...so in the end what will this proposition bring ? absolutely nothing new to the newbies..

On a side note, *newby* has a different meaning depending on who uses it.

I agree though that for casual players (which has nothing to do with newby) is very difficult to evolve at higher levels but also you cant make everybody happy at all times right ? For hunts, I often am on my own, thus some of the hunts I cant do at all or when I arrive is already finished, nothing I can do is part of the game, frustrating yes, but alas nothing will change unless they make a *casual* category server with totally different stuff meant for casual players to allow them to still play very good game with less frustrations that there is right now around, e.g. hunts, atmas and the like.

Just me though

Mei

For a second there, I thought this was gonna be something other than a complaint about hunts...

This will be exploited by people who want to speed through dungeons.

People still pull large groups in dungeons despite the new dungeons being specifically designed not to be speed run. I really don't understand why they still do it, especially based on certain party compositions. I understand if you're running with AOE heavy classes wanting to pull more, but as a Monk spamming SV and Tam-Tara HMs for my Monk body piece countless number of times, I much rather enjoyed the runs where we pulled the normal pack of enemies one by one and mowed them down then being expected to AOE everything at a slow rate. Even at the max number of things you can pull before being walled off, there's usually something that really holds you back.

I'm glad for these changes, but I still worry about players that will try to push the new players so they can get their 100 myth bonus.

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Originally Posted by LeonBlade

This will be exploited by people who want to speed through dungeons.

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Exactly what I thought when I read the OP. You would have everyone in the 'help' queue.

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Originally Posted by LeonBlade

People still pull large groups in dungeons despite the new dungeons being specifically designed not to be speed run. I really don't understand why they still do it, especially based on certain party compositions.

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Basically comes down to a lack of intelligence and why you do things. I've noticed this hero tank mind-set in the new dungeons. I tend to run Hullbreaker for myth since it's simple and hard to stuff up. Last time I ran we had this ilevel90 paladin who said he wanted AoE. This ofc meant he pulled every pack in the place. Yet he wasn't smart enough to kite them to the traps which would have significantly sped up the run. Anyway, so he grabs them and takes a pounding. Why do pallys use their heal boost when they take no damage. /sigh. I have to pay attention to heal him. How dare he. :P The group do their AoE but it's so weak considering that it's a small pack so it takes longer and more enemies survive longer and he takes more damage. And ofc he lost hate on some mobs because I had to spam heal him. Sometimes you just don't want to be a healer.

Compared to some MMOs ARR is light on theory crafting because they went with a simple design but some people just think because he does it I should with out knowing why. I've come across some terrible pally tanks that use riot blade, don't use flash. Use the combo ability with out the combo. the tooltips are fairly clear, some people are just can't think. I don't understand why tanks are always the rarest since being a healer you have to compensate for tank and damage screw ups. A case in point. Second boss in SV hm and I was the only one stunning - as healer. We wiped because I was the only one and was on cd. Second time around after instructing party I was still the only one but luckily missing one stun is not normally fatal. Last boss the tank was tanking the boss. It never occurred to him after dying twice that might not be a good idea. Some people never learn. That's my healer moan for today. Have a nice day everyone. :P

Wouldn't the simplest thing to be not give people who selected to help new players the bonus?

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Originally Posted by Worm

Wouldn't the simplest thing to be not give people who selected to help new players the bonus?

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That's the way it works currently.

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Originally Posted by LeonBlade

This will be exploited by people who want to speed through dungeons.

People still pull large groups in dungeons despite the new dungeons being specifically designed not to be speed run. I really don't understand why they still do it, especially based on certain party compositions. I understand if you're running with AOE heavy classes wanting to pull more, but as a Monk spamming SV and Tam-Tara HMs for my Monk body piece countless number of times, I much rather enjoyed the runs where we pulled the normal pack of enemies one by one and mowed them down then being expected to AOE everything at a slow rate. Even at the max number of things you can pull before being walled off, there's usually something that really holds you back.

I'm glad for these changes, but I still worry about players that will try to push the new players so they can get their 100 myth bonus.

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I agree with this. It would take no time before we start seeing the abuse to the new people (more so than it is). There are those players who just want tomes as quickly as possible, and this would be their new go-to. Back in the day, when CM was the norm for tomes, people were constantly getting yelled at to skip cutscenes and being locked out of fights if they were too slow. And now with the ability to kick players? It would be a mess.

I was actually gonna say, do this and make it so that the time bonus is nonexistent this way; instead just offer Gil or something. I personally would use that as a preferred way of capping and I could use the Gil.

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Originally Posted by Poringing

We have a 'join a party in progress' checkbox. Can we also have a 'only join parties with a new player' option?

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They already mentioned this in a dev response, adding more/new options to the duty-finder causes more problems than it solves. The more 'layers' you add the longer the match making processing takes to sort through.

It may seem like this would benefit yourself and new players, but adding extra frill to the duty-finder (along with the other options people have suggested would only make queues longer.

It could have been fun to be able to queue for "new players only" BEFORE they added the tome bonus. I like helping new people, and I think it's important that we match them up with people who aren't going to berate them and make snotty comments on their early dungeon runs. Not everyone has a thick skin, and I'm sure there have been people scared away due to a few asshats that they were unlucky enough to run into.

Anyone know if you still get the "first-timer" bonus if the first-timer doesn't finish the dungeon with you?

Newbie: Hi, everyone, first time in this dungeon!
Jerk speedrunners: Cool, thanks for the tome bonus!
*Speedrunners kick the newbie, replace with random player, probably a veteran*
Jerk speedrunners: All right, let's rock this!

I'd very much like to hope that if the newbie drops, the tome bonus drops with them, but SE has overlooked some pretty obvious exploits in the past...

Ye know what DF option would be fun. "Bare minimal" where you go into a dungeon and your il is only as high as the recommended required.

When doing dungeons in this manner they could offer the following:
-Increased Spiritbond gains
-Additional chest drops
-Increased odds of gear dropping from chest

In a way this option could be seen as a harder difficulty allowing players to go through the dungeon with more of a handicap while also offering them something for their trouble.

I do really like this idea as I enjoy helping new players. It has it's pros and cons yes, but it's something that I'm sure could be worked out if SE tried hard enough. At first glance a simple solution would be to make it so only the new players get the tome bonus. this would eliminate the ability for speed runners to exploit the system.

This still leaves the issue with the queue taking longer for everyone since the pool would be split up and not just one big one. One way around this I can think of, would be for the "new player" option in DF, would just be a preference for the queue and not a 100% requirement. Meaning that if I queue up and check the box to do a dungeon with new players, it would look first for new players, but then pull from non-new players if there aren't enough people flagged for new players. I think this would allow for SE to create other preferences for duty finder to make it so you can prefer certain things over others, but not take a hit on the pool of players you pull from.

This is by no means the end all solution, but I think it would be a good start.