White Mage vs Scholar

I know someone that is a WHM and a SCH and I’m a WHM becoming a SCH and that person looks down on SCH saying that they shouldn’t even be green because their Protect sucks, their Stoneskin sucks and they don’t have healing traits cuz their traits and powers are too much alike to the SMN, the Arcanist class is a BLM and a WHM put together in a blender and thats the result. I like being a SCH cuz i have the pets to help me out...SCH isn’t so bad but they really don’t have the healing traits, plus the points that we get from leveling up, if it is not spent correctly, a SMN might be too strong than a SCH so I personally put the point on Vitality. Idk can you guys help me out? which class does a better job of healing if you were to put the best SCH and WHM of Eorzea together to heal a group of ppl?

They both have completely different jobs, they are pretty balanced ATM, so it depends on what way of play do you like more...
I play both and I can tell you that both are usefully and funny to use but they have differences on the playstile
Sch is more like a single target / damage preventing kind of healer, adloquium have less potency than a cure 2 but it also applies a shield for the same amount of heal performed and it is duplicated if the adlo crits, plus De fairy that help you with the heals and have buffs you can heal perfectly fine through all the game.
Meanwhile whm is so good for Spike damage and also have a lot of tools for group healing, he can heal all the party with AoE healing and HoTs.
The mana management is a little more difficult as whm but once that you get used to it you will be fine.
So whm and SCH complement each other perfectly! The best composition is having one of each in and 8 man party

neither they are both balanced. There is a reason most 8 man statics have both a WHM and a SCH. They both bring different things to the table.

Also tell your friend that SCH has a better shield than stoneskin since last I checked the most you could get out of stoneskin is something like 2k and that is with a tank with 12k hp. Adlo can crit for that which doubles the shield.

As for traits Maim and Mend (Arcanist) (and 2) increase your healing. Eye for an Eye traited reduces the recast to 2mins. Supervirus reduces the damage the enemy does which means you have to heal for less. Really the only traits that whm get are the ones that give free/reduced healing outside of traited stoneskin (which I covered above).

And if you want to do both SMN and SCH then put your bonus points into INT. You will lose ~50hp on physic and ~40hp on adlo which isn't that big of a deal at 50. If you end up in a static as SCH then respec but for everything else you would be fine with 30INT.

WHM is good for burst healing meaning they can heal like 2k off the bat(well a good geares WHM that is). SCH is more of buff/damage reduction healer. We do crit healing. Honestly I like SCH more because they can have eos on embrace (cure/heal) spam so they can dodge those plumes in titan ex w/o have to actually hacing to stop healing cuz you got eos doing it. Or have eos pop Breaking dawn(i forget the name) and something-illumination(forgot that bame to) for when that tumult comes dwn in titan ex. And selene for dps buffs in ST. Or Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by NargaHuntress

WHM is good for burst healing meaning they can heal like 2k off the bat(well a good geares WHM that is). SCH is more of buff/damage reduction healer. We do crit healing. Honestly I like SCH more because they can have eos on embrace (cure/heal) spam so they can dodge those plumes in titan ex w/o have to actually hacing to stop healing cuz you got eos doing it. Or have eos pop Breaking dawn(i forget the name) and something-illumination(forgot that bame to) for when that tumult comes dwn in titan ex. And selene for dps buffs in ST. Or Frontlines.

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whispering dawn and fey illumination are the names you forgot.

Quite honestly, whoever said that really doesn't know that much about the healers. It's true WHM gets better stoneskin and protect, but the reality is in any 8man instance, both whm and sch are going to be preferred. There are some instances you can get away with 2 whm, and admittedly 2 whm does work slightly better than 2 sch due to how sch shielding works, but overall they complement each other so well that it's hard to say one is better than the other outright, it really depends on the content. WHM excels in AoE healing, sch excels in single target healing and damage mitigation. Usually sch heals the tanks, while whm heals the party.

As for attribute points, I have sch and whm, and sch points are all in Int because I wanted a summoner mainly, even with 30+ difference in mind I can heal everything up to t5 just fine. Haven't tried second coil for either healer since they aren't my mains. Remember that sch most powerful heal, Lustrate, is percentage based heal, so it doesn't matter what your mind is or even if you're in cleric stance it will heal 25% hp.

A White Mage is the group "band-aid". We are there to fix the group up with medicas, our own little damage prevention of Stoneskin and regen etc. We SHOULD be proactive where possible with pre-healing to cover damage just as it happens, knowing what's going to happen and preparing etc.
So a White Mage thinks "We've all just been hurt, let's patch it up as fast as possible".

Ultimately, the entire WHM vs SCH discussion is pointless, they're both fantastic rolls. My best friend is the scholar of my parties, I'm the White mage. In 8 man content if i'm pugging , or running with a PF group, i /pray! that my other healer is a Scholar.Leon summed it up. I'll add to it.

White Mage Class Keyword = REACTIVE
Scholar Class Keyword = PROACTIVE

As a Scholar, single target heals are awesome. However, it's in using/managing your pet properly that this is possible. A Scholar should know the fight, know when damage is coming, and prepare for it.
So a Scholar thinks "We're all about to be hurt, let's stop as much of that as possible"

Also, as far as the "scholars' buffs suck" argument go, ignore it. Yes, a White mage casting Stoneskin and Protect adds extra % buff, and extra damage type protection, but if you don't have a white mage in your group, are you going to want your Scholar NOT to use them? I think not.
Just always remember, let the White Mage put up Protect and Stoneskin if you have one with you. If you don't, put them up yourself. And if the white mage is too busy to put up stoneskin and you know damage is coming on your MT or OT or whatever.. don't be afraid to put it up!

Hello. I play both SCH and WHM, and I believe both are viable endgame healers. A lot has been said about the abilities and kit of the two jobs, so rather than rehash everything, I will only confirm that what's said above me is true.

The main cause for some healers to marginalize the other class is in playstyle and their expectations of the healer role. WHM in general use the amount healed (and their ability to recover from huge amounts of damage) as a metric of their effectiveness. They handle spike damage simply by healing through it (often at cost of MP and enmity). The SCH in comparison works to prevent that spike damage with hp buffers and mitigation. Thus, when you see a good SCH heal, the party will not lose massive chunks of HP. Instead, the tank will lose smaller chunks that a SCH physick/WHM cure and pet can handle. This difference can be difficult for WHM to adjust to, especially if they are treating Adlo as a cure2 with benefits (it really isn't).

With that in mind, I think the synergy between the two jobs is fairly obvious in 8-man content. Similarly, I hope you understand the strength and subtly different metrics used for both classes.

Be able to play both or your gimping yourself and your group.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Be able to play both or your gimping yourself and your group.

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I wouldn't say your gimping yourself or your group if you only have 1 leveled. The SCH in my static doesn't have WHM leveled (he only has it to 16) but he doesn't need it to be a good SCH. I always precast stoneskin on everyone before the fight and even if he had stoneskin I would do that anyways since mine is 8% higher. And for during combat Adlo is going to be the better choice coming from him than a Stoneskin would anyways. He needs to work on that for pugs but in the static there is always going to be a WHM to Stoneskin.

Currently working on T9 so I wouldn't say he is gimped. Being able to play both does make you more versatile through but only having one doesn't gimp the one that you have.

These 2 works differently, even if 'green'

I prefer SCH over WHM - But it goes with my playstyle.

Other FC mate loves WHM - and he's starting to like the fairies soo ^^

If you are a healer - no matter which jobs you choose - you can do your role.

I love to play with minions, so that's me.

I put my points into INT for my SMN.

SCH you should lose about 50hp from your heals by doing that. So far haven't found a problem.

Stop listening to those that will tell this and that - test things by yourself, and then you can talk with them.

It's the same with the only 2 Tanks in here so far. I prefer PLD, but love WAR for it's skills (that cyclone) versus PLD that mashes 3 buttons and check his CoolDowns..

It comes down to: play what you like. You will find group that will love to receive your heals on their heads ^^

Have fun!

EDIT: sorry for late post after everyone. By the time I was able to type, others filled it ^^

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Originally Posted by Yonko

I wouldn't say your gimping yourself or your group if you only have 1 leveled.

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Agreed. You can only have one class equipped at a time, not two, so where's the benefit. Yes, understanding how to play as a scholar if you are WHM, or WHM if you are a scholar, can help you understand what your counterpart should be doing at certain times, but that' more on the teaching side of things (i.e telling your scholar "now would be good time to galvanise, big damage about to come in") but if you're running anything higher than extremes, if you need to hold your counterparts' hand, you've already got issues.

This sounds like a lack of knowledge on the healing classes. They are different but both really good. You just need to learn what each is about.

To original OP's question: both are best. Period. Raw healing + amazing AOE = WHM /// Mitigation + amazing single target heals = SCH. I have both leveled and love them equally.

I love playing either, but the best is in 8 mans when the other healer is the opposite of what you are. If I'm a scholar I love having the other healer be a white mage. If I'm a white mage, I love having the other healer be a scholar. They just compliment each other very well.

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Originally Posted by hdepaula

which class does a better job of healing if you were to put the best SCH and WHM of Eorzea together to heal a group of ppl?

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short anwser: SCH
I think eveyrone would prevent to say this answer directly to prevent war. ^^;

A longer version: best SCH does a better job than best WHM if healing the best group of ppl.

I love Scholars, but I prefer playing my White Mage. (Hexagons <3)
And Scholars don't suck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUbMMglvPo

The healing roles in this game are actually beautifully balanced, to the point where if I pop into 8-man content in a pug and there's a second white mage, I groan.
Two white mages or two scholars are a terrible matchup. One whm, one scholar is fantabulous.

I have tried scholar and cannot get on with it, but my static scholar feels the same about whm =P We are a dynamic healing duo~

Aye, both classes are terrifically balanced. I love scholars massive single target healing, and yet I'm also I love with white mage's HoT spells. Play them both, maybe you find a favorite, or maybe you'll like them both.

Also don't discount a scholar's stoneskin. Just because it's not traited doesn't mean it's useless. Sometimes the white mage will be busy patching up raid damage or isn't paying attention, and it's up to you to mitigate the tank. If you already have adlo up, stoneskin is better than nothing.

Another nice thing about stoneskin is it only incurs 70 enmity. I'm more likely to drop a stoneskin when adds spawn because the threat generated is negligible. Even if the mobs come for me, one flash or overpower and they're all on the tank. It's especially nice since most scholars are built for crit, and a crit physick in an add scenario can easily generate ten times as much hate as stoneskin, making it harder to pull off you.

Just some food for thought, stoneskin isn't a scholar's strongest ability, but it's certainly not a wasted slot.

Ihave both and a prefer scholar cause we mitigate damage and we save people from dieing yes a whm is better for aoe heals but we have btter mp regen almost unlimited and we heal a lot too my physick is 1032 plus an embrace of 700-800 its a nice heal and adlo its like healing 1690 and if it crits pfff huge mitigation

Tell that guy to solo heal T8 as a whm if sch is so bad.

Omg this again
WHM is AOE healer,
SCH is the turret.

Both can do either job if necessary.

As a SCH, I really like having a WHM by my side. It's somehow reasurring to see galvanize and medica II on the whole party, instead of just galvanize.
We have a better form of preventing the damage with these two spells.
The two classes are really well designed to be played together.

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Originally Posted by Rynia

The healing roles in this game are actually beautifully balanced, to the point where if I pop into 8-man content in a pug and there's a second white mage, I groan.
Two white mages or two scholars are a terrible matchup. One whm, one scholar is fantabulous.

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I'm the same way. As SCH, I would so much rather be paired up with a WHM than another SCH.

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I have tried scholar and cannot get on with it, but my static scholar feels the same about whm =P We are a dynamic healing duo~

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Sounds like me and a friend of mine. She loves WHM, I love SCH. Together we're friggin unstoppable. :3

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Originally Posted by AldoVonAlexandros

Ihave both and a prefer scholar cause we mitigate damage and we save people from dieing yes a whm is better for aoe heals but we have btter mp regen almost unlimited and we heal a lot too my physick is 1032 plus an embrace of 700-800 its a nice heal and adlo its like healing 1690 and if it crits pfff huge mitigation

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Exactly. I personally prefer SCH because I can always be busy. If there's a lull in the damage taken (like a big Adloq crit), I can Cleric Stance, throw out a few DoTs, and switch back. On the off chance someone DOES take massive damage while I'm doing that, Lustrate is so delicious. I have a harder time knowing when I have time to DPS on WHM. It feels clunky and like a poor fit for my play style, so I don't play it as much. SCH seems to have more utility overall with the damage prevention and debuffs, where WHM is a straight up heal battery.

SCH is also amazing in low level dungeons. DPS and let the fairy heal it. xD

Even the utility on the summons is amazing. Roused Fey Illumination + Whispering Dawn is some crazy good HoT (albeit on a fairly long cooldown). Throw a Succor on top of it (and a Medica II if your partner is a WHM) and party-wide massive damage becomes a snap to recover from. I don't know how anyone can possibly say that Scholar isn't a "real healer"; that to me just seems like they're ignorant of how the class itself works.

I play both but I vastly prefer to play as SCH.
I feel like WHM gets boring really quickly as there isn't a lot to it.

It's just my opinion, but there isn't much more to WHM than cure, regen and medica...
But with SCH, I have all my mitigations, shields, fairy micro managing, and can even throw out as much dps as I like without thinking about MP.

So it really depends on play style. If you like big powerful heals, go with WHM.
If you like to be constantly busy and are good at pre-emptive thinking, go with SCH.

They are both great healers. Any content you only need one healer.. Either work equally well. For 8 man stuff you want one of each if possible. It really is that simple.

Which one you will like/feel more comfortable with... That is personal preference. I am a WHM turned SCH and I'm not looking back. Not because WHM isn't as good, just because I prefer SCH.

I would say that I personally prefer WHM, although I've seen nearly twice as many SCHs in Duty Finder as WHMs, so it seems most people disagree.

WHM

Pros
-Higher overall healing power
-Several healing cooldowns
-Cleric Stance makes it one of the best classes for soloing, especially once you can get your chocbo to fight for you
-Can start healing as early as level 15

Cons
-Problems with conserving MP over long fights
-Can't help out with DPS as much in Light Party

SCH

Pros
-Can abuse a lot of SMN's DPS potential while fairy heals
-Shielding spells
-No MP efficiency issues

Cons
-Fairy pet clashes utterly with class's lore background
-Bad AI on fairy
-Lack of AoE healing
-Best abilities are not received until well into the Job storyline
-Dependent on pet for healing; if anything happens to it, well I hope you didn't blow your Swiftcast cooldown

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Tell that guy to solo heal T8 as a whm if sch is so bad.

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Did it!.
Do I win?

after having a whm healer main since day 1, I finally got my summoner/scholar to 50 (distributed points evenly 15/15 to int/mind, as I play both jobs) tried out scholar healing and its actually pretty fun. atm ive just got the pets doing their own thing while I get used to it all, but it plays very differently to whm healing

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Originally Posted by AspectOfWinter

WHM
Cons
-Problems with conserving MP over long fights
-Can't help out with DPS as much in Light Party

SCH
Cons
-Lack of AoE healing
-Dependent on pet for healing; if anything happens to it, well I hope you didn't blow your Swiftcast cooldown

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WHM
-Shroud of the Saints
-Cleric Stance + Aero I & II + Stone II + Holy (Fluid Aura + Blizz II if they get resist to Stun)
SCH
-Succor, Whispering Dawn (add Fey Illumination for added AoE heal bonus, or Rouse), Fey Covenant to reduce damage
-Adloquim (heal and shield), Lustrate (straight 25% heal), Sacred Soil (AoE damage reduction), Virus (damage reduction)

Some of the cons you mentioned are not even an issue for the experienced healers of that class.

I think it boils down to WHM having lackluster cooldowns and mechanics compared to SCH..

WHMs are reactive healers, if nobody gets hit you really cant do anything outside probably a hardcast stone skin.. (which makes most of their free cure mechanics inefficient and anti-fun.. ie: having a free cure but none to heal)
SCH on the other hand have their basic turret heals while having aetherflow as strong heals depending on situation (makes it fun because you have to manage your '3 bullets' every minute)

im also not really liking the fact that WHM cds being a bit buggy.. benediction having some internal cast delay, im fine with divine illu and the buffed presence of mind but do remember that even as off gcd skills you still have to wait half a GCD before you can cast again (internal delay with gcd) as opposed to eos/selene which have their own GCD.

i also still think than pet party buffs provide a lot more utility than whatever WHM does.. POM (self spell speed increase) vs pet buff of (whole party spell/skill speed increase)

i have a whm at 50 and i really hope im wrong.. at present im skewed to leaning that sch offers a tad more utility but i concede that both healers are still viable for any content

oh one more thing is mana issues (which i really hope im wrong) it seems to me that WHM are a lot more common to guzzle their mana rather than sch due to aetherflow mechanics.. i rarely see SCHs go OOM compared to how common it is to see WHM going really low

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Originally Posted by Abigs

WHMs are reactive healers, if nobody gets hit you really cant do anything outside probably a hardcast stone skin.. (which makes most of their free cure mechanics inefficient and anti-fun.. ie: having a free cure but none to heal)

i also still think than pet party buffs provide a lot more utility than whatever WHM does.. POM (self spell speed increase) vs pet buff of (whole party spell/skill speed increase)

oh one more thing is mana issues (which i really hope im wrong) it seems to me that WHM are a lot more common to guzzle their mana rather than sch due to aetherflow mechanics.. i rarely see SCHs go OOM compared to how common it is to see WHM going really low

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1: If there is no one to heal on WHM, you should be DPSing.
2: Pet buffs are SCH. Protect + Stoneskin are WHM. They each have their own buffs that they specialize in.
3: Shroud of the Saints. I never have OOM issues. Especially if there's a Bard in the party who actually does Mage Ballad.

Scholars will almost always be strictly better than a White Mage when it comes to your group playing 99% efficiently.

White Mages truly shine when it comes to recovering from near-wipe scenarios such as Titan Extreme Super Bomb (slow DPS) explosion into Geocrush. As for "Mana Issues," you don't really have any mana issues as a White Mage unless:

1. Overhealing.
2. Divine Seal Management
3. Unnecessary Damage / Deaths
4. Undergeared tanks that cannot hold threat vs. your heals which in turn means you cannot use Shroud on CD.
5. *Ress pls*

I seem to heal very differently from most of you. I was about to post an essay talking about how both healers perform differently, but I'll just summarize.

WHM
-Party healer extraordinaire
-Healer nuker
-Requires MP conservation
-Can easily build hate

SCH
-Single target pocket protector, will never let target die if that's all that's going on.
-Lag is not as much of a problem with AI healer fairy.
-Immensely vast MP supply means very little conservation unless people are doing it wrong.
-If the party is doing it wrong, the SCH is not the one to bring for the job, as everyone will probably die due to small party heals.

In 4 player duties, SCH is usually the one you want around. SCH doesn't have their best spell until 30, condition removal until 35, and has no sleep spell, but will otherwise meet more demands more often.
In 8 player duties, WHM is much more appealing, as 8 player duties usually have more spread out damage and more AoE's, which means more people taking damage. 2 WHM's will even be good in many occasions, though often 2 SCH's will feel lacking.

@Parawill
I am extremely curious on why you consider Scholar better in an ideal situation, could you elaborate? (Since this is the internet....no sarcasm intended, just genuinely interested in what everybody thinks :) )

@Freyt
-Immensely vast MP supply means very little conservation unless people are doing it wrong.
-If the party is doing it wrong, the SCH is not the one to bring for the job, as everyone will probably die due to small party heals.

Don't you think these two scholar points of yours contradict each other?
If people are mucking up, should you not choose scholar due to their "Immensely vast MP supply means very little conservation unless people are doing it wrong" ?

I think the idea is that if everyone is taking damage at the same time, the SCH will struggle to keep up, since succor is not a great party heal, whereas the WHM can just medica through it with no issues.

I feel like it's a little more difficult to pick up the slack or solo heal as a scholar in 8 mans if the other healer is bad or dead. Or at least, a scholar needs to be better geared than a whm trying to do the same. For the reason posted above; Medica and Medica II make it easy for whm to aoe heal. Also, Medica II and regen stack if you have two whms, but the galvanize effect of Adlo or Succor doesn't.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

@Parawill
I am extremely curious on why you consider Scholar better in an ideal situation, could you elaborate? (Since this is the internet....no sarcasm intended, just genuinely interested in what everybody thinks :) )

@Freyt
-Immensely vast MP supply means very little conservation unless people are doing it wrong.
-If the party is doing it wrong, the SCH is not the one to bring for the job, as everyone will probably die due to small party heals.

Don't you think these two scholar points of yours contradict each other?
If people are mucking up, should you not choose scholar due to their "Immensely vast MP supply means very little conservation unless people are doing it wrong" ?

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No. It depends on the severity of the situation.

If the situation is, every now and then someone takes a big hit, or even someone dies, and the tank does not take a whole lot of damage, then bring the scholar. If it's the whole party taking considerable amounts of damage, the Scholar will fall short. Scholars only big heals are Adloquium and Lustrate. Lustrate can only be used 3 times every 60 seconds and Adloquium has normal cast time and cannot heal the whole party in a short enough time to keep them alive. Succor will have to be cast so often, that with their vast amounts of MP they will run out, and the tank will die because they will be busy with the party instead of the tank.

They are different classes for a reason, because they are different. They cannot simply be compared, overall if you are picking one to play I recommend white mage, just me personally I love the class, scholar is more forgiving however if that is what you are looking for.

It seems to be a trend that whenever the then-latest Coil becomes farmable by some top-end FCs (instead of it being "work in the progress" -tier), people hop on the "SCHs are better at everything" -bandwagon. I will agree that you have a marginal edge in some situations by having dual-SCHs or even solohealing with a SCH instead of a WHM, but this is just a case of people knowing the fights through and through and the encounters being tank-healing-heavy with the occassional AOE-damage that a SCH can prepare for. In this kind of way, some of a WHM's raw healing power gets wasted, ie. with familiarity, and a SCH can shine more easily, especially with their DoT-fueled off-DPS and sustainability.

That being said...I honestly don't enjoy running stuff with another SCH - it's possible to synergize very well, but I feel like I can do my own thing easier if there is no one overlapping with me, hence a WHM compliments a SCH and their most common playstyles very well. It just is that simple: Regen uptime on the MT, AOE-heals of theirs with my support, 18% Stoneskins for the big buffering, enhanced Protect, the MND party-buff (that turns into an INT-advantage in Cleric's Stance, too). All of those are reasons I prefer healing with a WHM. Also, Savage Coil: the damage can be pretty ridiculous, especially in T6, so the raw healing output is definitely a lifesaver. More burst-healing-heavy content like that would be fun.