Non-consenting SR ruins dungeon runs

Title pretty much explains the point of my thread, or at least to outfront express my opinion on the matter first-off. Why does no one ever bother to ask "Hey, wanna sr?" or "Mind if we SR?". I rarely ever see a tank that won't completely ignore the complaints of their party members, just because they can't stand to be in a dungeon for a minute longer than they have to.

When they are butthurt enough to even report a party member for harassment for that person wanting to get a chest, it's going a bit too far.

So, what are your guys' take on SR runs? Should we be forced to bend over and take the assumption that SR's are the way of dungeoning now?

Reporting people for wanting to get a chest is going a bit too far, but I don't see a problem with the people that want to do several groups of monsters at once. It doesn't just speed things up, but as most dungeons are ilvl55 or so, it raises the level of challenge to something closer to what most people are actually geared to handle.

There definitely are a lot of people though that want to finish a dungeon as fast as possible though, because a good number of people aren't in the dungeon for fun, but they're there for the chore that is weekly tomes and roulettes.

It depends on the dungeon I guess. For example Brayflox Hard Mode is for most players by default a speed-run dungeon, they expect to go there and finish it fast.

I have no problems with speed runs as long as they are reasonable and reflect the ilevel of the team. I speed run Brayflox as both a Paladin and White Mage. If I am a PLD I will check the equipment of the healer to see how fast they can cope with because the main pressure on speed runs is on the healers.

It does make me laugh when I play as WHM and see clueless tanks try to pull more than they can handle and then blame the healer for not healing quickly enough (as if White Mages have an infinite number of Benedictions available...).

So, yes, I like speed runs but they need some common sense to work otherwise the party ends up wiping on multiple occasions and spends more time in the dungeon that they would have if they did a normal run!

Yup, the notion of "doing this dungeon quickly" is, by itself, not bad.

The problems begin occurring in any of the following situations, and probably more.

1. The Tank decides to mass pull without telling anybody.
2. A DPS/Healer takes it upon themselves, without warning, to pull extra mobs to the Tank just to "speed things up".
3. The Healer holds the party hostage unless they run it in a certain way.
4. A speedrun is agreed upon(ie. a majority of party members agree) without a DPS combo that can handle the largest pulls effectively.
5. A speedrun is agreed upon without looking at the Healer and seeing that they have an i55 weapon.
6. A speedrun is agreed upon with any number of new people in the dungeon.

While kicking can solve some, but not all, of these issues, the clear conclusion is that speedrunning should be something that the entire party agrees upon. Not simply a majority; the entire party.

As a tank, here's how I usually do things:

Low Level Dungeons

1. One group at a time, always. Level Sync largely disallows what I like to call "being dumb".
2. At the location of the first optional chest, ask if people want to go for it. If the consensus is no, skip all of them. If there's just one or zero Level 50 characters in with me, do a full clear without asking so the other members get their EXP.
3. If I'm currently leveling the Tank I don't have at 50(MRD), then I go out of my way to kill a few extra monsters, but usually not a full clear unless the second half of point 2 is satisfied.

Brayflox Specifically

1. Start the pulls off smaller than people generally want. If people complain "nicely", make them bigger. If people complain "antagonistically", stay static. If people really start attacking me, make them smaller.
2. (This rarely happens) If someone DCs from the dungeon in a thinly veiled attempt to get kicked, 3 man the dungeon.

I don't mind speed running if people want to but problems occur when you get people leaving or kicking because you don't have the right combination for a speed run. I have not done brayflox hard yet and need it for my animus book. I'm dreading it because I'll be new and running it with a friend. A Bard/dragoon combo is not going to be received well :( speed runs are great if you're a black mage but some classes get the short end of the stick.

How about non-consenting slow runs? Why must we get paired with people who play this game like they are a cashier at Macy's.

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Originally Posted by Sassi666

A Bard/dragoon combo is not going to be received well :( speed runs are great if you're a black mage but some classes get the short end of the stick.

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Not really, you can do it fine with bard and dragoon (just not as efficiently as with blm's obviously). Its monks that people want absolutely no part of in speed runs as they are the most inefficient dps in the game for such a run. They generally get the most ragequit out of people out of all the dps when people first zone into a brayflox dungeon. I personally love monk as its my favorite dps but honestly speaking they suck in dungeon speed running (and to a lesser extent dungeons period since u will constantly be losing GL stacks) which I guess is fair anyway since they are arguably the dps kings when it comes to single target boss type contents.

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Originally Posted by Staris

How about non-consenting slow runs? Why must we get paired with people who play this game like they are a cashier at Macy's.

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In the way you are using it, slow is relative. When we think about actual fact, a run in which enemies are pulled exactly one group at a time is a run performed at the intended pace for the dungeon. Doing something to slow this down, such as pulling enemies in somehow smaller numbers or dilly dallying between groups for no reason, creates a slow run. Likewise, a fast run is a run in which enemies are pulled in more than one group at a time and a speedrun is a run in which pulls are performed at the maximum level of what a party can handle.

There can be a stigma against slow runs, as those can only be reliably performed by trolls. Runs at a normal pace, however, should not receive a stigma, and the fact that they do is another reason that some people greatly dislike the speedrun mentality.

Just go back after the dungeon is complete and loot the missed coffers.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Just go back after the dungeon is complete and loot the missed coffers.

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^

Every single time. When Myth farms were going hot, I did that all the time after second boss in Bray HM. Let the kitteh pass go grab my free accessory out of the chest for some seals.

Ahhh...those were the days.

Syn

I don't have a problem with speed runs when I don't actually need the dungeon but please if someone asks for optional coffers or areas, or outright says they are new take the feedback as such and adjust. Also unless there is a mage or a Bard in your group mass pulling is not really going to do anything other than unnecessarily strain Healer/Paladin MP or TP in general.

So yeah all I ask for groups is to be considerate of the rest of the members. I don't typically mind a speed run unless I need the optional stuff personally but I am 1 person of 4 players.

Scenario of Stone Vigil hm some days ago:

1) people say hi to each other
2) healer start to cast protect, tank runs away
3) everybody start chasing tank who have pulled 2 groups of mobs already and tank them in farther corner for healer to reach
4) healer can't reach tank fast enough and party wipe
5) tank ragequit

I have no other description for tank other than - retard.
Half of "speed runners" are just plain stupid and unable to perform speed run as a default.

If you mass pull without tellong me first, I'll let you die. Especially if you're so obsessed with speed running thay you won't even let me cast protect and run away lol. Bye, I'll sit where I am and wait for you to spawn back.

I'll say it before in the 500 other threads about dungeon speedruns. Why wouldn't you want to do a dungeon quickly? I mean reporting someone for getting a chest is a bit much but otherwise I always assume dungeon runs through roulette will be a speedrun.

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Originally Posted by Sassi666

I have not done brayflox hard yet and need it for my animus book. I'm dreading it because I'll be new and running it with a friend. A Bard/dragoon combo is not going to be received well

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I wouldn't worry. I have done Brayflox HM in roulettes as a tank with any DPS combination that comes, no problems ever. Other thing are Party Finder Speed Run parties that may want some jobs.

isnt it not possible to SR the new dungeons?

The new dungeons basically have tools that prevent you from pulling too many mobs at once, however some people(like the OP) consider pulling more then 1 group of mobs a speed run, even though several jobs are meant for aoe damage over single target.

Purposely being lazy, and then complaining to the other players that you want them to preform at above average work so you can do less work. They want the mobs to die just as fast, they want the bosses to die just as fast as if we were in a speed run, meaning they expect the dps to preform over the top. However when it comes to them actually doing work, omg how dare we ask a tank to tank.

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Originally Posted by BBQsalty

isnt it not possible to SR the new dungeons?

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It's possible, but much harder to do so; all 3 of the new dungeons have some form of a roadblock that you must clear before you can progress, locking out trash mobs before boss fights is not an option, and the trash mobs are a lot stronger than the last set of hard mode dungeons so that pulling mass groups will get a tank killed fairly quickly or at least makes it difficult for healers to keep up.

Yesterday I was casting protect and tank was already far. And after Sjoorm (Hullbreaker Isle) when party still is recovering of fall, tank with little HP was already do other pull. I had luck in keep all alive.

It is stressing when tank thinks the healer is god and can do miracles.

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Originally Posted by Adler

1) people say hi to each other
2) healer start to cast protect, tank runs away
3) everybody start chasing tank who have pulled 2 groups of mobs already and tank them in farther corner for healer to reach
4) healer can't reach tank fast enough and party wipe
5) tank ragequit

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Kinda reminds me of a WAR tank I had a month ago who pulled the entire first room in Pharos Sirius (while I was still buffing the party). Couldn't keep them alive due to all the DoT's and the defence debuff they got. We wiped, he claimed I was a bad healer and then left before I could retort.

The party setup was: WAR, SCH, DRG and SMN.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

The new dungeons basically have tools that prevent you from pulling too many mobs at once, however some people(like the OP) consider pulling more then 1 group of mobs a speed run, even though several jobs are meant for aoe damage over single target.

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You obviously have not played as a Monk, have you?

I also refer to those that specifically pull as much of the room as they can in one go (if not more.... usually more). I honestly don't mind a couple of mobs at all, that I can handle. Frankly though, it's quite insulting that you'd make such a blatant lie to try to provide a point to your post.

People reporting players that go for chest will get in trouble. SE specifically said reporting has to be for a good reason.